[Discussion] - Divisions of TEST - Part Drei: Organization Ships

[NKato]

So, once again, another discussion, another brainsperge. Previous brainsperge here: https://testsquadron.com/threads/discussion-divisions-of-test-part-deux-the-finanicals-of-financing-frumendies.4603/

It's a known fact that we are going to have an Organization Hangar comprised of ships that were earned as an organization, or purchased with organization funds - we already have a few! Go bug Montoya for a list, I can't be arsed to ask him.

The question I pose today is: "How will we manage org ships so they aren't at risk?"

I came across the answer completely at random when reading through the Wookieepedia. Specifically, this article: http://starwars.wikia.com/wiki/Scarlet_Star

It had no set crew or owners and was instead assigned to various crews and mission team as necessary.

For org ships to be managed, we'd probably want to set up a roster of approved captains who have met a minimum standard (this standard is yet to be determined - it can be a set number of missions for TEST, or rank advancement, or whatever. I leave that up to Montoya), and we can do it two ways: Allow the approved Captains to requisition ships, and alternately, we assign ships to approved captains who have raised their hands as volunteers. Let me posit a few scenarios.

Scenario A
Hangar Chief: "Okay, we got approval to assign this Reclaimer to an approved captain. Who wants it?"
*a gaggle of captains raise their hands*
Hangar Chief: "Right, then. Drinking contest: last captain standing gets it."

Scenario B
Captain: "I need a Hull C."
Hangar Chief: "Let's see. Right, we have one beat to hell Hull C for you, it's over in Bay 8."
*Captain goes to Bay 8*
Captain: "I thought you were joking when you said "beat to hell"."

Scenario C
Fleet Command: "We need some combat ships!"
Hangar Chief: "Righty-o. Let's see who's available."
*bunch of captains line up waiting to partake in battle*
Hangar Chief: "Your combat ships have been staged in Bay Dickbutt. Pick whatever you like and get out there."

So, basically, the idea is that our org ships shouldn't be handed out like candies to whoever asks for them. We'd need a minimum standard that allows us to know that the member requisitioning/being assigned the ship is a dedicated member.

Essentially, organization ship access would be dependent on your contributions to TEST, in addition to your ability to make things happen.

Thoughts? Ideas? Suggestions? Discuss.

 

[CaptainRichard]

Nudes required as a security deposit per ship rental seems about right.

Don't return the ship? Nudes get posted here. ;)

 

[WarrenPeace]

Members who just joined two days before and have almost zero interaction with us should probably be restricted to taking out an Aurora or Merlin or that one Cutlass that keeps shutting down mid-flight, it's something in the electrical system because we've checked and the engines and the power core are fine, but it'd cost more than this ship's worth to go through and actually hunt down the problem, so we just keep rebooting the system whenever it goes down, and we don't want to trash it but no one wants to fly it, so we give it to newbies.

 

[Huegpaynis]

IN addition to your outline above, I'm curious what accopmodations are we going to have in place for ships loaned to the org hangar. This is of special interest to me; since we have many pilots with only a shipr or two as well as many pilots who have binders full of women hangars full of ships, it makes sens that some would be assinged to an org hangar at the owners discretion for qualified members to use. I myself plan to have at least one, if not more of my ships on semi-permanent assignment to an org hangar if the system allows it.

 

[NKato]

IN addition to your outline above, I'm curious what accopmodations are we going to have in place for ships loaned to the org hangar. This is of special interest to me; since we have many pilots with only a shipr or two as well as many pilots who have binders full of women hangars full of ships, it makes sens that some would be assinged to an org hangar at the owners discretion for qualified members to use. I myself plan to have at least one, if not more of my ships on semi-permanent assignment to an org hangar if the system allows it.

This is actually a good question. I think it'll be on a per-owner basis, they can choose to make their ships generally available to the TEST population at large, or utilize the same rules as the organization. Alternately, they can place the ships under the org's authority (assuming it is doable) for the members' use.

I know my Banu Merchantman is likely to be out on contract runs a lot, and I'll be needing crews for it. :)

 

[ThomSirveaux]

Nudes required as a security deposit per ship rental seems about right.

Don't return the ship? Nudes get posted here. ;)

Be careful what you wish for, Capt. Some of us might be ballsy enough to actually *NOT* return ships for this sole purpose.

 

[Op4ArcticFox]

Nudes required as a security deposit per ship rental seems about right.

Don't return the ship? Nudes get posted here. ;)

Except I'm fin with flashing my junk to anyone who ask... and a few people who didn't ask as well. Not much risk there.. in fact if you are really wanting to see my meat, there are already pictures on the web so, meh.

 

[Willem Default]

I might just stowaway on an org ship I'm not assigned and bother the pilot once we're out and about.

 

[Huegpaynis]

This is actually a good question. I think it'll be on a per-owner basis, they can choose to make their ships generally available to the TEST population at large, or utilize the same rules as the organization. Alternately, they can place the ships under the org's authority (assuming it is doable) for the members' use.

I know my Banu Merchantman is likely to be out on contract runs a lot, and I'll be needing crews for it. :)

Just to throw something out, as I'm likely going to have my 'tali and possibly my redeemer "on loan" to the org hangar, I'd prefer that player owned ships are treated essentially as org property while on loan. Stipulations would be made, of course: any required equipment changes would be funded by the org, with the ship returned to original fittings (preferrably with the original parts kept in storage) upon return to the owner's hangar; owners get priority assignement to their own ships in the event of a scramble or org op assignment; management (the "hangar chief" or whomever) is responsible for assigning the ship to a temporary captain (unlike, for example, an org-owned ship that can be requested. For the record, this stipulation is super loosy-goosy, and intended more as an example).

Ideally, the whole system would be very straightforward and tailored to allow owners some control of their ships without allowing any sort of crazy micromanagement by an owner. Owners should loan their ships to the org with the mindset that it's not "theirs" for the duration of the loan; this would hopefully discourage owners from interfering too much in the day-to-day use of their ships while it's in the tender care of the hangar chief.

 

[WarrenPeace]

Just to throw something out, as I'm likely going to have my 'tali and possibly my redeemer "on loan" to the org hangar, I'd prefer that player owned ships are treated essentially as org property while on loan. Stipulations would be made, of course: any required equipment changes would be funded by the org, with the ship returned to original fittings (preferrably with the original parts kept in storage) upon return to the owner's hangar; owners get priority assignement to their own ships in the event of a scramble or org op assignment; management (the "hangar chief" or whomever) is responsible for assigning the ship to a temporary captain (unlike, for example, an org-owned ship that can be requested. For the record, this stipulation is super loosy-goosy, and intended more as an example).

Ideally, the whole system would be very straightforward and tailored to allow owners some control of their ships without allowing any sort of crazy micromanagement by an owner. Owners should loan their ships to the org with the mindset that it's not "theirs" for the duration of the loan; this would hopefully discourage owners from interfering too much in the day-to-day use of their ships while it's in the tender care of the hangar chief.

This. I don't want to try and check out a ship, only to have someone angry at me because I changed the settings on the space radio and I'm flying it faster than they like. Keep ships in good maintenance and leave them how you found them, sure, but if you see someone using a ship you loaned to the org while you're out and about, don't harass them about taking good care of it.

 

[Black Sunder]

Well I have several ships of various function I plan to rent out for a small fee. It isn't out of greed it is to provide me a passive income of some kind and this is a good way to make that happen.

 

[Willem Default]

Well I have several ships of various function I plan to rent out for a small fee. It isn't out of greed it is to provide me a passive income of some kind and this is a good way to make that happen.

I think that's more than reasonable

 

[honcho12]

Well I have several ships of various function I plan to rent out for a small fee. It isn't out of greed it is to provide me a passive income of some kind and this is a good way to make that happen.

Also to cover wear and tear, CIG's said parts will wear out eventually even if you treat them real nice. It'd make sense to have a little fee/tax on all the org ships as they get lent out.

 

[NKato]

Also to cover wear and tear, CIG's said parts will wear out eventually even if you treat them real nice. It'd make sense to have a little fee/tax on all the org ships as they get lent out.

I agree. I will probably have a lease contract of some sort for my ships, where if they're used by a TEST member, they'd have to pay an initial contract fee, as well as the cost-of-maintenance fees for whatever duration the contract is for. Of course, I'd have some stipulations for these ships to be recalled (or prioritization) in the event I need those ships for a high priority job.

For example, I'm out in my Carrack, and I get notified that we need a massive pile of arms and ammo shipped to Hub X, and my BMM's out in the hands of a contracted captain. I can just batphone the captain and tell him: "If you can do this job, I'll waive the maintenance fees for the runs required to cover the job."

 

[NKato]

From a PM conversation with Karab.

Karab: and to answer your thoughts in the thread, yes that's about what we did in EVE with handouts
Karab: particularly with capitals
Karab: so if someone has x role(resp)/respect/track record they get assigned perms/roles in forums and have access to certain channels which are auth'd
Karab: so we hand them out before ops, and post op they get returned, and we catlog amount of fuel given (not ammo, warchest etc)
Karab: catalog*
Karab: fuel's expensive, esp in invasions/deployments
Karab: I never actually seen anyone steal a capital in my experince (the alliances/ops I've been in)
Karab: blown up? sure
Karab: and ships are insured under alliance holders/execs/high lvl FCs
Karab: so if they blow, payouts go to said person/org wallets
Karab: and everyone has to keep an inventory
Karab: I can post fancy post, bulletpoints, etc
Karab: but :effort: atm since I feel like shit atm
Karab: and backed with experince and trackrecord
Karab: we already know CIG is trying to get ideas/roles in for org / standings level perms for wallet and items
Karab: ANyway yeah... TL;DR- assign high level FCs / execs (org top level leaders, high lvl trustworthy folks [typically highrollers/founders/motivators]) roles to hand out x type of ships/wallet depending on resp assigned, and said folks (mainly leaders//high lvl FCs) auth/vouch for those on the whitelist to recieve said ships/funding
Karab: if the game doesn't have tracking/inv functionality, then make googledoc or better yet a testsquadron based tracking system with API pulls
Karab: /end of sperg

 

[PSIcoh]

Personally, I don't think members of 2 days or even a week should be able to take out any ship at all. If one organization that has something against us launches an espionage mission - sending members to us with the intention of stealing everything they can - the organization could lose a lot of assets.

I think it would be prudent to consider only allowing members who have been in the organization for long enough to have helped gain a percentage of the cost of the ship they are taking to rent said ships. E.G. Someone with the organization for a month has been on several mining expeditions - each time mining and hauling an estimated 20,000 credits in precious ore/metals. This would mean they were definitely allowed to take the Aurora LS (since that currently costs an equivalent of 20,000 credits) and could possibly take the Cutlass if cleared by the Chief. That way if someone DOES steal something - they would have helped pay for a portion or the whole cost of the replacement ship.

Now I know that the exact system I've outlined might not work, but I don't want someone to pony up a Constellation for the "Shared Ship Program" and then have it stolen by some guy who was with TEST for a month or two and then left to go back to his old org with his new ship.

It may not work exactly as this, but it may be a good idea to consider we make it somehow inefficient for would-be thieves to steal (meaning the time they take in game to work up to their target ship actually costs them more than buying the ship itself or that they've already paid for the ship by helping the organization).

Thoughts on those ideas?

 

[Op4ArcticFox]

Not to say there shouldn't be a minimum grace period before someone can acquire ships, but the problem with that safeguarding against any other corps is that they can just choose to wait X number days into the time they are allowed ships to do it instead of right away. At best its a minor deterrent.
Really this system should be more of a promotion for people to participate and get access to better goods. And so on.

 

[Snakey]

Scenario A
Hangar Chief: "Okay, we got approval to assign this Reclaimer to an approved captain. Who wants it?"
*a gaggle of captains raise their hands*
Hangar Chief: "Right, then. Drinking contest: last captain standing gets it."

I may be 13 but i will finish an entire keg before giving up!!! XD

 

[Desterion]

Rather than a tax for taking one out, I'd rather we just have a general tax on the org like 1-2% of income if it's possible. People would barely notice it and it would generate enough credits for us to be able to keep the fleet repaired as well as do other things.

I don't think theft is going to really be a problem as much as people are thinking. There are going to be systems in place to make it a very big penalty if somebody does steal a ship, and the loan system is likely on a contract basis. Say person X must remain in the corporation otherwise it becomes stolen. It can only be taken out for so long and if it's gone for a day or 2 after that it gets repo'd or the systems don't start up. Or just have it autopilot back once it's time allotment runs out if it doesn't get an extension. People should generally know about how long they'd like to have a ship and would reasonably use it for.

I do agree we should have some kind of tiers or seniority kind of thing with who gets to captain/pull a ship. For the majority of the ships we can keep them in that, then we can have a general pool. These will be the older and more beat up ones, but we can throw in a few connies, maybe a reclaimer or something that anyone can take out. I think it would really mean something to some of the new members if they join and can think wow, this is cool because we let them take a big ship out for a spin for a few hours.

 

[PSIcoh]

Yeah I can see the points being made as completely valid. I agree that it would be great to be able to show the new members how great the other ships are.

With regards to the waiting period - the reason I proposed it was that by the time they stole that ship, the organization would have made enough money off of that person to purchase a brand new one. So it would negate any reason for stealing. But I realize that such a waiting period would probably so massive that it would more than likely act as a deterrent not for the would-be thieves, but instead for our own members...

I do think as long as we have the proper paperwork/channels set up, those in charge of the program would be able to determine if the person really needs the ship or is just trying to steal it.