Firesprite in partnership with CIG to make Theaters of War

[Radegast74]

That would seem like a big departure from the early promises of a PC only game that does not cater to consoles.

However, the new gen consoles are essentially PCs with a 2070... so the technology has caught up.

Well, that was more tongue-in-cheek than anything else...

I left out Case 3 --> Firesprite studios was chosen because their staff knows what the true scope and vision of SC, more than any other studio. How can I say that? When you go to Wikipedia, you can see who is on their staff:

Spoiler

 

[Cugino83]

That would seem like a big departure from the early promises of a PC only game that does not cater to consoles.

However, the new gen consoles are essentially PCs with a 2070... so the technology has caught up.

True, but I think there are still several limitation and differences especially on PS, I mean looks at the CP2077 mess...

If CIG is planning for a console release I'll put my bet on the X-Box: MS is already pushing for the interoperability of the games beteween Windows and the X-box so....

 

[Cugino83]

Well, that was more tongue-in-cheek than anything else...

I left out Case 3 --> Firesprite studios was chosen because their staff knows what the true scope and vision of SC, more than any other studio. How can I say that? When you go to Wikipedia, you can see who is on their staff:

Spoiler

View attachment 20500

Ohhhh that makes a lot of sense now....
I mean: CIG needs new staff for getting ToW on the rail and in business, so why looks elsewhare when they already have a company that is used to work with CR?
Every person have his own working metod and idelology, and probably more so in the videogames industry, having someone that already work with CR chould be way way more profitable then bringing someone compleately new into the game....

 

[Montoya]

Well, that was more tongue-in-cheek than anything else...

I left out Case 3 --> Firesprite studios was chosen because their staff knows what the true scope and vision of SC, more than any other studio. How can I say that? When you go to Wikipedia, you can see who is on their staff:

Spoiler

View attachment 20500

Hmm 200 employees, thats fairly sized.

 

[Lorddarthvik]

Hmm 200 employees, thats fairly sized.

It was stated by Firewhatever that they are a multi project studio and not all of em are working on just ToW.

Maybe it's a small team of 10 ppl putting together and testing maps and balance, or it can be a 100 ppl doing a bunch of new maps with the existing assets?
Also, again, long term this might be beneficial, to have an outside team to manage and maintain ToW instead having to use CiG staff for that who will be nose deep in S42 and PU stuff for many more years.

Maybe they sourced it out cos they want to make it much much bigger than originally announced, with loads of new locations/maps that need to be designed, built and balanced for PVP?
It can be a lot of faffing about with placement of of emplacements/pickups/hidey holes/cover and wahtnot to get it to feel fun and balanced. I can see why they don't want their own level design team wasting time on this instead of getting on with squadron.

 

[NaffNaffBobFace]

Well, that was more tongue-in-cheek than anything else...

I left out Case 3 --> Firesprite studios was chosen because their staff knows what the true scope and vision of SC, more than any other studio. How can I say that? When you go to Wikipedia, you can see who is on their staff:

Spoiler

View attachment 20500

Aha? That's one way of bumping your staffing at times of peak requirement without having to turn to the uncertainties of Temping.

 

[Kapital_Kong]

I would generally come out of my hiatus to play ToW if it was semi stable, and the population doesn't die a week after release.
Cannot play Star Marine or AC due to lack of players in Oceania.

 

[NaffNaffBobFace]

I would generally come out of my hiatus to play ToW if it was semi stable, and the population doesn't die a week after release.
Cannot play Star Marine or AC due to lack of players in Oceania.

From what I've seen it's not just Oceania, I've not logged in to AC in the last two patches and been able to find a match.

 

[Jolly_Green_Giant]

So this is making it sound like its already in evocati. If that's the case, it's a lot farther along than I first assumed.


From the Firesprite website:

Theaters of War was first unveiled at CitizenCon 2019 in Manchester, UK, with positively received test sessions for event attendees. From that event onwards, player feedback from Theaters of War closed tests for select Star Citizen community groups has been vital for improving the combined arms mode’s quality. Further online closed community tests are scheduled to begin this coming weekend, with more playtests to come throughout the mode’s development. This combined arms mode will continue to see iteration and development to help progress Star Citizen’s and Squadron 42’s combat, and future tests will expand beyond the closed Evocati group to eventually include players in the Public Test Universe

 

[Montoya]

So this is making it sound like its already in evocati.

It was, they were testing it this past weekend.

 

[vahadar]

Got one question : will combine combats only occur through Theatres of war?

Because does this imply that we can not do the same in the PU with huge groups of players fighting each others on multiple locations?

Excuse my noobiness, but i am not really following the news about this theatres thing :)

edit : also with TOW have an impact on PU? Or it is two separate world?

 

[Cugino83]

Got one question : will combine combats only occur through Theatres of war?

Because does this imply that we can not do the same in the PU with huge groups of players fighting each others on multiple locations?

Excuse my noobiness, but i am not really following the news about this theatres thing :)

edit : also with TOW have an impact on PU? Or it is two separate world?

Ehmm.... what in the PU will be able to prevent something like this??
Don't worry, the "combine operation" are a hightlighted feature of ToW becouse, right now, there is nothing like this neither in AC, SM or the PU, but I that will change in the future, not only becouse the core tecnology in SC will evolve (server mashing, i-Chace etc...) but becouse withe the introduction of players own settlements (and as a conseguence, ORG own settlements) conflict for resources and location will naturally rise, so we'll see large combat operation with orbital capital ship battles, ground vehicles raid and small fighter storming both side for supporting, or suppressing, the opposite force.

 

[Montoya]

The test that CIG was running

Maybe it's a small team of 10 ppl putting together and testing maps and balance,

That is the surprising part, it is 10 people.

Small team doing some grunt work that CIG didnt want to bother with probably.

 

[Bambooza]

Got one question : will combine combats only occur through Theatres of war?

Because does this imply that we can not do the same in the PU with huge groups of players fighting each others on multiple locations?

Excuse my noobiness, but i am not really following the news about this theatres thing :)

edit : also with TOW have an impact on PU? Or it is two separate world?

TOW is a sim like Arena Commander and Star Marine. Its initial purpose was to allow CIG to start getting metrics on combined arms and play balance that can be used to balance weapons across FPS, vehicles and ships in the PU. The biggest issue in the PU as others have mentioned has always been the length of time from spawn to combat as well as there are a lot of players who don't seek out pvp encounters so its hard to balance weapons when its not the focus. TOW attempts to allow for quick reengagement after death as well as all the players are pvp focused.

What I do find interesting is when TOW was introduced at Citizen-Con 2019 it was playable as people at the con played it. Not only that but Sean Tracy said it was almost ready to be released and here we are a year and half later its being handled off to another studio. Makes me wonder if they just don't have enough developers to continue its development with the focus being mostly on SQ42 or they saw an opportunity to spin off TOW as a standalone game possibly for the console market.

 

[Cugino83]

Well the difference is that 2019 presentation was running locally, ToW once live will run on line.
As far as I know during the (supposed) final testing CIG found that the performance over the network ware bad... really bad... so they need to return to the workbench to adress them.
Let's face it: actually ToW is dooing is purpose: bringing out problem and spot for balancing and optimizations.

in addition since they still have it in the "development" fase CIG is taking advantage for optimising and improving.... not that that work will stop once it will go live, they just doing it in advance.

 

[Jolly_Green_Giant]

I have a few questions maybe some of you might be able to answer:


Does this studio allow money to be funneled in that isnt crowd funded or something?

Legally, could it be argued ToW is a separate game like Crytek tried to argue in regards to the PU and S42?

Do you think CIG's network engineers are in over their heads?

 

[Lorddarthvik]

I have a few questions maybe some of you might be able to answer:


Does this studio allow money to be funneled in that isnt crowd funded or something?

Legally, could it be argued ToW is a separate game like Crytek tried to argue in regards to the PU and S42?

Do you think CIG's network engineers are in over their heads?

We don't know what agreements were made between the studios as far as I know, so speculating on money flow is just that, speculation.
My speculation is that CiG is paying them, no money flows the other way, but who knows whats changing hands under the table... We are told a lot of things years after the fact (like that they have been collabing since 2019) so anythings possible.
BTW for those who pointed out a certain name in the leadership of the company: from wikipedia: "Chris Roberts of Firesprite has no relationship to Chris Roberts (video game developer), the Founder and Chairman of their newest development partner, Cloud Imperium Games."

ToW cannot be argued to be a separate game (thus breaking the original licensing agreement which is null and void since they moved to Lumberyard) as long as it remains accessible only through the Star CItizen Client. I have not seen anything about it being a fully standalone product, so No.

As for CIG's network engineers: YES. Very.
They have been since day one, with all the real-time networked actors, physics and grids and shit... It's a small wonder in itself that we don't constantly fall through the floor of our ships like we used to lol

 

[Cugino83]

I have a few questions maybe some of you might be able to answer:

Does this studio allow money to be funneled in that isnt crowd funded or something?

yes, this is still a "component" of SC, like AC or SM, even if developed (partially) by a 3rd party studio.
Is like Turbolent' works, that is developing the forum, startmap, and now, all the other star system, whouldn't be considered as paart of the CIG project.

Legally, could it be argued ToW is a separate game like Crytek tried to argue in regards to the PU and S42?

Putting aside that we don't know howthe agreemant with Cytech adn CIG ended up, this will be a complain that could be advanced for AC ans SC I think... and is alrady beind dismessed of SQ42.
Since the solid scold Cytec get the last time I doubt they'll try theyr lucky again... I doubt Crytech can even afford another complain against CIG if ever allow to do to so.
Plus CIg has now a contract with Amazon, not with Crytech so....

Do you think CIG's network engineers are in over their heads?

Very likely yes: net code is a PITA for CIG for quite a long time and, alongside with server performance and server meshing, one of the big problem of the whole prooject.

 

[NaffNaffBobFace]

from wikipedia: "Chris Roberts of Firesprite has no relationship to Chris Roberts (video game developer), the Founder and Chairman of their newest development partner, Cloud Imperium Games."

Well what are the chances that there was more than one CR in Game development?!

This is the GLORY of TEST! With 19,000+ members at least one of us is going to look stuff up :)

 

[Sky Captain]

Not sure I get the outsourcing model. Labor cost for in-house employees is on the order of salary x 1.25 (benefits) more or less. Cost charged for contracted labor is often at cost x an more escalated multiplier (e.g., x 2.5, or x 3.2). Is Theatres of War that important to move up in schedule and pay more for? I guess it depends on what other CIGs devs are producing at the same time.