CIG announced changes to PTU Waves Eligibility

[Richard Bong]

One thing I would suggest to perhaps keep Concierge backers of any level a little happier would be to bring back the Hangar Module to a decent degree or include their new flyable in AC to play with. This would be a (I assume) lower server stress environment where they can see their new toys while not spawning in the whole PTU and gumming it up. We still get our stuff but it's at a more manageable simulation scale.

Just a thought. Feeling cute, might delete later.

The hangar module would have to be rewritten from the ground up. While I believe bringing back the hangar module is a good idea, it is also scope creep I don't believe we need. They did have "personal hangars" in the tracker and it was supposed to go with the cargo refactor, that no longer appears to be the case.

 

[NaffNaffBobFace]

You missed where I suggested Subscribers be moved, like High Admiral, to wave 4. Why move one without the other?

This way people aren't paying $10 just to check out the new hotness.

Leaving Subscribers as Wave 1, regardless of their playing, puts CIG in the same position they are claiming leaving Concierge as is does. They just make money from it because you can subscribe for one month, just for this perk and people will.

Further removing the Concierge perk just moves the problem instead of eliminating it, and makes CIG look like they are doing this as a cash grab. Segmenting Concierge also gives the appearance that they are trying to push their concierge supporters to higher levels to boost cash.

The initial surge that quickly tapers off can be easily mitigated by just launching wave 2 when it tapers off. Problem solved, no need to piss off your biggest backers.

I do get you it does seem it'll just shift the problem from concierge lower tiers to Subscription. Logically they'll just migrate to Subs and the Serge will still happen, they'll just have a fistful of dollars to pay for more servers so the acid test of that is if next month or a few months down the line it is decided subscription has to change too as player behaviour changed.

Alas I'd just be repeating myself to go over the subs server stress cost thing again and you've already read that several times now so I'll just invite you to check those prior posts

My supposition isn't going to change without evidence and at that point if it does arrive I'd be only too happy to amend my speculation based on whatever later came to light.

I doubt your speculation will change without evidence either but I ask the following not wanting to be rude but honestly curious:

I'm still confused by your controdiction in believing and accepting firmly the subscription fund spend information but not believing or accepting firmly the wave change information... So would you be as willing as I to accept if CIG came out and said Subs cover their costs so are okay to continue on Wave1 or whatever they stated was the cause of the decision at that point (assuming it was not cash-grab related)? Would you not believe them as it appears you didn't believe them about the lower tier Consuerge 90% issue? Or would you believe them unwaveringly as with the previous Subscription funding statements?

Or would it be down purely to subjective reaction at that point in time?

 

[NaffNaffBobFace]

The hangar module would have to be rewritten from the ground up. While I believe bringing back the hangar module is a good idea, it is also scope creep I don't believe we need. They did have "personal hangars" in the tracker and it was supposed to go with the cargo refactor, that no longer appears to be the case.

I can't say I don't agree but as has been pointed out by many backers of a certain level there was and renains an impression of a duty of care created by the initial expression of thanks of support which once offered has to be nurtured and maintained to continue a trusting relationship.

Consierge itself is a creature outside of its time. In the early 2010's spending big on a video game was super rare let alone backing one to this degree which had not even been made and could have failed (and still may). Now mobile games have blown it out of proportion and whales are not just more common, they are industry best practice.

Individual backers, even whales, are for the most part at best only 0.00X% of historic funding and if most are like you and I and are no longer reliably regularly contributing to the pot we are a drain on the projects current infrastructure, not a benefit. But that doesn't mean it will always remain that way and like you say may come out of hybernation once more of a game exists to interact with... to sour the relationship after so many years would be short-terminism looking for quick wins at the cost of future prosperity, which generally ends badly if it becomes a culture of never looking over the next horizon.

I think the first new PTU patch will prove if the new waves structure are a matter of hours or a matter of weeks. If it's hours this and the speculation around it all moot, it was a minor change anyway. If it's weeks, maybe months, then ways to resolve and maintain that relationship may be worth the Dev to maintain a happy and trusting core community. That dev would have to be aimed at making content which is low maintenance, low server impact while providing those backers the things they want without offering the whole PTU and the wider impact that has until loads can be balanced with demand.

AC's refactor is on the way. Later PTU Wave backers getting immediate access to their new stuff right away in AC Free Fly and battle royale etc might be a good step and even get people back playing that module, too?

 

[Sirus7264]

I am thinking it makes them look desperate

We know they made a very large acquisition this year
We know revenues are down (not a ton, but if they were expecting another record, that could be an issue)
We know they have recently built an expensive headquarters
We know they expanded their headcount.
We know that SQ is having hints about moving to beta, yet many of the systems they wanted to implement are not even in T0, much less T1 and T2.
All this is now making me wonder if they might be running into a revenue problem...

Yeah but one major thing if you havnt noticed is they have not really been releasing any new ships this year. Previous years they were back to back to back.

 

[Richard Bong]

I'm still confused by your controdiction in believing and accepting firmly the subscription fund spend information but not believing or accepting firmly the wave change information...

Changing the order of priority for PTU to prioritize testers instead of people that have provided significant monetary support isn't the best solution, IMHO, but it is a legitimate solution. To then sell access to anyone that wants it, regardless of their play and test habits, contradicts the stated goals.

It is that self contradiction which makes me not consider the CIG claim as legitimate.

Moving Subs to Wave 4, eliminates the contradiction.

I don't know where the Sub money is going, but CIG's claim that it is for the shows and creating flair items, isn't inherently contradictory. I'm willing to give them the benefit of the doubt because the claim has been consistent throughout the development. There are lots of reasons to not trust CIG, but this isn't one of them.

 

[Richard Bong]

I can't say I don't agree but as has been pointed out by many backers of a certain level there was and renains an impression of a duty of care created by the initial expression of thanks of support which once offered has to be nurtured and maintained to continue a trusting relationship.

Consierge itself is a creature outside of its time. In the early 2010's spending big on a video game was super rare let alone backing one to this degree which had not even been made and could have failed (and still may). Now mobile games have blown it out of proportion and whales are not just more common, they are industry best practice.

Individual backers, even whales, are for the most part at best only 0.00X% of historic funding and if most are like you and I and are no longer reliably regularly contributing to the pot we are a drain on the projects current infrastructure, not a benefit. But that doesn't mean it will always remain that way and like you say may come out of hybernation once more of a game exists to interact with... to sour the relationship after so many years would be short-terminism looking for quick wins at the cost of future prosperity, which generally ends badly if it becomes a culture of never looking over the next horizon.

I think the first new PTU patch will prove if the new waves structure are a matter of hours or a matter of weeks. If it's hours this and the speculation around it all moot, it was a minor change anyway. If it's weeks, maybe months, then ways to resolve and maintain that relationship may be worth the Dev to maintain a happy and trusting core community. That dev would have to be aimed at making content which is low maintenance, low server impact while providing those backers the things they want without offering the whole PTU and the wider impact that has until loads can be balanced with demand.

AC's refactor is on the way. Later PTU Wave backers getting immediate access to their new stuff right away in AC Free Fly and battle royale etc might be a good step and even get people back playing that module, too?

One of the things I use the PTU for, other than to look at what's new and fixed, is to test drive ships I don't own. I don't amass huge amounts of money in the PU or in REC in AC and AC has limited functionality. The PTU, in addition to IAE and Fleet Week is how I evaluated ships for purchase.

I'm not spending money now, but that is a different matter.

 

[NaffNaffBobFace]

One of the things I use the PTU for, other than to look at what's new and fixed, is to test drive ships I don't own. I don't amass huge amounts of money in the PU or in REC in AC and AC has limited functionality. The PTU, in addition to IAE and Fleet Week is how I evaluated ships for purchase.

I'm not spending money now, but that is a different matter.

Yes, I've been under the impression this whole time the PTU was being used as the means to an end for Concierge to have access to the newest assets as soon as possible and it was never intended that Concierge was expected to be testing at all. It's just the numbers have swollen to such an extent its now unsustainable.

I feel AC could still be a solid candidate for a solution for this - in a build-it-and-they-will-come way, it would keep the main thrust of the demand in the non Persistant-Entity-Streamed AC which is locally hosted in your machine. Heck they might not even have to have changed the waves structure if that had existed already to syphon off much of the single log-in traffic. AC loads faster and has none of the running around from Hab to Space Port to flying up to space and beyond. It's a much more tourist friendly setup were one could swiftly check out the craft one wanted to see in the latest release. Save time, save effort, get AC more use... what's not to love?

 

[Richard Bong]

Yes, I've been under the impression this whole time the PTU was being used as the means to an end for Concierge to have access to the newest assets as soon as possible and it was never intended that Concierge was expected to be testing at all. It's just the numbers have swollen to such an extent its now unsustainable.

I feel AC could still be a solid candidate for a solution for this - in a build-it-and-they-will-come way, it would keep the main thrust of the demand in the non Persistant-Entity-Streamed AC which is locally hosted in your machine. Heck they might not even have to have changed the waves structure if that had existed already to syphon off much of the single log-in traffic. AC loads faster and has none of the running around from Hab to Space Port to flying up to space and beyond. It's a much more tourist friendly setup were one could swiftly check out the craft one wanted to see in the latest release. Save time, save effort, get AC more use... what's not to love?

Not the newest assets. You may, or may not, get to fly those.

There was usually a nice big wad of cash to start the PTU with. Go to the ship store and buy the ship you want to try.

You want to know how the Phoenix flies, go to Loreville. Looking at the Valkyrie, go to Area 18. Want to try out an Ares, Crusader Etc.

 

[Chemus]

Not the newest assets. You may, or may not, get to fly those.

There was usually a nice big wad of cash to start the PTU with. Go to the ship store and buy the ship you want to try.

You want to know how the Phoenix flies, go to Loreville. Looking at the Valkyrie, go to Area 18. Want to try out an Ares, Crusader Etc.

IME, the 3.18-19 PTU only gave 1m aUEC. Not enough to buy anything you mention there, and only a severely limited number of ships are under 1m aUEC. That said, playing the game might permit the purchase of one expensive ship within the testing period, but I'm not sure how much testing I could do while grinding that out...

 

[Richard Bong]

IME, the 3.18-19 PTU only gave 1m aUEC. Not enough to buy anything you mention there, and only a severely limited number of ships are under 1m aUEC. That said, playing the game might permit the purchase of one expensive ship within the testing period, but I'm not sure how much testing I could do while grinding that out...

It doesn't always work.

 

[Deroth]

My GUESS based on things CIG has stated is the reason they kept (as Naff pointed out they already were) $10 Subscribers in Wave 1 is due to all the complaints over the...lackluster...rewards for Subscribers over the past couple years. Additionally, I HOPE their data indicates that $10 Subscribers spend more time in the PTU, otherwise dropping them to Wave 2 might've been better.
Waka has posted further clarifications on how the waves are planned to work going forward, that it isn't written in stone that it HAS to sequentially go Wave 1 -> 2 -> 3... Instead, it is to give more granular control of being able to add two or more waves at a time based on their needs.

I'm further GUESSING that part of the reason for adding high volume use players to Wave 1 (instead of just inviting them directly to Evocati) is to aid CIG in Avocado selection/recruitment. This way CIG will have a little bit better idea as to whether these potential Avocados will actively engage in testing and Issue Council, or will just run around doing their own thing without providing any constructive feedback.

I understand the frustration from Concierge. I do think it would've been better to reach out to them to let them know their activities in the PTU have become detrimental to the process, that if they don't change then CIG would have to make changes to the way the PTU Waves work, to give them the opportunity to address the issue themselves, but ultimately I doubt anything would've changed with Concierge behavior (some probably would've either opted to wait for builds to go to LIVE or actively engage in testing in their Wave after completing their tourism run, though I question how many and for how long?) so CIG would've had to make these change anyways.

 

[Radegast74]

Looks like our Glorious Leader has weighed in:

View: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=kKVV-vrwwYU