Fleet Battle

[Opiepal]

Hey guys!

It’s been a long time since I’ve been on the website as i spend most my time in Discord. Thought it would be good to start getting back on here as I’m wanting to get more involved as we get ready for Pyro.

On to the topic at hand. I recently I came across a YouTube vid that a couple of ORG’s put together a fleet on fleet battle. It really put into prospective how we as the community can organize and make the game better as we wait for some of this to be brought online through future capabilities by either missions or environmental/NPC occurrences.


What: To get a team together to work on creating a point system similar to table top Warhammer/WarMachines type system to build custom fleets for a fleet on fleet battle.

Why: This will add depth to the current limited loops in the game and give tactical experience on a larger scale. It will also allow for team building on multiple scales to include ship to ship, squad to command, and inner ship crew positions (this will grow as more ship systems com online).

How: Points would be asigned to every ship in the game based on current player experience and known advantages and disadvantages. This could for obvious reasons exclude certain ships if they are too powerful. there can be different parameters based on the goal of the fleet battle (Mission).

Example: One mission could be to take out the opposing flag ship(s). Team is authorized 500 points, with 2 flag ships. Qualification for flag ships will be identified prior to ship selection, whether they are Hammerhead/C2 or Reclaimer/Starfarer, but could be smaller targets on a smaller scale with carrack or 600i. Flag ship scale will be important to identify prior though to ensure match is within weight class. Team selects flag ships removes cost of flag ship from point total and selects support/attach ships to finish out the fleet.

Fleet 1:

FLAG 1 - Hammerhead - 50 points
FLAG 2 - C2 - 45 points

Small ship points would be assigned to include points for personnel manning ships minus the pilot as it is included in the points.

Thoughts?

 

[marcsand2]

interesting

 

[Vavrik]

This sounds like an idea.
Hey @marcsand2, Could you adapt this to the flight combat training? I mean, a lot of the combat drivers in the game are going to be fleet protection. If I have time, that would even get mee back into it.

 

[Opiepal]

I know that was a very broad and I didn’t get down into the weeds to speak, but I really am just checking to see who would be interested in doing a working group on this. It not only will take those interested in parting in the battles, but setting up rules, guidelines, and implementing checks an balances. @marcsand2 would love to get with you and whomever is working with the combat training as @Vavrik mentioned.

 

[marcsand2]

This sounds like an idea.
Hey @marcsand2, Could you adapt this to the flight combat training? I mean, a lot of the combat drivers in the game are going to be fleet protection. If I have time, that would even get mee back into it.

Nope, this is bigger then Combat Flight Training. It deserves it's own event.

 

[marcsand2]

I know that was a very broad and I didn’t get down into the weeds to speak, but I really am just checking to see who would be interested in doing a working group on this. It not only will take those interested in parting in the battles, but setting up rules, guidelines, and implementing checks an balances. @marcsand2 would love to get with you and whomever is working with the combat training as @Vavrik mentioned.

I already informed the Event Coordinators about your idea. We can support this ;)

 

[Chromeninja]

Ooo I like this!!

 

[Opiepal]

I already informed the Event Coordinators about your idea. We can support this ;)

I would love to be a part of the working group if at all possible. Lots of options with this type of gameplay To include land battles with assult/defense type scenarios or base caping ( POI Destruction).

 

[Vavrik]

I would love to be a part of the working group if at all possible. Lots of options with this type of gameplay To include land battles with assult/defense type scenarios or base caping ( POI Destruction).

So would I. I'm tired of just theorycrafting fleet maneuvers and logistics planning in my head.
I have to warn you though, I have a hard time with fighters due to a disability. Larger ships are fine, fighters not so much. It's why I had to stop doing combat flight training a few years ago (@marcsand2)

 

[DirectorGunner]

I think if fleshed out more and discussed thoroughly, could be a fun event. SC meets tabletop. Add a game master and a live stream (no one accuses GM of preferential treatment or cheating) RNG generator for move options.

 

[FZD]

I'm definitely interested in this.

The flagships need to have a minimum size btw. If there was no minimum, I'd just pick a 350r or maybe a Herald. Then just do loops around the battlefield while others handle the battle. Can't destroy what you can't hit (nor even catch).

 

[Shadow Reaper]

In general, wargaming doesn’t focus so much on earning points as completing an objective or defending against. You might assign points to each side and use them to balance sides though. So for example you could say 1pt for a small ship, 2 for heavy fighter, 3 for medium ship, 4 for large, then grant the same points to both sides.

Disallowing missiles larger than S5 is a good way to start, and you can add torps in later. They’re hard to defend against, but the simulation is not very good without them.

I posted up a vid of this about a week ago. Each side had 3 flagships that had to be destroyed in order to win.

What I didn’t like about the match was they simply had at each other and there was no approach to battle. In their version of capture the flag, they were equal aggressors, and you don’t learn nearly so much as if one team is assaulting, and if the aggressor chooses their fleet composition based upon knowledge of their target. You can actually give the defender more ship points to choose from if you give the aggressor foreknowledge.

 

[vahadar]

Nope, this is bigger then Combat Flight Training. It deserves it's own event.

100% with Marcsand. Your idea is great @Opiepal , and the logistic behind it is horrific enough to be also extremely interesting.

 

[Opiepal]

I'm definitely interested in this.

The flagships need to have a minimum size btw. If there was no minimum, I'd just pick a 350r or maybe a Herald. Then just do loops around the battlefield while others handle the battle. Can't destroy what you can't hit (nor even catch).

Absolutely. It’s why I mentioned the largest ships specifically.
It will be good to try it in a smaller scale with something like Connie’s as the flagship with less points available to spend on fighters.

 

[Opiepal]

In general, wargaming doesn’t focus so much on earning points as completing an objective or defending against. You might assign points to each side and use them to balance sides though. So for example you could say 1pt for a small ship, 2 for heavy fighter, 3 for medium ship, 4 for large, then grant the same points to both sides.

Disallowing missiles larger than S5 is a good way to start, and you can add torps in later. They’re hard to defend against, but the simulation is not very good without them.

I posted up a vid of this about a week ago. Each side had 3 flagships that had to be destroyed in order to win.

What I didn’t like about the match was they simply had at each other and there was no approach to battle. In their version of capture the flag, they were equal aggressors, and you don’t learn nearly so much as if one team is assaulting, and if the aggressor chooses their fleet composition based upon knowledge of their target. You can actually give the defender more ship points to choose from if you give the aggressor foreknowledge.

That is what the points are for. To balance the opposing forces. Same as other table top games.

That battle is what got me thinking about is as an org doing the same, but making it scalable to allow for smaller and larger battles, air and/or ground.

 

[Opiepal]

Well, looks like there is enough interested to establish a working group.

Please respond to this post if you have interest in joining the working group.

I will be setting up a google drive folder for some of the working documents we will need to establish point assignments, rules of engagement and other various items for teams setups, video capturing of events. Etc.

Looking for around 5 not including me and one rep from the events coord team.

Start thinking about your knowledge of the ships you have fought with and against as this will be the most difficult and surely a constant balancing act as we move forward.

We can set up a time to do our first meeting that works for the group member once that have been identified.

 

[vahadar]

Interested.

A suggestion, you should include battle hardened TESTies in that brainstorming only : people who fight, who have led some fights, and who have organised some fighting events.

Do not let that great idea be theorycrafted, we have enough experienced people around who can share their combat and logistic knowledge.

@marcsand2 can point you to names.

 

[Opiepal]

Interested.

A suggestion, you should include battle hardened TESTies in that brainstorming only : people who fight, who have led some fights, and who have organised some fighting events.

Do not let that great idea be theorycrafted, we have enough experienced people around who can share their combat and logistic knowledge.

@marcsand2 can point you to names.

Exactly what I’m looking for!

 

[BUTUZ]

Can we make stuff go boom boom? If so I am in.

 

[Mudhawk]

A suggestion, you should include battle hardened TESTies in that brainstorming only :

Yeah well, too late. Not gonna stop me from adding my 5 cents. This stage is public anyhow. Maybe the final planning commitee?

FLAG 1 - Hammerhead - 50 points
FLAG 2 - C2 - 45 points

I'm not sure in how far this can be made applicable under these conditions but Mechwarrior (Tabletop and Online alike) has a pretty nifty system when it comes to picking your forces.
You got Lances and you got tonnage.
Lances consist of 4 Mechs max. Tonnange can usually be chosen between 100 and 400 Tons though average is around 250 Tons.
Mechs come in tiers of
Light (20-35t)
Medium (40-55t)
Heavy (60-75t)
Assault (80-100t)

As you can see it's impossible to bring a 4 Assault Mech Lance to a 200 points fight.
And a waste to bring 4 Lights to that same brawl.
So choose wisely.
And according to the objective.

I realize that tonnage can't be the currency and the bigger the ship the more crew is needed. But that can be handled by adding a value to a human crew too.
So an Hammerhead is 200 points plus 10 per manned turred.
The pilot comes with the ship obviously.

Maybe put a Reclaimer in the middle.
Winner is the team that takes a hold of the bridge and parks it at Everus armistice zone.
(Distance 200km, no jumping)

So?
Do you bring more men for boarding or more ships for fighting?
WILL your Auroras blot out the sun?
I'll watch that live-stream to find out.