2954, The Empire and the Senate

[NaffNaffBobFace]

There seems to be some appetite for discussing politics and systems of governance in the fora so to give that a game related out, it did occur to me I have little concept of exactly how the UEE runs its operation.

I know there is an Imperator and a Senate but how does this empire of 37 systems, hundreds of planets and thousands of settlements actually organise and orchestrate it's operations? Is it a classical Democracy? I know it's not a tyranny so what makes it work and why does Imperator Addison seemingly have such trouble getting anything done?

For context (and because we have nothing to compare it to other than real life, but please try to keep any comparisons game related) I reside in the UK where if a party gets a majority in the commons (and they all pull in the same direction) it can pretty much vote though anything it wants, pending vetting by the House Of Lords. There is no separate vote for Prime Minister, that is defacto whoever runs the winning party... Pretty streightforward...? Looking at the Empire it seems slightly different, I've looked at the US and the way it works where you can have a President from a different party to the House and Senate and it becomes a clash of ideology when trying to get anything done - is this a bit like how the UEE is set up?

Further to that how do the Banu, Xi'An and indeed the Vandu'ul organize their societies? What definition does a Souli fall under? the Outsiders on Lier? What do the Vandu'ul Clans classify as other than meat popsicles?

 

[NomadicHavoc]

I wager that the UEE functions through judicial use of the rock/paper/scissor methodology!

 

[NaffNaffBobFace]

Potentially! a random number generator or the in-game jumbo dice would be an interesting way of guiding a society.

 

[Han Burgundy]

One political thing that interests me about the Duul is: Why seek out conflict when space is rich in resources? Is battle part of their culture in the way that Klingons do?

A fun Endgame DLC would be finding out that the Vanduul are invading human space because they are RUNNING from....something. Squadron 42 II: The Dark Forest

 

[Mudhawk]

We may as likely assume that the Voyager mission crashed into the Vanduul's lawn and they did consider the recorded messages an act of aggression. Amongst others there is a german audio on that record saying „Herzliche Grüße an alle“ (Heartfelt greetings to everyone). German does not translate well into all languages. All people ever seem to hear is something like "Do you want total war?!"
Just a hunch though... :-P
Concerning the political structure of the empire... well, my guess is CIG wanted an EMPIRE as well as a REPUBLIC to cater to both sides (dark and light). I don't think they have already figured out how that actually is supposed to work out.

 

[Aramsolari]

CIG draws a lot of inspiration from the Roman Empire. The Romans went from Kingdom to Republic to Empire. I think the UEE went from Republic to hereditary Imperial Monarchy to more of a generic sci fi Empire where the leader is elected. The UEE at present is a huge bureaucracy/Senate that is propped up by a massive military and topped off with an Imperator with limited powers. I think that's by design due to the Messers.

The Roman Republic had its greatest periods of expansion during that period where ambitious Roman Generals saw conquest as a means to enrich themselves. Gaul, Iberia, Greece, North Africa, Asia Minor, etc. Most of these lands were conquered because the likes of Julius Caesar, Scipio Africanus, etc. were eager to conquer for the glory of Rome. That these men returned extremely wealthy is secondary of course lol.

I think the UEE is supposed to be a lumbering mass that suffers from corruption, crime, and inefficiency. Just like any real world Empire would. SQ42 plot speculation and all that, I do think the Admiral Bishop character is setting himself up to 'Save' the Empire. Of course how things will unfold after the immediate threat is over...well here's hoping for some good writing from CIG! Of course in real world history, Octavian (Augustus) emerged the victor in the aftermath of the power struggle post Caesar's assassination. First thing he did was the neuter the Senate and centralize power to himself in order to 'Save the Republic'. He was the one who seized the title of Imperator (Emperor) and the rest as they say is history.

 

[NaffNaffBobFace]

One political thing that interests me about the Duul is: Why seek out conflict when space is rich in resources? Is battle part of their culture in the way that Klingons do?

A fun Endgame DLC would be finding out that the Vanduul are invading human space because they are RUNNING from....something. Squadron 42 II: The Dark Forest

Interesting question... As if a spacefaring race wouldn't be able to mine and farm and trade to a sustainable level themselves... They supposedly have a nomadic clan society so perhaps the raiders are the clans pushed out of the richest pastures and go scavenging from neighbouring systems instead...

...maybe this is an unintended consequence of their Ibrihim Sphere technology? Now no Vandu'ul technically die due to resurrection what is that doing to their population and the sustainability of their resources?

And what, indeed, will it do to ours...?

 

[NaffNaffBobFace]

We may as likely assume that the Voyager mission crashed into the Vanduul's lawn and they did consider the recorded messages an act of aggression. Amongst others there is a german audio on that record saying „Herzliche Grüße an alle“ (Heartfelt greetings to everyone). German does not translate well into all languages. All people ever seem to hear is something like "Do you want total war?!"
Just a hunch though... :-P
Concerning the political structure of the empire... well, my guess is CIG wanted an EMPIRE as well as a REPUBLIC to cater to both sides (dark and light). I don't think they have already figured out how that actually is supposed to work out.

And the AI piloted Generation Ship Artimis which went missing with all hands may be conscious and out there somewhere - maybe on the far side of Vandu'ul space... What could it have become...?

 

[Aramsolari]

It’s a bit predictable but I’m hoping the Vandu'ul are not the greatest threat to the UEE and that there’s something worse out there that the Vandu'ul are trying to get away from.

Historically the Vandals (and other Germanic tribes) fled their homelands due to the Hun Invasion.

Would be cool to see an even more powerful, darker Power out there in the SQ42/SC Universe.

 

[NaffNaffBobFace]

CIG draws a lot of inspiration from the Roman Empire. The Romans went from Kingdom to Republic to Empire. I think the UEE went from Republic to hereditary Imperial Monarchy to more of a generic sci fi Empire where the leader is elected. The UEE at present is a huge bureaucracy/Senate that is propped up by a massive military and topped off with an Imperator with limited powers. I think that's by design due to the Messers.

The Roman Republic had its greatest periods of expansion during that period where ambitious Roman Generals saw conquest as a means to enrich themselves. Gaul, Iberia, Greece, North Africa, Asia Minor, etc. Most of these lands were conquered because the likes of Julius Caesar, Scipio Africanus, etc. were eager to conquer for the glory of Rome. That these men returned extremely wealthy is secondary of course lol.

I think the UEE is supposed to be a lumbering mass that suffers from corruption, crime, and inefficiency. Just like any real world Empire would. SQ42 plot speculation and all that, I do think the Admiral Bishop character is setting himself up to 'Save' the Empire. Of course how things will unfold after the immediate threat is over...well here's hoping for some good writing from CIG! Of course in real world history, Octavian (Augustus) emerged the victor in the aftermath of the power struggle post Caesar's assassination. First thing he did was the neuter the Senate and centralize power to himself in order to 'Save the Republic'. He was the one who seized the title of Imperator (Emperor) and the rest as they say is history.

Blimey more more out there than I could have expected! Now that's some tasty concept a Romanesque empire...

The Generals thing is super interesting, other than Bishop I can't think of any others than Messer who became a lineage of Imperitors, do you think we'll be introduced to more to flesh that out a bit?

I'm not massively up on my Roman history... how did the Empire come to a close in the end...?

 

[NaffNaffBobFace]

It’s a bit predictable but I’m hoping the Vandu'ul are not the greatest threat to the UEE and that there’s something worse out there that the Vandu'ul are trying to get away from.

Historically the Vandals (and other Germanic tribes) fled their homelands due to the Hun Invasion.

Would be cool to see an even more powerful, darker Power out there in the SQ42/SC Universe.

I saw in some lore post at some point the Xi'An are battling an unknown threat on the far side of their space, so potentially it could come from two directions...?

 

[NomadicHavoc]

A fun Endgame DLC would be finding out that the Vanduul are invading human space because they are RUNNING from....something. Squadron 42 II: The Dark Forest

If I remember correctly, I think that AstroPub stated that Squadron 42 is supposed to 1 of 3 games that CIG intends to release. He theorized that the Vanduul are not the big baddy of the galaxy and may indeed be afraid of something even worse. I hope you fellas are correct...

 

[Aramsolari]

Blimey more more out there than I could have expected! Now that's some tasty concept a Romanesque empire...

The Generals thing is super interesting, other than Bishop I can't think of any others than Messer who became a lineage of Imperitors, do you think we'll be introduced to more to flesh that out a bit?

I'm not massively up on my Roman history... how did the Empire come to a close in the end...?

Even though the Messers were booted out, that doesn’t mean the UEE is protected from future leaders with absolute power. When there is massive civil unrest and foreign threats, the grounds are always ripe for a dictator to emerge. It happened in Ancient Rome and in Revolutionary France. I’m quite sure that can happen in a fictional universe like the UEE too!

Rome fell due to a host of different factors. Civil unrest, crop failures, succession civil wars, corruption, etc. The list is pretty long. The English historian Edward Gibbon even argued that the Empire's conversion to Christianity was the primary reason for the decline. There is also the accepted theory (one that I subscribe to) that Rome took in too many auxiliaries into the Army. These were non Romans (read barbarian) who were trained, equipped, and paid by Rome. Due to a host of different reasons, Rome relied less and less on native Roman Legions and more on non-Roman auxiliaries. Naturally these troops had less loyalty and revolted whenever they felt mistreated by their employers. Odoacer the Germanic leader who sacked Rome in 476 was actually a General of the Foederati troops employed by Rome. In short he was a Roman officer who wasn't really Roman.

Netflix actually has a pretty fun series called 'Barbarians'. It's about Arminius, the Roman educated Germanic leader who defeated three Legions in the Battle of Teutoburg Forest. Emperor Augustus actually had a meltdown when he heard of the bad news. Interesting stuff and worth a look!

Way off topic aren't we? I do enjoy Roman history and it's something that I've always been fascinated with since I read those Asterix and Obelix comics when I was a kid! Glad to see CIG draw so much inspiration from Ancient Rome for their in-game universe!

 

[NaffNaffBobFace]

Even though the Messers were booted out, that doesn’t mean the UEE is protected from future leaders with absolute power. When there is massive civil unrest and foreign threats, the grounds are always ripe for a dictator to emerge. It happened in Ancient Rome and in Revolutionary France. I’m quite sure that can happen in a fictional universe like the UEE too!

Rome fell due to a host of different factors. Civil unrest, crop failures, succession civil wars, corruption, etc. The list is pretty long. The English historian Edward Gibbon even argued that the Empire's conversion to Christianity was the primary reason for the decline. There is also the accepted theory (one that I subscribe to) that Rome took in too many auxiliaries into the Army. These were non Romans (read barbarian) who were trained, equipped, and paid by Rome. Due to a host of different reasons, Rome relied less and less on native Roman Legions and more on non-Roman auxiliaries. Naturally these troops had less loyalty and revolted whenever they felt mistreated by their employers. Odoacer the Germanic leader who sacked Rome in 476 was actually a General of the Foederati troops employed by Rome. In short he was a Roman officer who wasn't really Roman.

Netflix actually has a pretty fun series called 'Barbarians'. It's about Arminius, the Roman educated Germanic leader who defeated three Legions in the Battle of Teutoburg Forest. Emperor Augustus actually had a meltdown when he heard of the bad news. Interesting stuff and worth a look!

Way off topic aren't we? I do enjoy Roman history and it's something that I've always been fascinated with since I read those Asterix and Obelix comics when I was a kid! Glad to see CIG draw so much inspiration from Ancient Rome for their in-game universe!

I don't think it's off topic at all there are things you've noted which seem to have parallel in the 'Verse :-)

Obviously the generals and the militaristic society, the Messers succession, there is a food shortage in at least one system which could easily spread out to others if there were a root cause such as pest or blight, but the aux issue I had no idea about and could easily see the conquered Tavarin, If the UEEN ever gets a big Tavar cohort with a powerful general, filling the same role that may be directly inspired with the same risk of sacking Old Earth or New Terra bringing destability...

Even the seeds for potential for Civil Wars between Old Earth and Progressive Terra were seen in the last Imperitor election as a candidate ran for moving the cultural centre from the ancestral home in Sol to the better connected Terra.

Such potential!

 

[Talonsbane]

My vote, for whatever it may count for if anything, is to resolve all conflicts between operational zones with a series of games BEERfest style, winner gets their way while the loser pays for the drinks. You've got to admit, despite all its flaws, this would be a much more civilized way than wars killing each other's people over somebody accidentally farting in the wrong direction thanks to a shift of wind.

 

[Talonsbane]

One political thing that interests me about the Duul is: Why seek out conflict when space is rich in resources? Is battle part of their culture in the way that Klingons do?

A fun Endgame DLC would be finding out that the Vanduul are invading human space because they are RUNNING from....something. Squadron 42 II: The Dark Forest

I suspect that it's more along the lines of the males of their people are horny as hell from all the travel with women that look like them. So they, like the vikings, seek out different civilizations to find breeding stock to enjoy & think about while having to mate with their women. "Pretty women make us buy beer, ugly women make us drink beer." (Al Bundy, Married with Children)

 

[NaffNaffBobFace]

My vote, for whatever it may count for if anything, is to resolve all conflicts between operational zones with a series of games BEERfest style, winner gets their way while the loser pays for the drinks. You've got to admit, despite all its flaws, this would be a much more civilized way than wars killing each other's people over somebody accidentally farting in the wrong direction thanks to a shift of wind.

May the odds forever be in your favour!