I was honestly not sure if I really needed an 890J...

Wolfy

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Shields do not affect ballistics. They go right through to the hull, and if that hull is not military, you should expect it to cough and die in just an instant under the HH's guns. Hull and armor are the only defense against ballistics.

You can see this prejudice for military designs v civilian all across the game despite armor is not implemented yet. For instance, look here:


Compare the Vanguard Hoplite, with hull 26,800 and shields 14,584 against the Cutty Black with hull 3,880 and shields 7,292. This is the kind of difference CIG intends for the game, and why I am always urging people to keep in mind the difference between civilian and military designs when it comes to combat. Yes, you can use a luxury yacht in combat, but no, it's generally a very bad idea against a military design.

IMHO.
First, no one said using it as a combat ship, it ss designed to survive. Second, you are wrong about them not affecting ballistics. They effect the damage output of those ballistics with very minimal power draw compared to laser and disruption weapons, between 20% and 60% damage reduction. With the 890 having 2 capital sized shields and the devs saying that will be above regular civilian class by default it is unlikely the HH can output enough damage by itself to cripple or disrupt the 890's ability to get away, which is the point of the ship. Not only that but the HH is by nature a fleet ship with limited solo patrolling ability, while the 890 is outfitted for significant distance. It can afford the run away, the HH cannot afford to chase it.
 

Bambooza

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MrBambooza
I gotta say I also love the look of both the Polaris and Carrack! I can't see owning both, becasue I really want a ship to call home, so I gotta go with the Polaris. Not just because of the guns and toprs, but because I always have a need for speed, and I want to see how fast I can make the big bird go.

BTW, I have that Polaris shot above as the background on my laptop. I love that shot! I think what we are going to find when we look at movement in atmosphere with big birds is the Polaris is dangerous and the Idris is not. I think people will do well to keep the Idris in space where it belongs, except unelss they're landing an assualt force or some such. They actually made an effort with the Polaris toward an airframe, with atmospheric control surfaces, but the Idris lacks these so it looks to me the Polaris is going to be the king of atmospheric conflict, at least until the next Corvette class is revealed.
Still not sure I will be taking my Polaris into atmosphere with any chance of combat as I imagine its size will make its movement performance pitiful and thus more of a sitting duck to small strike craft.

Will fine out come 3.5 and the new flight model how ships like the Eclipse and Retaliator handle atmospheric flight and I imagine i'll be more incline to use them when striking targets planet side then the Polaris. But will see once the Polaris is introduced to the game. I do know I plan on teaming up with other Polaris and Hammerhead captains to go hunting as it still seems to be an amazing combo.
 
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Bambooza

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First, no one said using it as a combat ship, it ss designed to survive. Second, you are wrong about them not affecting ballistics. They effect the damage output of those ballistics with very minimal power draw compared to laser and disruption weapons, between 20% and 60% damage reduction. With the 890 having 2 capital sized shields and the devs saying that will be above regular civilian class by default it is unlikely the HH can output enough damage by itself to cripple or disrupt the 890's ability to get away, which is the point of the ship. Not only that but the HH is by nature a fleet ship with limited solo patrolling ability, while the 890 is outfitted for significant distance. It can afford the run away, the HH cannot afford to chase it.

I agree if the HH is not able to sneak into range of the 890J then it will never be able to engage. Now if a HH is able to do a sneak attack against an 890J I am not sure what the outcome will be. Either way @Wolfy pleasure palace will be well protected and well supplied with replacement parts from those foolish Captains who have not pledged their devotion to the supreme rule of Montoya.
 

Wolfy

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I agree if the HH is not able to sneak into range of the 890J then it will never be able to engage. Now if a HH is able to do a sneak attack against an 890J I am not sure what the outcome will be. Either way @Wolfy pleasure palace will be well protected and well supplied with replacement parts from those foolish Captains who have not pledged their devotion to the supreme rule of Montoya.
TESTquisition has a Kraken fully loaded as well as an Endeavor dedicated to healing injured Agents of the Throne and developing biological agents to speed the death of all non-TESTie xenos and heretics.

Burn the Heretic, Purge the Alien, Bask in Montoya's Holy light. For he hath delivered us from the dark depravity of the void and cast our glorious empire in the winged light of his grace. Stay drunk, my brethren.
 

Wolfy

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WolfytheWarlock
Are you sure about this? I was pretty sure that shields stop projectiles. Or at the very least slow them down considerably to reduce damage.
Depending on strength they cause a 20%-60% damage reduction. They also do way, way less damage to shields than laser and disruption weapons, so the shields stay up much longer and at much higher power.
 

Shadow Reaper

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With the 890 having 2 capital sized shields and the devs saying that will be above regular civilian class by default it is unlikely the HH can output enough damage by itself to cripple or disrupt the 890's ability to get away, which is the point of the ship.
Let's hope you're right, but it will be the rare ship that can take an assault from an HH and shrug it off.

Honestly, were I an 890 owner, I would be far less worried about some griefer shooting up my ship than I would be about pirates. The game is designed to punish bad behavior. We still need to see how that works out, but I'm pretty sure CIG intends to put the hammer down on indiscriminate criminal behaviors. The real problem seems to me is not someone coming and shooting up such a nice ship, but rather if they have a motive beyond malice. Fortune and glory is fine, but wealth is better. Were I a pirate, I'd be hunting 890s anywhere outside the UEE core.

The 890 has 2 medium computers, so one presumes you can shut one down during any sort of distortion attack--EMP, missiles, guns, mines or hack (is this a thing? conflicting stories here), and pop the secondary on the instant the first goes out. Still, the 890 is all full of pride, flash and glamour. Who wouldn't want to take one? Right now it looks like any Sentinel can launch a couple Arrester IIIs and an accompanying Hoplite can land troops. No matter how fast they make the 890, it's not going to outrun S3 missiles and Vanguards. How would one fare against 7-8 boarders, especially if they were all PCs? THATS what I'd be concerned with if I owned an 890. Matters are worse if they make an S5 Arrester that can be launched from an Eclipse, with a Prowler attending. That's a prescription for disaster for almost any player crewed ship, and the more you're worth, or what you are hauling is worth, the bigger the bullseye painted on you.

So just reminding of what I have said before--if you know you are going to be boarded, in the last second before you expect the computer to go down, like there are incoming missiles from a Sentinel--rotate as hard as you can on whatever axis rotates fastest (probably roll for the 890) and decouple. If your ship is rotating in space when its systems go down, it will be much, much harder to board. Thing is, you're deciding what to do in that last second. Do you try to shoot the missiles down, or rotate? Is a hard call.
 
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Vavrik

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We still need to see how that works out, but I'm pretty sure CIG intends to put the hammer down on indiscriminate criminal behaviors. The real problem seems to me is not someone coming and shooting up such a nice ship, but rather if they have a motive beyond malice. Fortune and glory is fine, but wealth is better. Were I a pirate, I'd be hunting 890s anywhere outside the UEE core.
I'm thinking about the griefer, vs the pirate. The problem is the actions of both are very similar, and I don't think there's going to be a really easy way to tell the difference. This was something that I thought about before joining SC, but my conclusion was basically it's a PVP game. The way the economy works is a little odd, because piracy and griefing can end up with real world consequences if someone wants to continue playing after losing a single encounter. Those of us with multiple ships have a distinct advantage in this too, so yeah the game is panning out as pay-to-win also.
 

Shadow Reaper

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Well a pirate might hold up a ship for ransom. CIG has said that. I think though most often, the issue is boarding and taking the cargo intact. The 890 has a decent cargo hold and the ship itself is worth so much, it is a prime candidate for boarding. Really anything that size is top of the list, even the Polaris. I think though for most pirates, the Carrack will be the target of choice since it is designed for those far away places, and the Hull series are going to get pestered anywhere there is no real force of law. Connies will be taken often, but the bigger ships like the BMM, the Starfarer and StarG, Reclaimers, Endeavors, Orions. . .all sweet peaches waiting to be plucked.

Pirates have nothing to gain by blowing up ships. If you want to play a pirate just so there are no consequences for griefing, well you can do that but CIG does plan to make life difficult for the outlaws. There are lots of benefits they just don't obtain. You can't get honest work and insurance on stolen ships is supposed to be very expensive. It has to be a pain in the ass to have players hunting you all the time. Certainly if the pay is good, I'll be happy to chase down players who kill indiscriminately, and odds are good that will offer very good pay.
 

Bambooza

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I'm thinking about the griefer, vs the pirate. The problem is the actions of both are very similar, and I don't think there's going to be a really easy way to tell the difference. This was something that I thought about before joining SC, but my conclusion was basically it's a PVP game. The way the economy works is a little odd, because piracy and griefing can end up with real world consequences if someone wants to continue playing after losing a single encounter. Those of us with multiple ships have a distinct advantage in this too, so yeah the game is panning out as pay-to-win also.
Indeed no way to easily differentiate the two, but if the developers make sure the cost of being nefarious is high enough then it should help to self regulate as those who are just griefers will run out of funds quickly were pirates will need to pick and choose their targets carefully so as to make sure the spoils worth are more then the cost invested.
 

DorianSkyphire

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Well a pirate might hold up a ship for ransom. CIG has said that. I think though most often, the issue is boarding and taking the cargo intact. The 890 has a decent cargo hold and the ship itself is worth so much, it is a prime candidate for boarding. Really anything that size is top of the list, even the Polaris. I think though for most pirates, the Carrack will be the target of choice since it is designed for those far away places, and the Hull series are going to get pestered anywhere there is no real force of law. Connies will be taken often, but the bigger ships like the BMM, the Starfarer and StarG, Reclaimers, Endeavors, Orions. . .all sweet peaches waiting to be plucked.

Pirates have nothing to gain by blowing up ships. If you want to play a pirate just so there are no consequences for griefing, well you can do that but CIG does plan to make life difficult for the outlaws. There are lots of benefits they just don't obtain. You can't get honest work and insurance on stolen ships is supposed to be very expensive. It has to be a pain in the ass to have players hunting you all the time. Certainly if the pay is good, I'll be happy to chase down players who kill indiscriminately, and odds are good that will offer very good pay.

Have they talked about how piracy will work, if someone takes a ship hostage, strips it of all fuel/components/cargo.. but leaves the ship intact and kills no one? Do those pirates still get a flag of some sort?
 

Wolfy

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Have they talked about how piracy will work, if someone takes a ship hostage, strips it of all fuel/components/cargo.. but leaves the ship intact and kills no one? Do those pirates still get a flag of some sort?
It's planned that if you board someone ship without permission you get a crimestat and if you take components it will trigger a theft crimestat as well.

Edit: Disabling a ship would mean attacking it, which triggers criminal status as well.
 
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Bambooza

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It's planned that if you board someone ship without permission you get a crimestat and if you take components it will trigger a theft crimestat as well.

Edit: Disabling a ship would mean attacking it, which triggers criminal status as well.
Yep. What will be interesting is how they allow for pirates to bring down satellite and how doing so will effect the application of crimestat. They have hinted that taking down the sat com will prevent calling for help.
 

SoloFlyer

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I can get behind the not being able to call for help if a satellite is down, that adds to the gameplay I guess, relying on your friends/org mates to come to the rescue. But I'm not sure how I feel about eliminating the application of the crimestat. There has to be some set, non-avoidable penalty that helps prevent flat out griefing, at least in safe space IMO
 

GarikDuvall

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TESTquisition has a Kraken fully loaded as well as an Endeavor dedicated to healing injured Agents of the Throne and developing biological agents to speed the death of all non-TESTie xenos and heretics.

Burn the Heretic, Purge the Alien, Bask in Montoya's Holy light. For he hath delivered us from the dark depravity of the void and cast our glorious empire in the winged light of his grace. Stay drunk, my brethren.
This just got me all riled up and tingly in me nethers! One, as my Endeavor Hope will be available for this holiest of duties in our fight against the counter-revolutionaries, and two... if they make biological weapons a thing later, I am definitely making an alt who will specialize in that.
 
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Wolfy

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WolfytheWarlock
Can we all stop arguing over pretend spaceships? What do you think this is - the Internet?
No.
This just got me all riled up and tingly in me nethers! One, as my Endeavor Hope will be available for this holiest of duties in our fight against the counter-revolutionaries, and two... if they make biological weapons a thing later, I am definitely making an alt who will specialize in that.
You are Requested for duty then, report to your nearest TESTquisition indoctrination center.
 

Shadow Reaper

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Shadow Reaper
Have they talked about how piracy will work, if someone takes a ship hostage, strips it of all fuel/components/cargo.. but leaves the ship intact and kills no one? Do those pirates still get a flag of some sort?
Yes. As Wolfie said, though I would add that there are two kinds of possible exceptions. First off is criminal actions of all sorts may be acceptable if they are not done inside the UEE and not against UEE members. We'll have to wait and see, but it seems to me unlikely that those attacking the Banu, the Outsiders and certainly the Vanduul, would gain a crimestat. This is in fact why Vanduul ships have a self-destruct, so players can't easily enrich themselves by preying upon them. Note, UEE ships do not have self destruct capability.

The second possibility for boarding without a crimestat would be against criminal targets: slavers, smugglers, pirates, etc. Much of this is bounty work. No one has said yet who gets the ship when you capture a bounty, or if you take it from a pirate or slaver. I intend to investigate this fully once the mechanics come into game. I love the idea of privateering, but not the idea of a crimestat, so bounty hunting gone wild where you get to keep the ship sounds good to me. Slavers. . .kill them and keep their ships I say! And I just know those Outsiders have a Polaris that belongs to me.
 
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