[Discussion] Some thoughts about maturity/srsbzns.

[NKato]

I've been noticing how a lot of people have slightly differing reasons why they joined TEST. Almost all of them have the same thing in common: That we don't take ourselves seriously.

The thing is, as a large organization, it's a good thing to have some ambition, so some serious-business mindsets will be needed.

There is just one caveat to this: It's all a matter of knowing when to be serious.

For example, let's say we're in the middle of a meeting discussing policy and protocol on how to operate capships (especially that Pegasus Escort Carrier!), and someone randomly blurts out "Fly it into the sun!"

Some people might get a chuckle out of that, but sometimes others will not be as receptive. Immaturity at the wrong times can disrupt the mood surrounding an important discussion, and thereby derail actual progress. This is why I'm bringing this up now, as opposed to waiting until the eleventh hour (PU Beta).

I want everyone to understand that while we are a laid back organization, there will be people who want to do all that they can to support the organization, and that they may engage in topics and discussions that should be treated with the respect it deserves. That's all.

Now, regarding the whole "fly it into the sun" thing we seem to be riffing on: That's going to be a one-off thing. We'll probably fly a Bengal Carrier into the star, and that's it. If I hear someone saying, "Fly the Pegasus into the sun!", I'm going to just put that person on ignore for the duration of the discussion. (And probably revoke any and all ship-admin privileges.)

I'm not interested in blowing up at someone (and causing subsequent drama) because I got sick of the same old tired joke.

For now, though, you're welcome to be as immature as you want, within reason. Bring out the booze!

 

[Macabre Poetry]

I do believe there will be a natural shift towards more seriousness when there is something to lose. As of right now, I could careless if I wreck a ship or whatever because there is now costs. However, if I have a Pegasus, there is going to be desire to keep it alive because of costs and time associated with it. I expect most people to behave that way.

Importantly, we aren't a rigid structured organization. We want people to have fun with it. We provide a group of people with similar interests. I found people like Dirty and Montoya who enjoy financial markets and I can shoot the shit with about it. We don't want to punish people for enjoying the game a different way, but we also don't want their enjoyment to be centered around destroying your stuff.

 

[maynard]

Montoya is living proof that you can take community building seriously without taking yourself seriously

we didn't grow to 4800+ members by accident, but we've been laughing all the way

 

[svenrichter]

Decisions like that should always be made through penis fencing anyway.

 

[Horus Taber]

I totally agree with this! It's the reason that TEST is both fun and open while also holding a sort of implicit structure that led to me wanting to join. Knowing that I will be a part of a community of players who are a mixture of comedic and serious players makes me excited to be a part of this awesome organization. It leads to awesome things happening and fun groups forming for others who want to do one thing or another based on their likes and dislikes (such as the Artemis Division RP group for those who wish to role play). The ability in an organization to have this mentality will just lead to more AWESOME group content and of course more BEER to go around ;-)

 

[Frisbeerocker]

Not an issue as long as the general "don't be an asshat" rule is followed. I don't see why we need to keep having these constant discussions when the answers to all our problems is simple: act like a fucking adult!

 

[Black Sunder]

Thing is though, the Bengal into the sun was decided long ago and its for team building and seeing the community in tears while we laugh. Tears fuel the TEST Cap Ships. Past that we wouldn't destroy another one for fun. And like you NKato if I see someone say we need to crash our Pegasus into the sun as soon as we get it I'm throwing them out the airlock and then selling the corpse. Such a piece of hardware isn't to be taken lightly and people know this in the back of their minds regardless how much we joke now about it now.

TEST was created to be a fun org and we can have serious fun without being extreme or obnoxious about it and people know that. Joking now gets it out of our system for later. Take for instance the Reddit World of Tanks clan that JBWill and I am in. We're not that serious about anything but we're still a top 20 clan any day of the week. Point is it can be balanced easily with a bit of time.

 

[NKato]

Thing is though, the Bengal into the sun was decided long ago and its for team building and seeing the community in tears while we laugh. Tears fuel the TEST Cap Ships. Past that we wouldn't destroy another one for fun. And like you NKato if I see someone say we need to crash our Pegasus into the sun as son as we get it I'm throwing them out the airlock and then selling the corpse. Such a piece of hardware isn't to be taken lightly and people know this in the back of their minds regardless how much we joke now about it now.

TEST was created to be a fun org and we can have serious fun without being extreme or obnoxious about it and people know that. Joking now gets it out of our system for later. Take for instance the Reddit World of Tanks clan that JBWill and I am in. We're not that serious about anything but we're still a top 20 clan any day of the week. Point is it can be balanced easily with a bit of time.

Exactly right! :D

 

[ghost53574]

Serious fun is when you board an enemy carrier in an aurora without the enemy even knowing it, you force them into joining TEST squadron, and you then make them fly their carrier into the sun. That's seriously funny...

On the other hand I totally agree with Black Sunder that when the PU is released we will have a more strict and serious mentality when it is needed. Remember the people in power, Montoya and his little Montoya, are the ones that are mature and we are all just his mindless slaves.

 

[AntiSqueaker]

I thought this was always the case.

I feel like we've been playing up the "casual" side of TEST too much. While its all fun to joke about crashing Bengals and shit, there are plenty of people here who are going to be, for lack of a better term, hardcore players. But if you ask the average SC community member about TEST, they'll probably just say something about beer.

Which is fine I suppose, but I think TEST is more about being an umbrella for whatever playstyle you want (hardcore, casual, mining, salvaging, capital ships, piracy, hauling etc etc etc) with a non-serious flair, than just a bunch of drunken idiots.

Just my 2 cents.

 

[Overlord]

Couldn't agree more. And taking something serious can be fun for some and there is nothing wrong with that. Personally I think we can be serious or at least allow others to be serious without diminishing them or their gameplay with sarcasm or irreverent humor (the last post competition immediately comes to mind in a serious thread). No question, we are going to need humor to survive in this game but we are also going to have to allow for a certain degree of organized, militaristic tactics for large fleet engagements. But if that isn't your thing then fine. But don't dismiss efforts to build a kickass corp competent on the field; because individual piloting skills, although beneficial, won't cut it in the PU against a highly organized group or fleet. If people want to only play the clown then fine, I am all for it. But don't expect others to rush to your aid after launching into them for taking the game a tad more serious than flying into the sun. But I am sure this comment will inevitably be dismissed with the usual 'this isn't EVE' quip or this is 'TEST' defense. If that is inevitably the future of TEST, not taking anything serious in a game built around blowing ships up and competition, then I am more than happy to watch our expensive ships go down in flames because we don't know when and when not to be serious. Besides, those of us who are a tad more serious often get our jollies in other ways: like watching someones ship go down in flames because they thought this game only required fun gameplay. Or at least how they defined 'fun'.

 

[GeoToaster]

From what I've seen this group is a pretty mature group over all attitude and I honestly dont think there will be a serious issue with immature behavior. As long as we can laugh and have fun together we will be strong, a positive attitude and respect towards your fellow test pilots should allow us to achieve great things, and still not lose sight on what test is as a whole. :)

 

[Feckless_Rogue]

I for one am not particularly skilled in organisational matters, but am deeply appreciative of all efforts made by those who are, and I believe that in order for the most people to have the most fun people who want to contribute to organisation should be nurtured.
What I might suggest if I may be so bold is that those who wish to meet in mumble or create forum posts to discuss such matters "seriously", don't attempt to do so in general chatrooms. If you wish to get down to nitty gritty without being interrupted, jump into a side room in mumble or flag it clearly in the thread. I'm sure then even the most childish/ossified amongst us can respect that.

 

[Overlord]

I for one am not particularly skilled in organisational matters, but am deeply appreciative of all efforts made by those who are, and I believe that in order for the most people to have the most fun people who want to contribute to organisation should be nurtured.
What I might suggest if I may be so bold is that those who wish to meet in mumble or create forum posts to discuss such matters "seriously", don't attempt to do so in general chatrooms. If you wish to get down to nitty gritty without being interrupted, jump into a side room in mumble or flag it clearly in the thread. I'm sure then even the most childish/ossified among us can respect that.

I have to give you your first like for that. Absolutely, general chat should be open and fun. More serious efforts should be in another channel. But forums are a problem because sooner or later people jump in with the same old jokes and often the thread turns into a tit for tat, and spreads to other posts. Sadly it would appear a certain vocal minority believe that joking around and being serious are incompatible. Personally I think they are compatible - it's just a question of knowing when.

 

[maynard]

I enjoy the asshats and clowns, they make me laugh - so I come around often to see what they're up to

The way to keep them coming around once the PU launches will be to create content for them (and all of us) to participate in. This will require some organization and work. I am confident we will find plenty of people willing to put in the effort needed to make being a Testie fun. Leadership affords status and prestige, after all.

At this point we have no clue as to what the multiplayer mechanics and dynamics will be. We will find out what does and doesn't work when the PU goes live, and survive the inevitable failures on the way to success. But until we get there I will gleefully mock any and all petty authoritarians who try to impose their rules and regulations and values based on their best guess of what the PU will be. Long live the asshats!

 

[Captain Easy]

I enjoy the asshats and clowns, they make me laugh - so I come around often to see what they're up to

The way to keep them coming around once the PU launches will be to create content for them (and all of us) to participate in. This will require some organization and work. I am confident we will find plenty of people willing to put in the effort needed to make being a Testie fun. Leadership affords status and prestige, after all.

At this point we have no clue as to what the multiplayer mechanics and dynamics will be. We will find out what does and doesn't work when the PU goes live, and survive the inevitable failures on the way to success. But until we get there I will gleefully mock any and all petty authoritarians who try to impose their rules and regulations and values based on their best guess of what the PU will be. Long live the asshats!

I think this is well said.

If I thought this organization was stupid (mindlessly crashing for fun) I wouldn't have joined. I like to win. No, I love to win. And I hope that we do have the leadership that will be needed to win. But the PU is still in the future. Anyone willing to step up and help organize or lead should never be dismissed outright IMHO.

However, as far as leadership goes at present, I only recognize the people that created this organization. I do think all ideas should deserve consideration and respect. When and how this all occurs are up to the leaders in TEST. There are some posters that have been asked to withhold suggestions and allow the org leadership to handle that area. IMO I feel that is correct. A proper chain-of-command is important to the success of any organization.

My place is to wait and see what TEST desires from me. I think that the light hearted comical attitude here is an indicator of people that can find ways to work together.

 

[reavs]

I'm glad this came up I'm personally hoping this is run in a similar fashion as to how test is run back in eve in regards to srs bsns ops and the like. If shit hits the fan people will take their internet spaceships seriously for a few hours and place dumbfuckery on the backburner until shit is sorted and super sekret stuff is dealt with. I personally don't play to lose especially when I've got my own assets on the line for the org. I'm more than happy to be a douchebag for the large majority of the time but I'm hoping people realise there is a time and place.

 

[fraggdya]

I think it'll be fine. So far everyone has been pretty helpful and mature as far as I have seen. Fair point nonetheless :)

 

[Overlord]

I think it'll be fine. So far everyone has been pretty helpful and mature as far as I have seen. Fair point nonetheless :)

Really? Ever ask why 'This Is Why Killboards Matter' is constantly near the top of forums with 111 replies? It's because a certain group of asshats don't agree with the subject matter so they do what they can to derail the discussion; which presently is seeing who can post last. OK, if the subject matter is say 'Banana peels on the Hangar floor - a good thing or bad thing?' then sure, go to town. But on a subject regarding Killboards and how they can be effective for promoting the corp and improving piloting skills? That is so asinine I can't even bother anymore, and no doubt that was probably their intent. This is not productive and mature on any front. Moreover, it only feeds in-corp animosity and polarizes people into different camps. And who really thinks pissing off fellow corp members is a good idea? I mean really, with fleets of expensive ships on the line! Ever hear the expression 'Lose lips sink ships?' And trust me that happens in EVE all the time. Fortunately I am not a lose lip kind of guy but I can safely say I won't be rushing to aid these asshats in the PU. So what is the point of allowing people to run amok in forums and piss other members off? Do you really think it will all turn out in the end? Sorry, I have my doubts and have to say if it wasn't for Montoya (and his Phoenix full of babes of course) I would probably pack up and leave. But maybe things will get better, on the forums at least. We shall see.

 

[NKato]

Really? Ever ask why 'This Is Why Killboards Matter' is constantly near the top of forums with 111 replies? It's because a certain group of asshats don't agree with the subject matter so they do what they can to derail the discussion; which presently is seeing who can post last. OK, if the subject matter is say 'Banana peels on the Hangar floor - a good thing or bad thing?' then sure, go to town. But on a subject regarding Killboards and how they can be effective for promoting the corp and improving piloting skills? That is so asinine I can't even bother anymore, and no doubt that was probably their intent. This is not productive and mature on any front. Moreover, it only feeds in-corp animosity and polarizes people into different camps. And who really thinks pissing off fellow corp members is a good idea? I mean really, with fleets of expensive ships on the line! Ever hear the expression 'Lose lips sink ships?' And trust me that happens in EVE all the time. Fortunately I am not a lose lip kind of guy but I can safely say I won't be rushing to aid these asshats in the PU. So what is the point of allowing people to run amok in forums and piss other members off? Do you really think it will all turn out in the end? Sorry, I have my doubts and have to say if it wasn't for Montoya (and his Phoenix full of babes of course) I would probably pack up and leave. But maybe things will get better, on the forums at least. We shall see.

Usually the best course of action is to disengage - what discussions we have here will not influence CIG's decisions on whether or not to implement a killboard or killmail system. Just because someone has the "last word" in a discussion, doesn't mean they're actually right.