Good Article on CIG's Financials

[Wolfy]

https://www.space4games.com/en/star-citizen-en/star-citzen-squadron-42-financials/id-2826/#all-money-goes-into-development

I highly recommend giving it a good read-through, it's a fair look at the data CIG released. Note that it is not technical in nature, just a relative breakdown.

 

[Vavrik]

Very good read. Thank you!

 

[FZD]

With the width and depth of information CIG has published about their finances, that feels almost unprecedented for a major game development. At least, I can't think of any examples apart from possibly a few small indie titles. Quite happy they did so, I rather like knowing the whole situation.

 

[August]

I would be in favour of seeing SQ42 being released on consoles

 

[Mushin]

Id be surprised to see the number of staff increase after beta starts. To be honest, I feel like 600 - 650 staff is going to be the top end number of staff CIG is going to employ. I could be incorrect but more often than not, once a portion of the project is complete in project management, those staff are generally laid off or their contracts are not renewed. Having upwards of 900 staff seems far to high based on the timelines provided.

 

[Kiladyn]

I wouldnt mind SQ42 on consoles as well, but that should be on the back log, console commands are way different. It could also bring more people to PC and SC.

 

[Montoya]

I would be in favour of seeing SQ42 being released on consoles

Perhaps in 3yrs from now there will be a console that can run it!

 

[August]

Perhaps in 3yrs from now there will be a console that can run it!

https://neogaf.com/threads/gran-turismo-sport-running-at-8k-120fps-and-possibly-on-a-ps5-dev-kit.1468634/

 

[Phil]

I don't know....

2015 - 50.45 spent, 44.61 made
2016 - 45.01 spent, 44.89 made
2017 - 48.86 spent, 43.84 made
2018 - 50.96 spent, 45.91 made sold 10% for 46 million = 91.91 (roughly)
2019 projected - 65.5 spent 45.91 expected income.

Looks like a lot of red to me, they sold that 10% to keep it going, 14 million surplus when you are averaging 45-50 million a year is nothing. I expect another sell out in 2019 to get 42 done it will be interesting to see what happens as its going to get hairy in the next 2 years before 42 goes live. I hope it works out I just see these numbers and my gut says things have to change, some promises will be broken to finish this.

 

[Printimus]

looks like we need to buy more space pixels, boys!

 

[Rear_Intruder]

I don't know....

2015 - 50.45 spent, 44.61 made
2016 - 45.01 spent, 44.89 made
2017 - 48.86 spent, 43.84 made
2018 - 50.96 spent, 45.91 made sold 10% for 46 million = 91.91 (roughly)
2019 projected - 65.5 spent 45.91 expected income.

Looks like a lot of red to me, they sold that 10% to keep it going, 14 million surplus when you are averaging 45-50 million a year is nothing. I expect another sell out in 2019 to get 42 done it will be interesting to see what happens as its going to get hairy in the next 2 years before 42 goes live. I hope it works out I just see these numbers and my gut says things have to change, some promises will be broken to finish this.

Phil,
When you factor in the profit they made in the years before 2015 (which you missed out) The position is better than you paint it to be. I also disagree that 14 Mil surplus is 'nothing' as up until now they have not been a profit making company, we will see if that changes with the investors all though my guess is that they will be paid a dividend from the SQ42 release.

The article makes a few guesses, the one that stands out is presuming that staff numbers will go up at the same rate (leading to the 65 mill projection). However they have enough money to last them until the middle of 2020 even if they do not raise another dollar. If you then consider the expected money that they will make in pledges ETC things look very good as long as SQ42 goes well. The SQ42 release and sales will be crucial. I agree with you that if they sell of any more shares it will be a time to be more concerned, but we may see that coming by watching the cash raised counter on the website. I think the UK company has to produce accounts in the spring so that will be interesting.

The big thing in these accounts for me was the clarification on the yearly costs, I only saw one person suggest that they would be over 45 Mill, most guesses where 20-25mil.

 

[Phil]

Even without the new hires their average costs were 45 million, with 42 coming the costs will go up to make the deadline not down imo, there is a reason they sold 10% of their shares and that is the cost, they were in the red 4 years in a row without selling the stock, sure that 46 million gives them some wiggle room now but without it its doubtful they would have made it two years for 42's release without cutting some costs on the production or the crew neither of which they can prolly lose with a deadline on the horizon. But we keep hearing how CR has a plan and its all worked out I really hope its true but if it was all planned why did he sell 10% of his company just to stay afloat? And yes I think they had to sell it to get 42 done, SC will be another issue altogether based on how much they can bank on 42.

At the current rate they were going the 14 million would have been eaten up for 42 and nothing left to cushion SC without major cut backs their own records show this I am only going off of what is in front of me, that's 3 years in the red and 2018 would have been red as well if not for the selling of 10% of the company and if even if they don't hire in 2019 based on their spending vs income its going to be red again unless something changes which is possible which is why they sold 10% of the company.

Don't get me wrong I am not saying the game is going to fail or something but as I said years ago this game was going to be in trouble the longer it went on, I love SC and CR and the whole idea of this game I have put over 1k of my own $$ into it and that is not even counting the thousands on computer hardware etc... just to run the game and I am here for the long haul like most of us that being said I will always call stuff out like I see it, right or wrong its just an opinion and some guess work, but imo before SC goes live more drastic stuff will come to me this is just the beginning that is what my gut tells me and again I have been wrong many times before and hope I am again! :P

Please this is not a hate rant or a fear monger post just a prediction. This game will be finished one way or the other I just hope its on CR's and its backers terms.

Side note - I really need to find another game to play, I am just surfing forums finding shit to complain about lmao........ Sorry guys I am just really really bored atm!!!

 

[Rear_Intruder]

Phil your figures are incorrect and hence your conclusions may be, also CIG have never been in the red

Ave costs have never been 45 Million and even with the (projected) extra staff will not be. In fact they are- 2012-2017 32 mil, 2012-2018 39.3 mil. 2012-2019 42.6 mil
Ave income has always been higher.

CIG have never been in the red. At the end of each year they take into account their balance which has always been positive and put it towards the next year.

I know some good drinking games if it will help

 

[Phil]

As I have said before looking at CIG's records they posted, its pretty clear they were in the red, surplus or not their annual spending was over their annual income its right there in black and white, red and blue and whatever else color they used. From 2014 to 2017 they spent anywhere from 35 million to 50 million now I didn't use a calculator but its pretty close to 40-45 mill average.

 

[Vavrik]

As I have said before looking at CIG's records they posted, its pretty clear they were in the red, surplus or not their annual spending was over their annual income its right there in black and white, red and blue and whatever else color they used. From 2014 to 2017 they spent anywhere from 35 million to 50 million now I didn't use a calculator but its pretty close to 40-45 mill average.

You're correct, CIG is saying they lost money since 2014, but it actually looks better than most gaming projects i've seen for over a decade.
Math works.

Total Income 207,569,000
Total Expenses 193,340,000
Profit/(Loss) 14,229,000

So, marginally in the black, which is about where they should be. Could make some predictions from this. They're not going to be weaned from ship sales any time soon, or they need to trim staff.. sorry, i mean expenditures, or some other plan.

 

[Wolfy]

In the black for an in development project is actually extremely, extremely rare.

 

[Phil]

I just still can't believe 42 is going to be 2020 quarter 4 launch lmao, SC itself is most likely 2 years later, were talking 2022 how more much funding they can get out of this crowd I just don't know. As it is I have paid monthly fee going on 3 years now for something I barely log into I am excited for this to get done but when I see stuff like this it kind of upsets me to think after all this time it will come down to money. I am crossing my fingers hoping this gets done as promised but my gut tells me no way in hell without selling out or breaking some promises.

 

[Rear_Intruder]

Phil, as we more or less agree on the facts, and only disagree about the definition of 'in the red' I will not comment further on that.

 

[Phil]

Phil, as we more or less agree on the facts, and only disagree about the definition of 'in the red' I will not comment further on that.

Its not a disagreement, red is red, facts are facts brother, income vs money spent = profit or loss.

"The expression "in the red" generally is used to describe a business that is operating at a loss. ... Green means you have an operating profit, black means you are around break-even and red means you don't have enough revenue to meet operating expenses."

3 years in a row they have operated at a loss, one year I would argue is black, surplus has nothing to do with it, selling your companies stock has nothing to do with it. Lets just hope these next few years are not a repeat and they don't have to sell anymore of the company to get it done.

 

[Rear_Intruder]

Okay. since you insist.
This week (week 1) you get 6 eggs but do not use any,
Next week (week 2) you still have the six eggs, but do not get any more, in that week you use 4 eggs.
In week 2 you are not in the red for eggs as you still have 2 left

See what I mean we have different definitions. You are referring to individual years, I am referring to the entire history of the company. Both measures have their uses.

In the red is slang term so maybe it means something different were you live than were I live.