Are there any advantages of having multiples of the same ship?

Lorddarthvik · Aug 2, 2019

Esctasy said:
Last week I started getting back into SC, I was looking at my fleet config and I have many ships that have multiple copies. At some point I must have thought this was a good idea, but now thinking about it, I have no idea what the purpose of having multiples of the same ship.

Yes if you have 2 of the same ship you can avoid the insurance timer, but is there any reason to have more than 2 of the same ship? Any advantage at all? Other wise I have to nuke my fleet and start over.

An example is I really like the Sabre, I like the default weapon setup and it looks super cool. But I have 5 copies of it, is that a waste or there some advantage of having that many copies (if it is one of your fav ship lets say)?

Interesting question!
Thinking about it I can only come up with theories as the gameplay mechanics are still too much in the "alpha" phase and a lot of it will probably change.
Maybe one good reason to keep multiples is that you can store them at different locations you like to visit, so you don't have to worry about getting your ships to these locations. Could be useful sometimes.
Also, unless you want to leave them stock, you can modify them differently. Outfit one with more energy weapons and the other one with ammo based weapons, or some such difference in mods. It could end up being useful I guess?
Also also, different paint jobs, different unique identifiers for the ships, and thus you could have one for legal and one for illegal business maybe?
Frankly most of this is just speculations on what was promised as features in the future. With the current system of cheap and fast insurance claims, there is no point to any of it really. If you don't have the ship on location, you just claim it and wait a bit, and as far as I know, criminal rating is bound to the player, not the ship.

Shadow Reaper · Aug 2, 2019

Yes, there should eventually emerge excellent reasons to have multiple copies of identical ships. We've been told that we will be able to hire NPC pilots, and that NPCs can be squaded together, and that NPCs can fly escorts. So although it is doubtful that you can send NPCs on their own missions, there are reasons to hope once Squadron 42 is out, that the advanced AI enabled in game from this will make some ships' squading a real thing. (Obviously, the Vanduul need to be able to do this.) CIG has not promised, but they have eluded to the notion that single players may be able to control entire squadrons of ships. Else why have NPC pilots under the command of PCs?

IF THIS REALLY HAPPENS, then there arises huge reason to squad similar or identical ships. For instance you might fly a squadron of Reliant Sens off a Star G in order to explore. We know Sens will have the refueling probe and we don't know whether ships without it can refuel in space. You also might run Tanas off a Beerfarer as escorts to keep it safe. I can tell you the Star G has terrible blind spots that any player can exploit, but if it had several Tanas flying escort, it would become a very hard target. Tanas are nice because the NPC pilots don't need to be able to fly very well. They have 16 S2 missiles at their command, and the missiles should use the same AI as PC launched missiles. So keep the humble Tana in mind. BTW, she carries 6 S2 guns now, and is not nearly as fragile as used to be.

View: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Tm3mLjrswMs

You might own an entire squadron of Eclipse, that hires out for silent strikes. A single Eclipse is not a huge threat, but half dozen of them certainly would be.

And of course the point of the Vanguard in SC lore is that it is the ultimate long range strike platform. For it to be that, you can't team it with ships that don't have the same range, speed, or survivability. It's key to note that players have favorites and immature players will want to fly whatever they choose in group engagements, but cooperative players will fly what works best for the team. So for many kinds of missions large groups of Vanguards only could be the way to go. They're faster than the Polaris will be, and in packs perhaps even more deadly. My hope is if you fly second seat in the Sentinel, you can coordinate strikes for as many escorting Harbingers as you'd like. If you're specializing in boarding from Hoplites, it would be great to have additional Harbingers along as fire support, etc. Only time will tell just how advanced CIG makes this part of the game.

In the meantime, buy and fly whatever you want whenever you want. You can always change what you own.

Vavrik · Aug 2, 2019

Some good points made.

This is more a personal preference than anything. I personally don't see much use for having 5 ships of the same type, but yeah certainly having 2 of a favorite ship can come in handy. If it's a ship you can change the loadout of, you'd get more mileage from having more than 2. I don't think the Saber has much option there though. I guess it depends what you think might be in the pipeline too. They have value for upgrading, trade, sell etc.. Upgrading is a bit of a crap shoot right now though.

@Shadow Reaper, I'm not putting quite so much stock in NPC crew and pilots without some evidence that their AI is smarter than what we see right now... What they exhibit right now is what we used to call "on rails". CIG named their AI tool Subsumption - I am hoping they are not limiting themselves to a rehash of reactive AI, like from the '90's. Same name and if you look at the videos CIG uses, it LOOKS like a flow diagram from back then... Not saying anything other than "Prove it" to CIG.

Shadow Reaper · Aug 2, 2019

Yeah. No matter what they do with NPCs, PCs will always be better.

OTOH, it doesn't take much from AI to fly in formation and launch missiles on command. Actually, I am thinking AI could be better at formation flying, and obeying orders than real pilots. If that's true those are probably the only things they're better at. Given the strategic role of bombers, and that you really don't want to mix it up in a dogfight, the Vanguard will likely be a great test case, since that's what SQ 42 is based on.

August · Aug 2, 2019

Shadow Reaper said:
Yeah. No matter what they do with NPCs, PCs will always be better.

Spoken like a man who has never watched Montoya pilot anything.

Vavrik · Aug 2, 2019

August said:
Spoken like a man who has never watched Montoya pilot anything.

Sigh. Or Vavrik and that is not a joke. lol. Good reasons though, well bad reason but it's... nvm... Lemme go to bed so I don't dig myself a hole.

August · Aug 2, 2019

Vavrik said:
Sigh. Or Vavrik and that is not a joke. lol. Good reasons though, well bad reason but it's... nvm... Lemme go to bed so I don't dig myself a hole.

Quite right, you have spaceships you can smash into the ground which will do the digging for you.

Thalstan · Aug 2, 2019

NPCs will not fly your ships without you on them. That means you won’t be able to put an NPC pilot in your Sabre. But, you can hire an NPC pilot that has their own Sabre.

Vavrik · Aug 2, 2019

Esctasy said:
On one hand, some think we can use our own ships and hire escort NPC pilots, on the other hand we can only hire NPC to help on a multi crew ship. Anyone know which it is? Or is it still up in the air right now?

I think it's kind of up in the air.

I don't think it is very wise to depend on NPC's to do much more than fill an empty seat. They CAN point and shoot but only because they can point and shoot faster than we can. CIG can tweek their reaction times to super human, they can begin to react before you receive the next network packet if CIG wants.

NaffNaffBobFace · Aug 2, 2019

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Esctasy said:
On one hand, some think we can use our own ships and hire escort NPC pilots, on the other hand we can only hire NPC to help on a multi crew ship. Anyone know which it is? Or is it still up in the air right now?

Edit: Here is my dilemma, I have 5 of each of Defender, HeartSeeker, Santok, Sabre, Hurricane, Eclipse, and 12 Vanguards. I don't like the light ships like Aurora/Mustangs/Cyclones in my game packages so I upgraded them. Now, if there is never any need to have more than 2 of the same ship then I have to redo my fleet :(

Reasons that I can think of for the game in the past or as it is right now:

- Skipping the insurance timer: fly one, claim one, store one. Beware when "Death of a spaceman" comes along there will be no infinite respawns, this is short-term before that mechanic comes in. In the final game the intention is once you've had too many close shaves, you dead and your gear goes to your next-of-kin in your will (you have to make a new character and loose reputation gains etc).

- Spare parts 1: If a ship had a component you wanted in all of your rides and it was not available anywhere else, buying lots of the same ship was the only way to get it e.g. the SuckerPunch guns off the Avenger.

- Spare parts 2: With misfires coming, having a boneyard of parts and hulls that aren't going to let you down could be an advantage.

- Multiple component setups on the same ship: You feel like mono-boating the Omnisky IV? Suddenly change your mind and want all Panthers? Either spend ages shuffling guns around or just take out that version of your favorite ride.

- Setting up your own Org: Orgs need ships, good ships. Having 12 Vanguard would make a decent Defense Force Org if you all rode out in the same instance, it would just take ages to spawn all the craft.

Reasons that I can theorycraft for the game as it may eventually be:

- Have NPC's crew as wingmen for you: If you have no friends NPC's may be the only way to form a possee to go slap that moron who's been pad-camping Olisar. (Not confirmed as being possible in the final game, only theorycraft.) But you're in TEST so you'll always have bods ready to roll out with you!

- Sell the hulls: in the finished game get down Crazy Bobs Used Ship Sales for a phat stack of UEC and become hyper rich over night. (Not confirmed as being possible in the final game, only theorycraft.)

- Hireing your ships to other players: Rent your spares for a cut of their profits, imagine a new player takes a mission that is too much for their crappy Mustang so they need something with more muscle. You have a mighty Vanguard so hire it to them for 20% of their earnings + repair costs. They get the rep and at least 50% of the pay depending on how bad they ding your ship, you get free money off the back of someone elses play time. If you have LTI there is little to no risk, especially if you have 12 of that ship. (Not confirmed as being possible in the final game, only theorycraft.)

In regard to your fleet build, it has been hypothesised that pooling your pledges into some Capital Ships may be a better plan, as it is going to take longer to earn them in game. I took that on board and now have an Endeavor with hangar to cart my other ships around in.

Printimus · Aug 2, 2019

Not really

Crymsan · Aug 2, 2019

As has already been said largely it would depend on how NPCs ends up. Lots of things have been said but lets see how that ends up as lots of things change in development.

Jump limits and stuff could mean its a pain to jump with lots of different size ships.

I don't think the insurance queue is an issue for anyone who has got enough ships to get two of something. If you only want to mine for instance then yeah maybe owning two orions (this ship may have a long return time) would be beneficial.

If true persistence is a thing then having two fighters in two places (since they are short range currently) and flying in between with something better suited for long distance might have a benefit. Clearly you then could have a favourite so get two of same rather than two different.

Lots of mechanics still very undeveloped so I do not have any doubles personally but then star citizen is unusual as at launch ( not just launch the ship the myth of the game launching) at least you need a specialist ship to do any specialist roll otherwise you cannot even try it. (Yes longer term you can buy in game).

Mich Angel · Aug 2, 2019

I can only say my reason to have more than one or similar of a ship.
It would be ships that I use a lot or are favorite/s so if one get destroyed I can spawn no:2 when no:1 is being reclaimed and skip the fee to speed up the reclaim.

Other than that I can 't see reason to have more than one of each or similar unless you plane to have ship you can lend out to org mates or those you play with most.
I rather have a good variety of ships so I can do anything that I might like doing or have the option to do anything dependent on what I feel doing that day.

I would focus first and foremost on building a fleet that suit your possible need in game play you might want to do now or later.
When that is done any other or more ships is just enhancing your options.

CHEERS!

Shadow Reaper · Aug 2, 2019

Esctasy said:
I have 5. . .Eclipse, and 12 Vanguards.

Regardless of what happens with NPCs, I think you'll be able to man all those at once. If you get involved in the Sons of Orion storyline, there will always be Vanduul targets to hit. I think here at TEST you'd find a long list of folks who would enjoy manning all those ships and more on strike missions. The question really becomes whether these are a better platform than the Polaris.

If I were looking to take down a Kingship in the Orion sector, I think I'd want Polaris, Vanguards, Eclipse, Sabres and a couple Lancer MIS for fire support against the fighters, all flying the same mission but in different roles. (And in fact I am extremely interested in this.) So you could count me in and I know quite a few folks who would love that kind of regular gameplay. It should not only yield in-game financial rewards, but fame as well. There is some reputation dynamic involved with the SoO storyline, that makes heros. I can do that! Much more detail about the SoS storyline should come available with the release of SQ 42.

If anything I'd look to add more Eclipse as they come available, and focus primarily on finding players, partnering with Polaris owners with an interest in SoO, etc. Using a Polaris to refuel the Eclipse will make them more potent in deep penetration missions.

Just IMHO, I doubt there will ever be a single, "safe" way to take down a Kingship. You should expect a shit ton load of fighters flying screen, so half the mission is dealing with them. The simplest way is probably launching Dominator IIls from 20 km from Polaris, Lancers and Vanguards, which means you need spotters--the Sabres. And that only gets you half way through the battle! The Eclipse can't even get involved until the fighter screen is gone, and once they launch, they're done and need to leave the battlefield.

12 Vanguard. . .now I am jealous!

Mich Angel · Aug 2, 2019

I agree, there wont ever be a safe way to handle a Kingship ha ha

One Polaris will look like a aurora against a Kingship think you'd need a 20 - 30+ or even more if that even do anything to a King ship.

Polaris said to be 155 meters we know already it grown a bit, but even if it got to be around 170 meters the Kingship is over 1.5 Km long
Polaris; Eclipse missiles on that would be like bugs on the windshield going down the freeway ha ha ha...

CHEERS!

Crymsan · Aug 2, 2019

I look forward to when the server can handle a fight against a kingship. Until then its a cut scene at best in squadron 42 when your lone aurora hits the weak spot with a missile!

ShakyWater · Aug 2, 2019

If we can't hire NPCs to fly ships for us, a lot of people are gonna have a lot of ships collecting dust. But I think we should be able to do that.

I don't know if five is better than two, but two is better than one.

Are there any advantages of having multiples of the same ship?

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