I almost forgot about the earlier flightmodel because of all the new shinies we got but I gotta say Im kinding longing back to the 'old' days :)
What do you think?
FLIGHT MODEL - How Did We Get Here... Can We Get it back - By Noobifier
- Thread starter Doggen
- Start date
I almost forgot about the earlier flightmodel because of all the new shinies we got but I gotta say Im kinding longing back to the 'old' days :)
What do you think?
It'd be nice if the flight was fun, rather than realistic.
Just Fun.
That being aid, I haven't really flow since the days when the pips worked, so yeah, I may not know anything.
Just Fun.
That being aid, I haven't really flow since the days when the pips worked, so yeah, I may not know anything.
Crimsontarget
Captain
I just wish they would admit the cocked up with interactive mode and found a solution to actually make all inputs work under the same set of rules.
As it stands they are constantly having to go back and forth between gunnery and flight or between aim to fly or fly to aim. They never hit the mark because they are stubbornly working on broken foundations as a premise. Some want twitchy FPS style others want sim light style. They are trying to appease all at the same time with two opposing systems of flight control. How can they keep thinking that can work?
It's getting painful to watch and surely flight is the principal core mechanic of the game. If not right all else fails.
I made a vid about it ages ago, not got any better and no where nearer a solution, even with gimbal assist as a bandaid.
View: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=D-ZwboBNYxM&t=3s
As it stands they are constantly having to go back and forth between gunnery and flight or between aim to fly or fly to aim. They never hit the mark because they are stubbornly working on broken foundations as a premise. Some want twitchy FPS style others want sim light style. They are trying to appease all at the same time with two opposing systems of flight control. How can they keep thinking that can work?
It's getting painful to watch and surely flight is the principal core mechanic of the game. If not right all else fails.
I made a vid about it ages ago, not got any better and no where nearer a solution, even with gimbal assist as a bandaid.
I'm not pretending i know how the old flight models have been. I'm here since 2.6.x
I feel like the new flight model is much better than before. But honestly i can't tell how 2.6 really felt.
I would love a "real space sim" also this might be not a product which appeals to the majority of gamers.
i don't usally link spectrum but on this topic its important to listen to different voices: https://robertsspaceindustries.com/spectrum/community/SC/forum/57219/thread/flight-model-no-bs
I agree:
Where i agree I think the overall weapon range is way to short
Fixed guns need to be fixed
i feel like g limits could be higher
I disagree:
To me it looks like the old FM had practically no inertia
...
"Speed above SCM should make the ship feel like a rock in space". Yeah and no it should be some kind of linear relationship up to cruise.
I feel like the new flight model is much better than before. But honestly i can't tell how 2.6 really felt.
I would love a "real space sim" also this might be not a product which appeals to the majority of gamers.
i don't usally link spectrum but on this topic its important to listen to different voices: https://robertsspaceindustries.com/spectrum/community/SC/forum/57219/thread/flight-model-no-bs
I agree:
Where i agree I think the overall weapon range is way to short
Fixed guns need to be fixed
i feel like g limits could be higher
I disagree:
To me it looks like the old FM had practically no inertia
...
"Speed above SCM should make the ship feel like a rock in space". Yeah and no it should be some kind of linear relationship up to cruise.
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It was 'Arcadey' l;ike every other space sim for the last 40 years.
We do not want it back.....
Star Citizen is a Virtual Reality in Space.....not a game as we have been used to.
This is the Future.
The old system was fun in fighter type ships, but it left most fighters having very similar flight characteristics and scaled very poorly to larger ships, causing very unusual and unexpected behaviors from ships like the Caterpillar and Starfarer.
With the new flight model there is much more noticeable behavior differences among the fighter sized ships and much more consistent and predictable behavior from the larger ships.
With the new flight model there is much more noticeable behavior differences among the fighter sized ships and much more consistent and predictable behavior from the larger ships.
I think the new flight model has way more fidelity in line with reality which gives it a more authentic feel.
not exactly Virtual Reality in Space... more of a blend.It was 'Arcadey' l;ike every other space sim for the last 40 years.
We do not want it back.....
Star Citizen is a Virtual Reality in Space.....not a game as we have been used to.
This is the Future.
A true "VR in space" would probably end up being a bit tedious.. imagine if you could travel at the speed of light in Star Citizen, in a reality simulation that might bring travel between star systems to a time investment of several months!
Think of the actual physics needed to travel.. you accelerate all the way to the half way point and then turn around and start deceleration.
You might exchange missiles with a foe at 1 or 2 million kilometers. imagine detecting a swarm of missiles approaching while they are still 20 or 30 thousand km away.. and there is little you can do to avoid them!
atpbx
Space Marshal
Its best to ignore anyone who wants things "back to how they were" because:
It only worked for fighters.
It only worked in AC.
It only worked because auto cannons were bugged.
It only worked because shield health pools were so low.
It alienated EVERYBODY ELSE.
The new model levels the playing field and a lot of people dont like it simply because they cant OHK other players anymore.
It only worked for fighters.
It only worked in AC.
It only worked because auto cannons were bugged.
It only worked because shield health pools were so low.
It alienated EVERYBODY ELSE.
The new model levels the playing field and a lot of people dont like it simply because they cant OHK other players anymore.
Problem is, this game evolved from a current gen Wing Commander to something else entirely. Moving from some arcade style combat to a living, breathing universe where there are potentially millions of players running around performing a huge number of diverse activities. Change is inevitable as the scope grows.
If they lust for the old days so badly, they can just steal a page out of Blizzard's book. Launch Arena Commander Classic and they can all go to town in a simulator, in the simulator.
If they lust for the old days so badly, they can just steal a page out of Blizzard's book. Launch Arena Commander Classic and they can all go to town in a simulator, in the simulator.
Thats a great point
That is the problem, the arcade dogfight mode doesn't work well for non fighter ships. I personally would hate that, it would be immersion breaking for me. But I don't get into combat much, though I have started to do some in my defender. But over all I wouldn't want a return to older flight style.
We also have CIG catering to the masses making getting into flight easier making combat easier with GA. That's how you bring in that massive "casual" money they need.
All in all I am sure it gives a few CI devs nightmares trying to make everyone happy.
We also have CIG catering to the masses making getting into flight easier making combat easier with GA. That's how you bring in that massive "casual" money they need.
All in all I am sure it gives a few CI devs nightmares trying to make everyone happy.
I had a convo with a dude on Spectrum about this last week, let me see if I can find my comments to him...
Here is it:
[In response to "My major beef with CIG is with the flight experience which has deteriorated dramatically over the past few years. They had a good platform that just needed some refinement. Instead, we got the present clusterf***."]
"4 years ago AC was mature and the flight model was tuned around it, the PU new and the flight model didn't have anything that it would require like atmospheric flight, long distance after-burner, planetary non-flat landing etc, even the mav thrusters only had one real type there was not really the differentiation between fixed and rotating type from what I recall... As more and more locations and requirements for the flight model come in, more and more work will be done on it to ensure it works in all cases and doesn't just flip-out because you are flying through a gas nebula because they want it to still work like an arcade in AC.
Should AC get new bigger maps to cater for the high after-burner speeds? Should AC have it's own Arcade flight model and the PU it's own realistic one which you can flip between in AC if you want to do flight training and not just play it like an Arcade game? I don't know - I'd love to get my 350R's Knife-Fighter feeling back, but does that actually work in the game without making the pilot pass out 100% of the time? (G-safe sucks, vote #Anti-G for your Origin ships for comfortable high-G pleasurable comfortable no G-LOC flight!)"
I have always been of the opinion that if they plug the coolers into the engines and if you go over SCM speed it puts the cooling into the engines and effects weapons performance it would force pilots in to fighting at the slow speeds CIG seem to want everyone to be battling at. Would effect zoom and boom tactic though.
Here is it:
[In response to "My major beef with CIG is with the flight experience which has deteriorated dramatically over the past few years. They had a good platform that just needed some refinement. Instead, we got the present clusterf***."]
"4 years ago AC was mature and the flight model was tuned around it, the PU new and the flight model didn't have anything that it would require like atmospheric flight, long distance after-burner, planetary non-flat landing etc, even the mav thrusters only had one real type there was not really the differentiation between fixed and rotating type from what I recall... As more and more locations and requirements for the flight model come in, more and more work will be done on it to ensure it works in all cases and doesn't just flip-out because you are flying through a gas nebula because they want it to still work like an arcade in AC.
Should AC get new bigger maps to cater for the high after-burner speeds? Should AC have it's own Arcade flight model and the PU it's own realistic one which you can flip between in AC if you want to do flight training and not just play it like an Arcade game? I don't know - I'd love to get my 350R's Knife-Fighter feeling back, but does that actually work in the game without making the pilot pass out 100% of the time? (G-safe sucks, vote #Anti-G for your Origin ships for comfortable high-G pleasurable comfortable no G-LOC flight!)"
I have always been of the opinion that if they plug the coolers into the engines and if you go over SCM speed it puts the cooling into the engines and effects weapons performance it would force pilots in to fighting at the slow speeds CIG seem to want everyone to be battling at. Would effect zoom and boom tactic though.
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I like Noobifier's videos but one thing I have learned from Star Citizen is game development is HARD. I feel Noobifier has fallen into the trap that many of us have fallen into. All these promises and features are going to take longer to develop than we hoped. A LOT longer.
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Radegast74
Space Marshal
I have a lot of sympathy for people who "remember the old days", I started playing in 2.5, and I liked it! But it is clear we have something more now.
I'll just come out and say, Star Citizen > space fighter combat.
In fact, the whole of Star Citizen is much, much greater than just space fighter combat.
I do think a couple of things were better in the old days, but you know what? CIG is still working on the game, and I'm sure that they will continue to make improvements. So, I'm not going to get all excited or upset about things until a (much) later date.
I'll just come out and say, Star Citizen > space fighter combat.
In fact, the whole of Star Citizen is much, much greater than just space fighter combat.
I do think a couple of things were better in the old days, but you know what? CIG is still working on the game, and I'm sure that they will continue to make improvements. So, I'm not going to get all excited or upset about things until a (much) later date.
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In regard to the above I think you are right.
A lot of things along with the flight model conspired to alienate people from AC.
- No matching in games meant you could be in an Aurora up against Sabers and Super Hornets.
- Combined with the flight model uncoupled stick users could pull off tricks that absolutely no other player could.
- Meta chasing meant if you were not flying the OP Meta ship carrying the latest loadout, Sledges, Omniskys, Scatter-guns, you'd not be able to compete.
- Orgs with comms outside of the game could dominate a match with as little as 3 players.
- The better the few became the less engaged the many became until it was just the few playing, sat waiting for a match to start that no one else wanted to join.
When they started blockading CryAstro 42 in the PU demanding a flight model change I commented they were victims of their own success "He looked upon AC, and with fists and teeth clenched exclaimed 'There are no more worlds left to conquer, for we are truly the destroyer of worlds,' "
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Crimsontarget
Captain
Yes, you are correct. This is a much better way to state what I meant. Thanks.
I can not agree with this.
There are MANY thing in the Real World today that I wish were the way they used to be....
Some things change for the better...... Some do not.
The Dying Star map has already been enlarged and the broken Moon map is being worked on.
I don't agree with this video. I still have my old flight videos.
View: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=SDvpPCtljVM
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It looks great, plays great, in a closed environment, but would be terrible for the PU we have right now. The only thing I miss is the weightiness of the flight. You can even see it in the video. That would be nice to have back.
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It looks great, plays great, in a closed environment, but would be terrible for the PU we have right now. The only thing I miss is the weightiness of the flight. You can even see it in the video. That would be nice to have back.