Carrack Gold Pass

Shadow Reaper

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I was reading in one of the various FB SC groups the other day, and when someone mentioned the Carrack, another player spewed “my 600i would tear it up with 3X Deadbolts!” It shocked me for a moment. Is the beloved Carrack really that vulnerable?

Turns out no. The Carrack has far less firepower, but three times the hull and 30% more speed than the 600i. Still, it left me uneasy thinking how this military vessel would best run and hide from a luxury yacht.

For the first time I find myself sympathetic with giving the Carrack pilot guns or some missiles. Anyone else feel that way and what would you think fair? If it had a pair of S7 Hellion missiles strapped to the exterior, would that bring balance to the Force? Could that be an option for one of the modules?
 
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BUTUZ

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2 x S5 on the carrack would be sensible. But CIG aint sensible when it comes to weapon balance I mean just look a the shit show that is the corsair??
 

Shadow Reaper

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It’s funny you mention the Corsair. I like the layout and feel of that ship more than any other to date, but it flies so terribly I would just never own one. It handles like a garbage scow. So there really is some balance there. It’s a great Merc ride but requires a top pilot to say to the crew what the ship CANNOT do. It requires pirates actually be good at their job or they’re just wasting time. IIRC, the Corsair Is slower than everything in its class but the Tally, and if it attacked that it would get what bad pirates deserve.

Guns ain’t everything.
 

Bambooza

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I was reading in one of the various FB SC groups the other day, and when someone mentioned the Carrack, another player spewed “my 600i would tear it up with 3X Deadbolts!” It shocked me for a moment. Is the beloved Carrack really that vulnerable?

Turns out no. The Carrack has far less firepower, but three times the hull and 30% more speed than the 600i. Still, it left me uneasy thinking how this military vessel would best run and hide from a luxury yacht.

For the first time I find myself sympathetic with giving the Carrack pilot guns or some missiles. Anyone else feel that way and what would you think fair? If it had a pair of S7 Hellion missiles strapped to the exterior, would that bring balance to the Force? Could that be an option for one of the modules?
I wouldn't mind the carrack having more weapons but I don't understand this need to make every ship have pilot controlled weapons in fact I'd push for any multicrew ship over 3 not have any pilot controlled weapons
 

Talonsbane

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While the Carrack lacks pilot controlled weapons, it will have more defensive measures than the others in the form of its armor (along its hull as well as collapsible over its cockpit canopy) & potentially its drones might also be able to be equipped with weapons for additional defense if CIG ever approves of that idea. Just my thoughts on the matter.
 

FZD

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Still, it left me uneasy thinking how this military vessel would best run and hide from a luxury yacht.
This is a M35A3 Military Truck. Notice the distinct lack of a 120mm main cannon.
M35A3MilitaryTruck.png


Just because something is used by the military, doesn't mean it has to be heavily armed. Carrack, for example, serves more of an exploration than an engagement function.

Also, M35A3 would probably avoid Toyota pickup trucks 3a93291e-ded3-47c5-b6b8-4190414a89e8_2560x1067.jpg, unless escorted.
 

NaffNaffBobFace

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It’s funny you mention the Corsair. I like the layout and feel of that ship more than any other to date, but it flies so terribly I would just never own one. It handles like a garbage scow. So there really is some balance there. It’s a great Merc ride but requires a top pilot to say to the crew what the ship CANNOT do. It requires pirates actually be good at their job or they’re just wasting time. IIRC, the Corsair Is slower than everything in its class but the Tally, and if it attacked that it would get what bad pirates deserve.

Guns ain’t everything.
The Corsair is weird, it's weighed down with shootahs but not manuverable enough to really be able to bring them to bear on anything which isn't a Caterpillar or Starfarer...

...talking of the 'Farer I did try to take a SF into a few dogfights (solo), it's got 4x s4 at pilot control and missiles on the Gemini but it just can't turn fast enough to make much use of them. In one PvE against pirates I ended up running around the ship trying to jump in a turret to have a better chance of hitting anything.
 

Richard Bong

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I was reading in one of the various FB SC groups the other day, and when someone mentioned the Carrack, another player spewed “my 600i would tear it up with 3X Deadbolts!” It shocked me for a moment. Is the beloved Carrack really that vulnerable?

Turns out no. The Carrack has far less firepower, but three times the hull and 30% more speed than the 600i. Still, it left me uneasy thinking how this military vessel would best run and hide from a luxury yacht.

For the first time I find myself sympathetic with giving the Carrack pilot guns or some missiles. Anyone else feel that way and what would you think fair? If it had a pair of S7 Hellion missiles strapped to the exterior, would that bring balance to the Force? Could that be an option for one of the modules?
If you're trying to fly the Carrack as a fighter, you're doing it wrong.
The Carrack doesn't need pilot guns.
The pilot should be spending his time maneuvering and running.
 

BUTUZ

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I fly every ship like a fighter tho

Even my starfarer gemini???
 

Shadow Reaper

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Well this is my point. A military vessel should not be so low armed it needs to run from a luxury yacht. If it had a pair of S7 torps, it would not need to. The 600i drivers would leave it alone. There’s plenty of room to strap a pair of S7 torps to the outside of one of the three Carrack modules. Problem solved for all but drunken Beerfarer pilots, who everyone knows will chase anything in a skirt.
 

Richard Bong

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Well this is my point. A military vessel should not be so low armed it needs to run from a luxury yacht. If it had a pair of S7 torps, it would not need to. The 600i drivers would leave it alone. There’s plenty of room to strap a pair of S7 torps to the outside of one of the three Carrack modules. Problem solved for all but drunken Beerfarer pilots, who everyone knows will chase anything in a skirt.
To be fair the 8 size 4 guns and snub are enough to deal with the yacht if the crew is worth a damn. According to Erkul, the Carrack almost doubles the dps of the 600i.

The Carrack's superior Armor also come into play in that matchup. But with these two ships why would you bother, neither is supposed to be looking for a fight.
 

Bambooza

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Since when has the trust fund kid not started crap thinking they got this after a few drinks? And it's not like we are known to be a sobrietas bunch.

But on a more serious note I imagine after a few more balance passes no one will be happy and thus cig will be able to say its perfect.

Not sure the carrack needs torpedoes as it's dual turrets do a fair amount of damage if the pilot does their job keeping them both on target.
 

Garonman

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But. . .but, I wanna love the Carrack and I don’t. Maybe after the drones and modules are working. Does anyone know when modularity comes if it comes for the Carrack and Vanguard, or is it just the Tally?
I think when modulation becomes a thing it won't be across the board so I suspect its the tally first. Others such as the carrack that will also need other things implemented, I.e the drones, will get put at the back of the module release list.
 

Richard Bong

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But. . .but, I wanna love the Carrack and I don’t. Maybe after the drones and modules are working. Does anyone know when modularity comes if it comes for the Carrack and Vanguard, or is it just the Tally?
Just the Tali to start.
Vanguard will probably be shortly afterwards, since the modules are already in the build. (At least they told us the modules were seperate geometry from the rework videos.)

AFAIK, they haven't even hinted they know what modules the Carrack will have as options, expect that to be later.

I expect the Galaxy to be third. If the 600i didn't need the rework, that would probably be third.

They showed white box for some Cat modules, that may be third or fourth, but I wouldn't hold my breath.

I think the biggest drawback, (balance trick), for modules is going to be moving them where you need them and swapping them.
 

Richard Bong

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This is a M35A3 Military Truck. Notice the distinct lack of a 120mm main cannon.
View attachment 25497

Just because something is used by the military, doesn't mean it has to be heavily armed. Carrack, for example, serves more of an exploration than an engagement function.

Also, M35A3 would probably avoid Toyota pickup trucks View attachment 25498, unless escorted.
IS the M-35 really the truck you want to use as an example? :) They have been equipped with turret rings and 50 cals since WWII. But in Viet Nam that wasn't enough so...

View: https://youtu.be/ZXUkmUXvNls?si=xMUyeiwUxWKN09SP

Note that one in five of Duce and a Halfs, and Five Tons had turret rings with a 50 cal mount when I was in which was a while after Viet Nam.
 
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FZD

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IS the M-35 really the truck you want to use as an example? :)
Yes, it's a great example. Not only can you see how not every military vehicle comes with a gun (particularly when you then turn around and sell those vehicles to civilians), but M35 has plenty of variants so you can draw further analogues with SC.

Not to mention I just recently learned that even when some M35s were fitted with a 50 cal (and not driver controlled either), that was insufficient which kinda seems to jibe very well with this thread.
 
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Richard Bong

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Yes, it's a great example. Not only can you see how not every military vehicle comes with a gun (particularly when you then turn around and sell those vehicles to civilians), but M35 has plenty of variants so you can draw further analogues with SC.

Not to mention I just recently learned that even when some M35s were fitted with a 50 cal (and not driver controlled either), that was insufficient which kinda seems to jibe very well with this thread.
They do sell the M35 with the turret ring surplus and you can buy the ring separately.
While what you say makes sense from one perspective, unlike in Star Citizen a simple field modification to the M35 arms it with, most I've seen, up to five 50 cals. A quad (M45) AAA in the back plus the turret ring.
The B-25 had field modifications in the Pacific adding multiple .50 al pilot weapons and even a 75mm Tank gun. It was so successful that they started coming from the factory that way. (The factory edition had eight .50 and a 75.)
If we're allowing this type of field modification, you'll see a size 7 pilot controlled weapon on a Carrack. :)
 
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BUTUZ

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I think the problem also is that you are arguing about world war 2 technology really yet SC is supposed to be many decades in advance of that yet were still arguing about the same old thing when really weapons would have moved on leaps and bounds .........weve already got ballistic gatling turrets that can shoot multiple missiles in multiple directions down miles out and laser turrets that can melt small drones mid air - and yet in star citizen we got to run to the back of the ship load it full of 50 cals and hope it lasts longer than 120 seconds at one target whilst taking up an entire 5 minutes of one mans time just for that little effect? :/
 

Shadow Reaper

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Yeah. Seems CIG is much more focused on forcing team work than making sense. The B-29’s remote turrets actually worked better than the B-17’s manned turrets and removing people from turrets requires armoring far less of the ship. So manned turrets don’t make sense at all. Neither does moving their stations off the bridge since this causes communications complexities. Still, manned turrets look cool. So we got ‘em.

BTW, no turrets ever worked well, which is why no contemporary bombers include them.
 
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