Choosing a Home Defense Weapon

[Phil]

It would be easier to digest all your leftist drivel if you weren't routinely so ignorant. Seriously man, you make no sense. "earn rights" What planet are you from?

The only people who believe such tripe are past discussing with. Facts are quite unnecessary to you, now aren't they? You just make them up. Maybe, just MAYBE there is one small child here who is vulnerable to your tripe, but I doubt it.

Why would you think anyone cares what you support? Apart from ruining this thread by vioating the TOS here at TEST (just like you did yesterday with your Trump rants), what is it you think you accomplished? Okay so players know now to steer clear of you, but apart from that, what do you think your partisan rants accomplish?

So its ok to litter the forums with talks about guns but any other discussion is a violation of TOS, maybe people don't want to see the gun BS either, you ever think of that? Do you ever think someone on here may have direct personal experiences with guns and death? And the first thing we see on the forums is hey go buy this badass shotgun lol. I will make a deal with you, keep your pro gun nut BS out of the forums and I will keep my anti gun nut responses out as well. :)

This topic shouldn't even be in the General tab anyways, this is way off topic. TOS says anything Objectionable btw and I find gun talk Objectionable.

 

[Shadow Reaper]

I don't think so. I don't make deals with thugs. I find more effective means to cope with them. You are not going to blackmail me into editing or censoring, or cancelling my opinions. I am however going to clearly demonstrate that you think like a small child, and should be treated as such, especially when you speak of "earning rights".

Phil, we've all had enough of the witless wonders on the left, leaving our cities to burn. That's why people are buying firearms in recond numbers. It's becasue of jackasses like you, acting the way you are acting here--like a thug.

 

[Phil]

I don't think so. I don't make deals with thugs. I find more effective means to cope with them. You are not going to blackmail me into editing or censoring, or cancelling my opinions. I am however going to clearly demonstrate that you think like a small child, and should be treated as such, especially when you speak of "earning rights".

Awww, my feelings are hurt :( Guess you better go buy that shotgun, sounds like things are getting serious over there! ;)

 

[Phil]

"It would be easier to digest all your leftist drivel if you weren't routinely so ignorant. Seriously man, you make no sense. "earn rights" What planet are you from?"

I just want to clarify something and then I am done, I will no longer post on non SC issues from here on out or this point kick me out of the Org I really don't care.

When I say "earn" earn has many meanings, to earn something, deserve, warrant, merit, justify to earn the rights we were given, I am not questioning the right to own firearms itself, this is 100% clear we do have that right, but what have we done to earn that right, to keep that right? We have become a society that forgot what a privilege is, to earn something, what people fought and died for to give us those rights, we owe them a debt of responsibility and acknowledgement that we understand these rights were not just something we give to people because its theirs, we give them because we earned them and deserve them and they are as much a constant responsibility as they are a right. I think we forget the privileges and sacrifices that gave us those rights. The fact that we refuse to even discuss ideas that would save lives, children's lives because of some piece of metal and plastic proves we don't deserve the rights we were given. And I am sure many disagree. But lets ask the families of the fallen if they agree, the ones whose voices should matter the most are the voices mostly drowned out with talks of 2nd Amendment and fear mongering like "taking all your guns away" the people who have lost the most in this country seem to matter the least and that to me is disgusting and shameful.

So when I say earn those rights, I am not questioning the right itself but the moral aspect as human beings and Americans who do nothing to deserve the rights we were given, we pound our chests and yell ITS OUR RIGHT! We should be ashamed of ourselves but instead like you said, mass shootings in this country actually drive gun sales up, exponentially actually. One has to wonder what the founding fathers would think if they could see the number of Americans that die every year to gun violence, whether its mass shootings or suicide or a child accidentally getting a hold of their parents gun. I personally think the shock alone would send them right back to the grave or perhaps they rewrite the 2nd Amendment. I seriously doubt men of such vision would just walk away and say "its our right".

 

[BUTUZ]

Patience, Politeness, Friendliness. These are my home defence weapons...........................



....................... oh i thought you meant home defence from the missus.

 

[Thalstan]

the answer I would give is...baseball bat or a piece of pipe. I know my house, the thieves do not. I know the spots they can’t see and where I can swing a bat or smash them in the face, solar plexus, stomach, groin, or even foot.

a nice throwing knife is good too, or a good tactical knife.

if you want to keep people out though, get a dog or two that will bark.

most burglars will not go into a house with a dog. Too many better options. Remember, they want an easy target, as long as your neighbor looks like an easier target than you, your house will be fine.

the only thing I need to protect in my house is my family. If I can get them out, I will. If I can’t, We will retreat to where I can make a defensive stand. Everything else is insured and can be replaced. I do not need to be judge, jury, and executioner for some idiot that breaks into my house.

 

[Aramsolari]

Let's be nice guys.

There are people here from all over the World with different laws and views regarding firearms for or against. I respect that. Personally I support ownership but I also support sensible gun laws and gun control. I also believe that in an idea environment, we shouldn't have to rely on them for self defense. In an ideal world we'll have a strong social safety net, trust in law enforcement, trust in our neighbours, and an educated population. We must also have a collective cultural view of moderation where firearms are seen as tools and not as weapons to be worshiped or feared. It's a polarizing subject but people should approach this issue with understanding for both sides of the argument.

But yeah I'm a centre left leaning, social democrat leaning tank engine that likes guns.

 

[Richard Bong]

Gun sales are up everywhere. Several friends have asked me about recommending a firearm for home safety, so I thought I'd cross post this here. My recommendation is the Keltec KSG 12 gauge shotgun for these reasons:

1) The 12 ga shotgun is the best home defense weapon because it is easy to handle and hit with, and with the proper ammo will not penetrate walls with enough force to kill people on the other side by accident. The 30 or so OO buckshot pellets fired with each shell each have low enough energy they can be bounced off a refrigerator door to shoot around corners, yet together they have enough stopping power to immobilize an aggressor instantly.

2) The KSG is a "bullpup" design, meaning it is very short and easy to handle indoors, and is easier to keep control of. Adversaries cannot so easily grasp and take control of your weapon, because it is short and out of their reach.

3) The KSG is slide action. Racking the slide of a slide action shotgun produces an easily identifiable sound that will cause burglars and other home invaders to flee, especially if you tell them what you are doing. That is the best deterrent you can get and deterrence is better than physical force.

4) The KSG carries twice the ammo of a traditional shotgun. That's important if you ever need to defend yourself.

5) The KSG is perfectly suitable for many other roles, including a wide variety of hunting sports. Practicing with a weapon is key to facility with that weapon, so this is a great choice. This is far and away a superior choice to any handgun.

Shooting Review: The Kel-Tec KSG – Eagle Gun Range

Kel-Tec KSG Review: Compact 12-gauge bullpup with dual mags, picatinny rails. Great for defense and maneuverability. Minor loading and safety issues.

www.eaglegunrangetx.com

Mossberg 590 (A mil spec version of the 500.) Both the 590 and 500 are reasonably priced, you can get a bullpup kit for either, but you don't really need one, they are easy to maintain, easy to get parts for and are extremely reliable. Get a 20" improved cylinder barrel for in the house. Number 4 buck in 2 3/4 standard rounds is probably best for home defense, though they both can take 3" magnum. The 590 holds 8+1 rounds the 500 comes in either 6+1 or 8+1 (Depending on version). And you can load on the fly without having to replace a magazine. The magazine capacity allows you to stay legal in most localities in the US.

"The chambering of a round into a pump shotgun is the most recognized and feared sound in the universe." - Traveller RPG (No I don't recall which book or version, though I believe it is in several. :) )


Now if you want to put in the range time and you are not in Chicago or New York City, (Where it is virtually impossible to legally own a handgun) then an M1911 (Target match grade) is a good choice. Magazine capacity makes it legal in virtually all jurisdictions, it is relatively inexpensive, extremely accurate, reliable and easy to maintain. And that .45 ACP will make them change direction even if they are wearing body armor.

Those are a bit less popular for firearms, they don't have all the flash of some of the toys on the block, but when it comes down to it, you don't need flash, you need it to fire and fire where you point it and you need it to be legal.

 

[Shadow Reaper]

When I say "earn" earn has many meanings, to earn something, deserve, warrant, merit, justify to earn the rights we were given, I am not questioning the right to own firearms itself. . .but what have we done to earn that right, to keep that right?. . .we understand these rights were not just something we give to people because its theirs, we give them because we earned them and deserve them. . .

So when I say earn those rights, I am not questioning the right itself but the moral aspect as human beings and Americans who do nothing to deserve the rights we were given, we pound our chests and yell ITS OUR RIGHT!

I don't want to belabor this point but I would like to just make this simple observation. Most often when I meet a Leftist, and I do not mean a Liberal--I am a liberal and you are certainly not--when I meet a Leftist who pretends to know, and proves in every sentence that he does not, I want to simply point out what he should have learned by fifth grade here in the United States. Certainly our friends from around the world are invited to disagree, but you Phil; claim to be an American and claim to be arguing American principles while taking snarky pot shots at what you simply do not understand. So understand this--

According to the American definition of rights, we did not earn them. We never "earn rights". This is in our founding documents.

"We hold these truths to be self-evident, that all men are created equal, that they are endowed by their Creator with certain unalienable Rights, that among these are Life, Liberty and the pursuit of Happiness.--That to secure these rights, Governments are instituted among Men, deriving their just powers from the consent of the governed, --That whenever any Form of Government becomes destructive of these ends, it is the Right of the People to alter or to abolish it, and to institute new Government, laying its foundation on such principles and organizing its powers in such form, as to them shall seem most likely to effect their Safety and Happiness."

It is upon this uniquely American notion of "unalienable rights" that all of the American Experiment rests. Government does not grant rights. Government either secures our rights or we abandon it for better governance. This was and remains the foundation for the freest, most egalitarian society ever found on planet Earth.

So just saying, you've got this all entirely backward, and if you got your elementary education in an American public school and didn't get this, you were cheated; which would account for how you're so helpless, irrational and uninformed now.

 

[stockish]

If you are looking for less lethal options.

Pepper and kinetic ball firearm powered by CO2 cartridges.

Byrna | Best Non Lethal Self-Defense Products

One of the best defense products available is the Byrna SD, a legal, non-lethal self-defense weapon that fires pepper filled rounds up to 60 feet using CO2. Save lives without the risk of taking one. Empower yourself today!

byrna.com

And obviously Taser as well, they have a few options and will cover replacement if used with a valid police report.

TASER Self-Defense: Trusted Personal Protection Devices

Trusted by law enforcement, TASER Self-Defense makes less-lethal weapons that are safe to own, easy to carry. The only less-lethal device that can incapacitate an attacker. Defend your family without the consequences of taking a life.

www.taser.com

 

[Bruttle]

I think we forget the privileges and sacrifices that gave us those rights.

I was going to walk away from this whole discussion, but... You got that backwards. Our country was founded on the principle that you don't have to earn, deserve, or be given the rights that we enjoy as a country. In fact, I hesitate to call them rights for fear of misunderstanding. This freedom is our natural state of being. We were born this way just like we were born breathing. From the worst scumbag to the most honorable citizen, whether we do good with it or evil, freedom is ours when we are born. For us in the USA it is something that can only be taken away, not given.

That's why we tend to be a bit passionate about these things. We fight tooth and nail against anything that removes another chunk of freedom. We resist it like someone is taking our ability to breathe. That's why in our wars the term used is not "fighting for our rights". It is "defending our freedom". That is why those men and women that fight and die in that defense are heroes. They fought and gave their lives so we can retain our freedom, not to give us anything.

For the rest of it, you're not going to change anyone's mind. Just like it's quite obvious that nobody is going to change your opinion. The law is the law and nothing said in these forums will change that.

 

[Phil]

"You got that backwards. Our country was founded on the principle that you don't have to earn, deserve, or be given the rights"

And you completely missed the point, I already conceded that we are given the rights, you people just don't want to accept the fact that with those rights comes responsibility. End of discussion this is a moral argument not a legal one.

Forgot my "mic drop"

 

[Han Burgundy]

+

+

Not lethal, but they'll wish they were dead.

 

[Bruttle]

Not lethal, but they'll wish they were dead.

I had a version of that in mind. I wanted to take one of these:

and modify it to deploy this:

then wire it to my security system so it fogs my house with OC spray if the alarm goes off. Unfortunately, my wife veto'd it...

She also veto'd setting up a tiny garage door for a deployable drone that shot airsoft pellets and had audio and video capability. I really wanted to chase salesmen off my porch with a drone while yelling "get off my lawn" over the audio system...

I may or may not have pouted like a child for a bit after she veto'd these amazing ideas.

 

[Ezz]

I have a letter opener that is somewhat pointy close to my bed

 

[Hammer]

So its ok to litter the forums with talks about guns but any other discussion is a violation of TOS, maybe people don't want to see the gun BS either, you ever think of that? Do you ever think someone on here may have direct personal experiences with guns and death? And the first thing we see on the forums is hey go buy this badass shotgun lol. I will make a deal with you, keep your pro gun nut BS out of the forums and I will keep my anti gun nut responses out as well. :)

This topic shouldn't even be in the General tab anyways, this is way off topic. TOS says anything Objectionable btw and I find gun talk Objectionable.

If you don't want to see "gun BS" then scroll past and don't come into the threads. What you have done is come to a thread that asked a question, and attempt to derail it with your ignorance. You're more than welcome to start a thread opposing firearms. As far as I can see, neither is a breach of TOS. I promise you I won't waste your time by coming to your anti-firearm thread and derailing it like you have done here.

 

[Blind Owl]

BUT.. BUT.. the BEER!!

That's just the distraction beer!

Don't forget all the storage restrictions in Canada. I'm a PAL and restricted permit holder myself, but mine are just for hunting. I don't think there is any point in owning anything for home defense. Even if you had something, by the time you unlocked your gun safe, removed the trigger lock, unlocked the ammo box, loaded the ammo, you might be at a bit of a disadvantage.

Lol. Exactly, hence: home defence axe!

Patience, Politeness, Friendliness. These are my home defence weapons...........................



....................... oh i thought you meant home defence from the missus.

Lol, right? My wifey plays hockey and rugby, bore us a child, and wrangles violent patients as a nurse; needless to say we have a very friendly and polite relationship, haha.

the answer I would give is...baseball bat or a piece of pipe. I know my house, the thieves do not. I know the spots they can’t see and where I can swing a bat or smash them in the face, solar plexus, stomach, groin, or even foot.

a nice throwing knife is good too, or a good tactical knife.

if you want to keep people out though, get a dog or two that will bark.

most burglars will not go into a house with a dog. Too many better options. Remember, they want an easy target, as long as your neighbor looks like an easier target than you, your house will be fine.

the only thing I need to protect in my house is my family. If I can get them out, I will. If I can’t, We will retreat to where I can make a defensive stand. Everything else is insured and can be replaced. I do not need to be judge, jury, and executioner for some idiot that breaks into my house.

Well fucking said.

 

[Shadow Reaper]

Our country was founded on the principle that you don't have to earn, deserve, or be given the rights that we enjoy as a country. In fact, I hesitate to call them rights for fear of misunderstanding. This freedom is our natural state of being. We were born this way just like we were born breathing.

God bless you, brother. You get it. It's what all humanity needs, craves and desires.

 

[Blazingcold]

Got it covered!

 

[Ayeteeone]

I had a version of that in mind. I wanted to take one of these:

View attachment 18301

and modify it to deploy this:

View attachment 18302

then wire it to my security system so it fogs my house with OC spray if the alarm goes off. Unfortunately, my wife veto'd it...

She also veto'd setting up a tiny garage door for a deployable drone that shot airsoft pellets and had audio and video capability. I really wanted to chase salesmen off my porch with a drone while yelling "get off my lawn" over the audio system...

I may or may not have pouted like a child for a bit after she veto'd these amazing ideas.

FUN though this might be.. you'd need to move out afterward. Ever been hit by the stuff? It's bloody awful to clean up...