Insurance and “rare” Components
- Thread starter Shadow Reaper
- Start date
I personally don't see this as a problem. If you're attacking someone, you need to also be taking risk just like who you're attacking. Anyone who doesn't like the risk needs to be playing a different game.
CIG on the other hand needs to fix the game - it's broken, to the point of "barely playable if at all".
Richard Bong
Space Marshal
I see this as one more change that isn't ready for prime time.
Ehh... not really a fan of this. Like sure, now there's bit of an extra risk for the attacking side, but the rewards for the attacking side got buffed way more.
Like what's the risk you're taking if you're in a stock Cutlass Black harassing smaller haulers and miners that can't afford escorts? Basically nothing. But now you're getting 235k mining heads and 50k power plants (default for prospector). Vulture power plants + coolers + quantum drive total also 105k by default.
Idk, seems like the incentive for piracy just skyrockets. At this rate, even I'll be going "yar har har" -ing around.
Like what's the risk you're taking if you're in a stock Cutlass Black harassing smaller haulers and miners that can't afford escorts? Basically nothing. But now you're getting 235k mining heads and 50k power plants (default for prospector). Vulture power plants + coolers + quantum drive total also 105k by default.
Idk, seems like the incentive for piracy just skyrockets. At this rate, even I'll be going "yar har har" -ing around.
Just going back to the way it always used to be - Stock everything.
The way we use to handle this was get a ship with the components you want stock and use it as a donor for your ride of choice. When you claim on your stock ride claim on the donors too and mix and match back to the craft you always wanted.
What i want to know is what happens with your 300 series with it's optional extra parts pack. My 350r SP pack has the Distortion Repeaters I want without having to piss about going all over the damn place picking up parts and I'd be peeved if the Zero Hour only got the paid-for goodies once and then went back to a stock setup.
The way we use to handle this was get a ship with the components you want stock and use it as a donor for your ride of choice. When you claim on your stock ride claim on the donors too and mix and match back to the craft you always wanted.
What i want to know is what happens with your 300 series with it's optional extra parts pack. My 350r SP pack has the Distortion Repeaters I want without having to piss about going all over the damn place picking up parts and I'd be peeved if the Zero Hour only got the paid-for goodies once and then went back to a stock setup.
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Eventually, this will be considered insurance fraud and could result in you losing your LTI insurance or the ability to ensure the ship at all.
Anyone earning a living by attacking miners who get it, is going to starve to death, it's being done all wrong. Also I'm not entirely sure where your prices for mining heads comes from, but you can buy 10 Lancets for less than 235K aUEC. If we're mining quantanium, we're not in the mood to stop and chat about your wants and desires no matter what you think. We have 15 minutes from the time the first molecule of quant was extracted to either store the ship or deliver the ore to a refinery. That's non negotiable, that's quant. You also might want to get some distance between you and the load of quantanium.
It's suppose to go back to its default state as purchased. Which is why some of the variants are nice as that's the default state for them.
I'm sorry, I don't follow. Piracy will be insurance fraud?
Y'know, now that I'm double checking, I'm not that sure myself. Probably read 23.5k as 235k. Well, there's still 108k Helixes, which is half as good anyhow.
Oh, that's old piracy. You don't need to stop to negotiate now. You just blast them and loot their components. Use them on your own ship, saving you the cost of that component. Or just sell it. Any cargo you get is just a bonus.
No taking components from one ship you own, installing it in another, and then reclaiming the donor ship to duplicate/replace the components you ‘borrowed” could be considered insurance fraud/duping/etc. At best, you lose LTI and the ability to insure the ship. At worst, they give you a ban for duping items.
sorry, I had meant to quote NNBF
So I might loose my SP pack add-ons, might be time to finally meet the old gal and get myself a Tonk.
Richard Bong
Space Marshal
You were supposed to be able to insure add on components, contents and even cargo.
If I add parts to my car, like a new engine, or stereo, they get added to the policy. If my computer is stolen from my car, I'm covered. If I'm driving a U-Haul full of my furniture, it's covered.
In the real world, these things are covered. Now stolen parts, or things that make my car less safe are not covered.
So once more we go away from realism for the purposes of "fun."
no you won't loose anything that's already on the ship by defualt. What you will be getting on a claim is what's listed in your hangar. If your 300 has a size 10 planet megahulklazor upgrade listed next to it in you hangar page, then you will receieve that ship with the listed megahulklazor every time.
Wish I went for the nespresso package back then, my 300i feels useless and outdated without one now...
I'm with @Richard Bong on this one, this is absolutely not ready for prime time. This should not be a thing while we can loose everything every time a server decides to take a nap (so every 5 minutes at the moment) or granma picks up the phone and you lose connection... At least they should make this a complete insurance system where you can insure the extra stuff and cargo if you want to, preferably in a convenient way. Tick a box to "add x months insurance" when buying stuff and/or from the mobiglass.
Yes, but it is a necessary precursor to perishable sub-components like sensor buffs, so the earlier we make this switch, the sooner we move to things like replaceable component sensors, which is something many have waited on for years.
No, if you'll recall; the original intent was to not insure anything but the base components that come with the ship. This was how it was for years. That intention was suspended for special reasons so now we're getting back to the intent. If we were to stay with the system we have, this would lead to farming rare components and subcomponents that can only be had through missions. We have never had rare components save things like the Sukoran shields from Banu and Esperia products. In order to place rare items in game, CIG has to implement loss of insurance on those products or they would not credibly be considered "rare".
So IMHO, this is a step in the right direction despite you'll lose your cool gear when your ship gets blown up. Exceptions are the Sukorans because they come stock with ships purchased, but you have to pay for a Banu Defender in order to fly Sukorans in your Vanguard. That's serious pesos. As Morph notes, this affects PvPers and especially pirates the most, but it will be a burden on everyone who owns and runs top level and rare components. It also means that ships that come with class A items, stealth items, military items or any items you would not want to replace will be worth substantially more. The MSR and 400i will be better value because players love the Panthers they come with, etc.
I have made a post over in spectrum on how they should implement insurance on cargo, personal items and ship upgrades prior to this. Feel free to comment/make suggestions/improvements
https://robertsspaceindustries.com/spectrum/community/SC/forum/7/thread/ship-insurance-5/5918487
https://robertsspaceindustries.com/spectrum/community/SC/forum/7/thread/ship-insurance-5/5918487
Forgive me for not having read your post, but I need to ask, you do realize the reason CIG has given that you can't insure cargo is that no players would then hire escorts and turret gunners, which is the play they want to support. If there's no threat of losing cargo then there's no excitement in shipping. Haulers need to curse the pirates and hate them, and then plan for them.
CIG has previously stated there would be component upgrade and cargo insurance. Honestly, without it, it would be a pretty horrible game because you would end up grinding 5-10 of the best items and then having to re-grind them after your character is perma dead. That's a pretty un-inspired game.
Cargo should have much of the money returned, but you still lose some, you won't make any profit, and you still need to go back out and pick up the cargo and try again.
What prevents people from hiring escorts and turret gunners isn't that cargo runners are cheap, it's the fact that you can't make they money needed to hire these players away from spamming hard/very hard bounty hunter missions, mining, salvaging, etc.
Let's say I need to pay for 5 people. 3 to crew my ship as gunners, 2 to provide escort, that means I need to provide the output of 3-5 very hard bounty hunter missions every hour at a minimum, if not every 15 minutes. that's 50-400k every hour for expenses, IF NOT MORE. (I've heard of people making 700k an hour doing solo BH mission). Most traders won't make that much. It also runs the risk of someone you hired shooting you in the back of the head (this is a huge problem for SC) for your cargo.
Then you have the loss of cargo anyway every one in a while just because...SC...and your ship doesn't store properly.
If SC really wants to attract players to play cooperatively...give them the tools to be able to trust people. How many times have I heard "shoot them before they shoot you" when encountering a person in SC. So much that if I had a half penny for each time, I would be very rich.
Allow traders to make enough money to hire people away from BH missions (or make BH a lot less lucrative), or piracy/salvage of other players, and you will get your gunners. Until then, trade folks just can't afford to hire all those people.
I understand, but all of the economy will be adjusted when we hit Beta. Hauling profits will necessarily be raised,at least in dangerous space. (Note we don't even have the distinction between safe and dangerous space yet.) Like it or not, CIG has been clear that they intend all haulers operating outside "safe" space, to hire escorts and gunners. Players aren't taking this to account because they're grinding in a game that is not yet a game, and they're doing more than okay. We've seen players that mine and haul that have made hundreds of millions and that can't happen unless they're flying without a safety net.
I have been wrong about what I think I recall before, but I'm about as sure as I can be that CIG was very clear years ago, that they would not offer cargo insurance because this would thwart the need for escorts and turret gunners, which leaves turrets with no reason to be. That makes sense to me. It should be a careful decision just how many turrets to fill on any given hauling run. Players who are contended to crew a single ship over long periods of time need to be rewarded for this, yet want to pressure the captain to take risky missions for more pay. If CIG can't manage to create this level of intricacy, players won't reasonably want to crew the cool ships they designed. We might argue, that players risking their lives 24/7 on FPS missions should as mercs make more than haulers, who have some varied statistical threat. Managing that threat is going to be like threading the needle for CIG and I think we'll always see complaints about it just like we always see union members fighting for better pay--but such is the stuff of life. Creative tension and all that. . .
Perhaps the stickiest issue of all is how to enforce "safe" space. NPCs are not enough. The bounties on pirates will need to be huge, especially on pirates doing crime in "safe" space. Very likely, the best paying job in game will be Ace Pilot flying bounties on pirates in safe space. The best pirates will be making these nasty dangerous incursions to safe space, and hunted by Aces with F8s. And really this is just as it should be. Even safe space should not always be safe, but pirates should have bounties on their heads that get activated the moment they enter safe space. This is the only way I see to control the troll--hunt 'em and kill 'em dead on sight.
Finally note too, that players need to be motivated not just by profits, but by storylines. One might reasonably pass on the best paying jobs because they're after fame, or justice, or revenge. You might make less supplying the battle front with the Vanduul than other high risk hauls in risky space, yet choose the battlefront hauls because you're after the prestige of contributing to the defense of humanity. I think players haven't even begun to think in terms of fame, and that's going to be a serious motivator, especially when players get tired of piling up cash they can have no reasonable way to spend.
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Richard Bong
Space Marshal
There are lots of other things they could be working on before this. Like real interactions, NPCs that aren't limited to a single "room," or adjusting the flight model for broken ships, or tier 1 anything. The game isn't stable enough for this.
As for "always?" Nope, for the past 6 years it has been you will be allowed additional insurance to cover add ons and contents. (In the real world they're called riders.)
Richard Bong
Space Marshal
Now this they could complete before they take the current planned steps.