Coronavirus COVID-19 Thread

[NaffNaffBobFace]

COVID Corner - Some reports from some news outlets from today, Saturday 27th of November:

- World: Global Confirmed 260,947,673 Global Deaths 5,193,495

- UK: Two cases of new variant of Covid detected in UK

- UK: Travel and mask rules tightened over new variant

- Netherlands: Dozens test positive on SA-Netherlands flights

- Switzerland: Swiss vote on ending restrictions while cases surge

- Germany/Czech Republic: Suspected Omicron Covid cases found in Germany and Czech Republic

- US: New York governor warns of Covid rise as US braces for Omicron arrival

- Israel: Israel to ban all foreign visitors due to Omicron variant

- Italy: Italy detects case of new Covid variant

- US: Fauci 'would not be surprised' if Omicron already in US

 

[Vavrik]

Α, Β, Γ, Δ, Ε, Ζ, Η, Θ, Ι, Κ, Λ, Μ, Ν, ξ,
Ο, <<--- We are here. What color will it turn?
Π, Ρ, Σ, Τ, Υ, Φ, Χ, Ψ, Ω

 

[Radegast74]

Α, Β, Γ, Δ, Ε, Ζ, Η, Θ, Ι, Κ, Λ, Μ, Ν, ξ,
Ο, <<--- We are here. What color will it turn?
Π, Ρ, Σ, Τ, Υ, Φ, Χ, Ψ, Ω

This is NOT the way I planned on learning the Greek alphabet...

 

[Montoya]

So about 2-3 weeks before we know if this variant is anything serious?

 

[Jolly_Green_Giant]

So about 2-3 weeks before we know if this variant is anything serious?

It’s a South African hoax!

…


But seriously you’d think we’d have more info on it already other than “it might be a thing to worry about, who knows” and “we don’t know if it’s in the US, but it probably is”.

COVIDEbola-666 is it dangerous? Maybe, maybe not.

 

[Vavrik]

So about 2-3 weeks before we know if this variant is anything serious?

Sorry if this is too long.

From a discussion with a bio science friend and my wife (a biochemist): but this is not privileged information. It's all in public domain.
It has no history, the strain is about 2 weeks old give or take a couple days. Right now it accounts for ~ 90% of new cases in South Africa. Not it's origin, patient 0 seems to come from Botswana and also had AIDS. By the time there was a positive PCR test it was too late. They don't know how prevalent it is in other parts of Africa. South Africa is doing a great job with PCR tests is how they found it. It's been found in enough of Europe for them to guess it's already in the US.

There's a lot more but I don't know quite how to describe it at Midnight.
Wear a mask. Even if you're vaccinated.

 

[NaffNaffBobFace]

Sorry if this is too long.

From a discussion with a bio science friend and my wife (a biochemist): but this is not privileged information. It's all in public domain.
It has no history, the strain is about 2 weeks old give or take a couple days. Right now it accounts for ~ 90% of new cases in South Africa. Not it's origin, patient 0 seems to come from Botswana and also had AIDS. By the time there was a positive PCR test it was too late. They don't know how prevalent it is in other parts of Africa. South Africa is doing a great job with PCR tests is how they found it. It's been found in enough of Europe for them to guess it's already in the US.

There's a lot more but I don't know quite how to describe it at Midnight.
Wear a mask. Even if you're vaccinated.

I have done my whole "Basic Precautions" schlep about a billion times in this thread - now they've found Mask Wearing does indeed actively cut transmission it's astounding through winter masks are not mandate. Just beggars belief.

Your right not to have a piece of cloth on your face is stronger than someone else's right not to die of asphyxiation/lung failure? Yeah, sod off no it isn't get a sense of perspective. It's getting to the point we need a Trin Tragula device.

 

[NaffNaffBobFace]

COVID Corner - Some reports from some news outlets from today, Sunday 27th of November:

- World: Global Confirmed 261,317,922 Global Deaths 5,198,624

- UK: Third Omicron Covid case detected in the UK

- Netherlands: Air passengers have new variant in Netherlands

- Australia: Woman sets fire to Australia quarantine hotel

- South Africa: Omicron symptoms mild so far - South African doctor

- Africa: WHO's Africa director: Keep borders open amid Omicron

- Omicron: G7 health ministers to hold urgent meeting on Monday over Omicron strain

- US: Anthony Fauci warns of potential US "fifth wave" over climbing cases and slowing vaccination

- EU: European Commission President warns of global 'race against time' against Omicron

 

[Vavrik]

- Omicron: G7 health ministers to hold urgent meeting on Monday over Omicron strain

There might be an overreaction coming if they don't wait for the science.

 

[SoloPlayerZA]

Sorry if this is too long.

From a discussion with a bio science friend and my wife (a biochemist): but this is not privileged information. It's all in public domain.
It has no history, the strain is about 2 weeks old give or take a couple days. Right now it accounts for ~ 90% of new cases in South Africa. Not it's origin, patient 0 seems to come from Botswana and also had AIDS. By the time there was a positive PCR test it was too late. They don't know how prevalent it is in other parts of Africa. South Africa is doing a great job with PCR tests is how they found it. It's been found in enough of Europe for them to guess it's already in the US.

There's a lot more but I don't know quite how to describe it at Midnight.
Wear a mask. Even if you're vaccinated.

Im from South Africa. There is a rapid spread of this new variant the past 48h. The president spoke tonight, so far no stronger precautions have been taken. He is starting to give the messaging that we will need boosters, despite having 2 jabs. There were talks that he would close inter provincial borders, but we are not there yet. For certain people, places and events, the vaccine will be mandatory. They have not highlighted the specifics yet.

 

[NaffNaffBobFace]

There might be an overreaction coming if they don't wait for the science.

Better to do and not have needed, than to not and have needed.

 

[Vavrik]

Better to do and not have needed, than to not and have needed.

Will feeling better because the government has a garden hose at the ready save houses during a forest fire?

 

[NaffNaffBobFace]

Will feeling better because the government has a garden hose at the ready save houses during a forest fire?

My personal impression is that the thing at the ready would be a set of cross-nation precautions ready to roll out right now which would be designed to mitigate some of the damage until the science had time to catch up, rather than what we have seen since the beginning of 2020 which is the chants of "There is no evidence to suggest". There might not have been much evidence, until enough time had passed to produce some, at which point unfortunately all that evidence says is "You should have acted weeks ago".

The garden hose may not put the forest fire out but it may hold the flames at bay long enough for the wind to change or an air-drop of water to occur, and if there is no other effect on it sitting there other than it is there at the ready when there would be nothing otherwise, what harm is there? There is no point sitting on your hands while the fire alarms wail waiting for the fireman to turn up to tell your house is on fire, by then it may already be too late to get your bum out of the building.

That's my impression anyway.

 

[NaffNaffBobFace]

Im from South Africa. There is a rapid spread of this new variant the past 48h. The president spoke tonight, so far no stronger precautions have been taken. He is starting to give the messaging that we will need boosters, despite having 2 jabs. There were talks that he would close inter provincial borders, but we are not there yet. For certain people, places and events, the vaccine will be mandatory. They have not highlighted the specifics yet.

Thanks for sharing what you are seeing where you are, please keep us updated with what you are hearing if you can :)

 

[Vavrik]

My personal impression is that the thing at the ready would be a set of cross-nation precautions ready to roll out right now which would be designed to mitigate some of the damage until the science had time to catch up, rather than what we have seen since the beginning of 2020 which is the chants of "There is no evidence to suggest". There might not have been much evidence, until enough time had passed to produce some, at which point unfortunately all that evidence says is "You should have acted weeks ago".

The garden hose may not put the forest fire out but it may hold the flames at bay long enough for the wind to change or an air-drop of water to occur, and if there is no other effect on it sitting there other than it is there at the ready when there would be nothing otherwise, what harm is there? There is no point sitting on your hands while the fire alarms wail waiting for the fireman to turn up to tell your house is on fire, by then it may already be too late to get your bum out of the building.

That's my impression anyway.

You haven't seen a forest fire consume a house. I have, more than once. Some advice: You're under no obligation to do or even accept it. It's just my advice.

• Don't use a garden hose during a forest fire, even to save your house. The house will burn at somewhere between 800F and 10000 F. Yes. 10000 F. It won't work, the water will probably not even reach the burn. And it puts you at risk of becoming a chunk of burnt meat.
• Wear a mask during a pandemic, especially with a virus like Omicron even if you are vaccinated. We do not know enough. If you aren't vaccinated, consider doing so but for heaven's sake wear a mask.

 

[NaffNaffBobFace]

You haven't seen a forest fire consume a house. I have, more than once. Some advice: You're under no obligation to do or even accept it. It's just my advice.

• Don't use a garden hose during a forest fire, even to save your house. The house will burn at somewhere between 800F and 10000 F. Yes. 10000 F. It won't work, the water will probably not even reach the burn. And it puts you at risk of becoming a chunk of burnt meat.
• Wear a mask during a pandemic, especially with a virus like Omicron even if you are vaccinated. We do not know enough. If you aren't vaccinated, consider doing so but for heaven's sake wear a mask.

My apologies Vavrik I think we may be both advocating for the same thing but saying it so differently it sounds different?

I thought when you were talking about the G7 over-reacting until the science comes along, you were advocating waiting and treading water until science could provide firm evidence for taking a direction, which admittedly I didn't think sounded like you! Hence my comments about waiting for the firement to turn up even if the fire alarms were ringing and it being better to do something than nothing.

The garden hoses you referred to I took to be the measures being tabled immediately - the basic precautions such as masks, social distancing, public space disinfection programmes etc.

I get the feeling we are both very much for immediate basic precautions, apologies I misinterpreted your original statement, I'd appreciate it if you could elaborate for the hard of thinking on what you meant by the G7 over-reacting?

In regard to buildings being taken by fire, you are right I've never seen a house in a forest fire or even a house fire, I've only ever seen a fast-food restaurant go up. Lots of smoke and not much light it started in the roof and moved its way down to the fryers. In the UK house fires might be slightly different to those experienced in the US? There is something here called "Non-standard construction" which means if the whole house isn't made of bricks and mortar you aren't going to get a mortgage from the bank and with the average house prices having just hit a quarter of a million GBP saving up to buy a house outright isn't a realistic prospect for most either. Those two things mean next to no houses are built here out of anything except brick, whereas I have seen imported programmes on TV that make it look like US homes are mostly pre-fab, the whole "Move the bus" thing where they level a persons home and reconstruct it in a weekend... Because of the heavy grade construction of most homes in the UK even in violent house fires the shell usually stays standing, It'll be gutted through inside but one of the only things that levels a house in these parts is usually a gas explosion. Those'll leave a perfect gap in a terrace (more than two houses attached in a row) filled with rubble and personal effects. That said there have not been many Forest Fire level burns in the country since the fire-bombing runs of the second world war so an analogy that definitely went over my head

 

[Vavrik]

I get the feeling we are both very much for immediate basic precautions, apologies I misinterpreted your original statement, I'd appreciate it if you could elaborate for the hard of thinking on what you meant by the G7 over-reacting?

First, you don't have to worry about offending me, you're a good man.

About waiting for the science, I did actually mean to wait for the science, but I am not saying wait for the scientists. If they waited for the scientists they would be waiting for a year. It's the R values. The'll need to know the cost in human life of their decisions, and whether or not that alone is going to affect the economy. Reason: The people this seems to be affecting more is the very people who drive the economy. The age group between 20 and 40. That is the parents of the kids, and people in the low and mid range of their careers - the people who make the economy work. All they need to know to do the right thing at the right time is the R values for age groups. But not just R(0), you need all the R values. Who is being hospitalized, who is dying. who do you need to protect. Or you shutdown the economy and we can't afford that.

 

[Bambooza]

I wonder at what point we realize we are chasing our tail and all of these actions have not done much to curtail anything. I am not suggesting we give up as there have been lots of great scientific achievements made in the past year but I am also wondering about the toll taken. At what point do we muster on with our daily lives as we gravitate back towards normality?

 

[NaffNaffBobFace]

I wonder at what point we realize we are chasing our tail and all of these actions have not done much to curtail anything. I am not suggesting we give up as there have been lots of great scientific achievements made in the past year but I am also wondering about the toll taken. At what point do we muster on with our daily lives as we gravitate back towards normality?

Have you had a chance to take a look at that report on the efectiveness of masks yet? I think things which provide that kind of new perspective could play a big part in what becomes mandatory and what becomes advisory.

 

[Vavrik]

I wonder at what point we realize we are chasing our tail and all of these actions have not done much to curtail anything. I am not suggesting we give up as there have been lots of great scientific achievements made in the past year but I am also wondering about the toll taken. At what point do we muster on with our daily lives as we gravitate back towards normality?

You should already be able to be back to your daily life, just be prepared to wear a mask while you're doing it. But we're paying for an overreaction our governments collectively had. They stopped global trade. You can't do that, because we depend on trade to do everything, including having a place to work. We're still seeing the repercussions.