Anvil Liberator

Bambooza

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Still think this is an ideal strike platform for 3 Eclipse, 9 M50 and a Lancer MIS for overwatch. Hugely enhances your stealth attack range. Just CIG needs to replace the jump seats with bunks.
View: https://youtu.be/U8yTHduCMNc
The issue is CIG doesn't want this to be used for long mission durations. While I can see it being utilized like this out of a POI like GrimHex, I imagine most Liberators are going to be used to transport players' ships from point to point and not used for launching ships from.

So more this.

SuperyachtNews.com - Business - DYT-Sevenstar merger confirmed



Then this

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Shadow Reaper

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I think that's right, and begs the question why Anvil would nerf its own ship for the sake of a few bunks, that since they're stacked 3 high would take up no more space than the jumpseats. It's one of the crazier nerfs, and one I hope doesn't go into practice.
 

Bambooza

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I think that's right, and begs the question why Anvil would nerf its own ship for the sake of a few bunks, that since they're stacked 3 high would take up no more space than the jumpseats. It's one of the crazier nerfs, and one I hope doesn't go into practice.
Its not so much a nerf as a decision made to fit the ship into the overall game vision. From a real-world perspective, it doesn't make any sense as you would want to maximize the value of your vehicle as well as the reality that the oceans are huge and take a long time to cross (Another fun fact is most of those boats on the carrier still have their crew onboard who are doing maintenance and deep cleaning). But from a game perspective, you want to make clear easily defined roles so that it minimizes the learning curve. It's also why they spend so much time on making sure each ship has a unique easily identified silhouette so that you can identify the ships and their capability and roles before choosing to engage or dip out. It's also why ships like the Redeemer was so problematic and why we are not really seeing any new large multirole ships. For me, I see the Liberator being a direct answer to a problem faced in theaters of war and that was why it was fast-tracked, as it's a great way to bring in small ships to the map that doesn't break with the immersion.
 
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minor_accident

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I was Army vs. Navy, but from a military perspective see the Liberator as a more valuable asset for many situations. Unquestionably, the Bengal would be a more formidable formation, but also requires a far greater support and resource pool to operate. It's a little small for it, but if I were a UEN commander, I would view the Liberator class more like pocket carriers than transports. I would be looking at the Liberator more to provide air support assets for smaller combat formations, and less overwhelming brute force.

Reminiscent to how the BCT concept draws on the division-level capabilities into smaller entities, and creates a more agile, yet self-sustaining maneuver element. The Liberator could do the same. A scaled down carrier battlegroup, if you will. I think there's a lot of value potential there.
 

Shadow Reaper

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That's my position except that, lacking beds it is really not able to sustain a smallish group for an extended period of time. I just can't imagine why jumpseats and not bunks.

The Lib excels in that it requires just 2 players to run the thing, and if you need additionals to rearm ships, etc., you can take from the pilot pool. It's not wasting resources. It would be better if it were two meters wider, and there are lots of other things I could suggest, but the one that stands out is deliberately gimping its ability to support a squadron of pilots. There's nowhere to sleep. So we're left with the Kraken, and eventually if you spend an insane amount to refurbish it, an super-expensive Bengal. Why do that if for the same price and player pool you could field 20 Libs?

And yes, I think Bambooza has it right, but that doesn't mean I agree with the situation. CIG added cargo panels to the Valkyrie when sufficient people whined, but not to the Vanguard. It's obvious Aegis would build a couple cargo panels into that bird for whatever use, so why are there none? Because CIG doesn't want the Vanguard to be a do everything bird. No manufacturer would think that way, just as no manufacturer would build jumpseats into a transport when they could fit bunks.

Truth is, CIG should really reconfigure the port side of the ship to include sensible accommodations for 15 pilots, rather than the senseless mish-mash of accommodations found here:

Anvil Liberator.png
 
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minor_accident

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Agreed. I guess the ultimate question is: Is the Liberator a military, or civilian vessel? If it's civilian, then the jump seats make no sense. If it's military, then the jump seats still make no sense! Whatever it is, it's clearly not intended for LZ insertions. A small contingent of Marines? Sure! But at least enough rack-space for a couple Marines + a number of the pilots to hot-swap. A number of them would likely be flying a CAP anyway at any given time. I forgot about the Kraken, which would likely serve the pocket-carrier role better, but that still wouldn't diminish the potential of the liberator. I'm betting it would actually be fabulous used to provide a forward kick-off point for drop ships. Dudes below decks squadded up and ready to go, drop-ships rotating through the flight deck, picking them up and shuttling them to the front.

I don't know much about the Liberator back-story, but my thought is this HAS to be designed as a military vessel, it makes no sense any other way. It's a terrible design for a dedicated transport ship, and a massive waste of potential if it is. I certainly wouldn't want one if I were a space-trucker! And it doesn't carry enough fighters etc. if it were meant to replenish a full carrier to be worth the trouble.
 

RoosterRage

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I see multiple roles for this ship other than pure combat roles of light carrier and dropship that many have planned for it.
It has a tractor beam for loading/unloading its deck of ships which would make this ship an excellent recovery ship for damaged fighters, escape pods and downed pilots after a battle with a MPUV, and would also work nicely with the Crucible bringing 2 crippled fighters at a time to a rally point for repairs rather than the SRV's 1 ship at a time.
When working in this role it does not require more than 2 bunks and truth be told I think most players are not gonna waste their game time waiting for someone to log their ship on so that they can play because they logged out in someone else's ship bunk.
Ships like the Javelin are more geared for weekend events for larger orgs sorta like a raid and I know there is no way you are gonna get 80 players to stay on a ship and give up play time waiting for the owner to maybe play that day which makes bunks a non-issue for most players other than maybe a small group of friends and family that play together.
 

Richard Bong

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I think beds are over hyped. Unless they seriously change how distance travel works, the limiting factor is, highly likely, fuel range not duration.

The troop transports don't have beds for the passengers. The Genesis Starliner images have airliner seats for the majority of the passengers. I don't see the Liberator as needing beds either.

The Liberator is a civilian transport not a military strike craft. The military small strike carrier is the Idris, the civilian small strike craft is the Kraken. In military use the Liberator is bringing replacement craft, pilots and parts to the Idris, Bengal or Pegasus class ships, not running strike ops.

The Liberator is a RO-RO, like the Atlantic Conveyor not a light carrier like HMS Invincible.
 
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Richard Bong

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Sky Captain

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Nice find on that image, I agree. That's how I've been visualize the Liberator too.

The "15 beds for 15 pilots" carrier idea is cool but will require a huge new concept ship, IMHO. I want to look to the Idris as being that sized carrier. However, its capacity is small if it only hauls two fighters and an Argo (at twice the Liberator's price...)? I look to the Kraken next for that big carrier, but even it only hauls eight fighters? By comparison, the Liberator feels tiny.
 
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Richard Bong

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Nice find on that image, I agree. That's how I've been visualizing the Liberator too.

Intuitively I wan to look to the Idris as being the "15 pilots with 15 beds" carrier concept. But its a frigate that only carries 2 fighters and an Argo (at 2X the Liberator's price...)

That leaves the Kraken far and away the best carrier if it can truly haul 8 fighters.
For the sake of argument, I am not including space bikes as "craft."
The Liberator carries 2 fighters (XS Pads), 1 Snub (XXS pad), and 2 "medium" ground vehicles. The Liberator is not set up to carry 15 craft, much less 15 pilots, in fact no player ship (so far) is designed to carry 15 craft.
The Idris is 3 fighters (XS) and an Argo. The Argo has its own bay (XXS).
The Kraken is 2 Size XS hangars and 4 size XS pads (Carrier Fighters/Bombers) plus 2 pads that hold the next size up (Small? Medium? whatever they want to call it.) and a bay to carry Dragonflies.
The Idris, and the Kraken, unlike the Liberator, are designed to deploy a strike mission and are designed for combat operations, while the Liberator is a transport craft designed to move small craft and vehicles from point A to point B. The Idris also carries its strike group internally, giving the strike group protection as well as allowing the strike group to be rearmed, refueled and repaired while the ground crews are protected.
 
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Richard Bong

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Nice find on that image, I agree. That's how I've been visualize the Liberator too.

The "15 beds for 15 pilots" carrier idea is cool but will require a huge new concept ship, IMHO. I want to look to the Idris as being that sized carrier. However, its capacity is small if it only hauls two fighters and an Argo (at twice the Liberator's price...)? I look to the Kraken next for that big carrier, but even it only hauls eight fighters? By comparison, the Liberator feels tiny.
The Atlantic Conveyor from the rear. The ramp is to be able to drive on and off with vehicles.
atlantic-conveyor_8215534_129804_XLarge.jpg (2560×1707) (fleetmon.com)

The Atlantic Conveyor in normal service.
atlantic-conveyor_8215534_1155855_Large.jpg (1920×1277) (fleetmon.com)
 

Shadow Reaper

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The Liberator carries 2 fighters (XS Pads), 1 Snub (XXS pad), and 2 "medium" ground vehicles. The Liberator is not set up to carry 15 craft, much less 15 pilots, in fact no player ship (so far) is designed to carry 15 craft.
Yes well, they put 16 jump seats in this craft, so they're set up for life support of at least 18-20. The three pads are about 26m wide, and the Eclipse is only 20m long so it appears at this point they will fit parked sideways, and I'm guessing 9 M50's will fit inside. Add a Lancer MIS to the docking collar and you have room for a small strike team.
 

Richard Bong

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Yes well, they put 16 jump seats in this craft, so they're set up for life support of at least 18-20. The three pads are about 26m wide, and the Eclipse is only 20m long so it appears at this point they will fit parked sideways, and I'm guessing 9 M50's will fit inside. Add a Lancer MIS to the docking collar and you have room for a small strike team.
It is designed with two XS pads, one XXS pad and two medium ground vehicle pads. The front pad is both shorter and narrower. I'm not saying fitting more craft is impossible, but the Liberator is designed for no more than 3 transported pilots, (and other passengers) regardless of how many craft you stack on there.

The, up to, 16 people carried are designed to be passengers, not crew so don't need bunks.

Your use case might be possible, but it is definitely, and clearly, outside the designed purpose of the ship.

A C5 can carry six Apache Helicopters, that doesn't mean it is designed to deploy and recover those attack helicopters in flight.
 

Shadow Reaper

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Your use case might be possible, but it is definitely, and clearly, outside the designed purpose of the ship.
Certainly. It's intended as a ground vehicle transport, but that's what makes the notion edgy and cool. It's the smallest strike unit I can see apart form squadrons of Vanguard, and 3 Eclipse do a LOT more damage than smallish groups of Harbingers.
 
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Richard Bong

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It isn't so much a ground vehicle transport as it is a general transport. It is what my better half and I intend to use to move our base of operations and to enable longer distant bounties with our Hawks.

My point is, that it may handle your use case, but that isn't the design purpose of the ship so changing the design to accomodate your use case doesn't seem likely.
 
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