MISC Expanse QnA

Vavrik

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It's going to take a bit to get used to the Expanse's mechanics, but it should work nicely supporting a couple of Prospectors. Quantanium might cause a little problem for fleet logistics though, but I don't see them flying alone. The Prospector and Expanse are definitely fleet ships, working in groups. The role for the Prospector might be even just prospecting for an Orion, and that is going to need a bunch of cargo, fighters and support ships to operate effectively.
... which is going to need a lot more of server meshing to make it worth while, otherwise all 50 people playing on one instance belonging to the same group isn't going to be very exciting.
 
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Sky Captain

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I'm wondering about the 'conservation of sacks.'

Is the idea that for every ore-filled sack that the Expanse takes in that it transfers an empty to the delivering vessel, so that all vessels retain their sack count?

Or can a prospector run out of sacks in this process then have to find more somewhere?
 

NaffNaffBobFace

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I'm wondering about the 'conservation of sacks.'

Is the idea that for every ore-filled sack that the Expanse takes in that it transfers an empty to the delivering vessel, so that all vessels retain their sack count?

Or can a prospector run out of sacks in this process then have to find more somewhere?
If a Sack gets stolen by pirates while it's being transferred to an expanse or while under attack, the Prospector/Mole pilot will have to replenish their sack somewhere... but I think this would be a bit like replenishing missiles or ammo and be included in the ship repair cost at pads...?

Just an assumption but I think that's the way it'd go, unless they intend to have different types of Sack, for example if you needed a lead lined one for radioactive material or a special stabiliser lined one for Quantanium but then it's going to get complicated getting hold of another Sack if you loose yours and may end up with a Sack you don't want to fill with the wrong stones if you find something exciting in a 'roid...?
 
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Bambooza

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It's going to take a bit to get used to the Expanse's mechanics, but it should work nicely supporting a couple of Prospectors. Quantanium might cause a little problem for fleet logistics though, but I don't see them flying alone. The Prospector and Expanse are definitely fleet ships, working in groups. The role for the Prospector might be even just prospecting for an Orion, and that is going to need a bunch of cargo, fighters and support ships to operate effectively.
... which is going to need a lot more of server meshing to make it worth while, otherwise all 50 people playing on one instance belonging to the same group isn't going to be very exciting.
Indeed even 100 players seems to be on the small side. While server meshing helps transfer players from one game area to another its the server side authentication that is limiting the number of players in a given area. Don't get me wrong I am fully in agreement that this is the right design decision as it reduces a lot of cheating avenues but it does put a greater load on the server.

As for the Expanse this Q&A has me more excited for the Orion, as I hope it too gets the ability to tractor beam sacks from the prospector and mole.

If a Sack gets stolen by pirates while it's being transferred to an expanse or while under attack, the Prospector/Mole pilot will have to replenish their sack somewhere... but I think this would be a bit like replenishing missiles or ammo and be included in the ship repair cost at pads...?
They had talked about the sacks being a physical item that can be brought out to the prospector/mole by cargo ships or even I imagine cleaned and returned by the Expanse, but I imagine that cargo ships are going to need to bring them out as they are picking up filled ones either full of raw ore or refined ore. I imagine the same thing will happen with the Orion just much larger containers. But either way, I fully agree with @Vavrik in that mining operations will take lots of different ships and players doing different roles all working together.

 

Mahateja

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X number of prospectors, two MISC Expanse, alternating transport ships to ferry and sell, and advanced security for the op. That sounds fun.
 
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BUTUZ

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I think I need the medium size version of this to keep 2 moles supplied and fed.
 
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minor_accident

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They had talked about the sacks being a physical item that can be brought out to the prospector/mole by cargo ships or even I imagine cleaned and returned by the Expanse, but I imagine that cargo ships are going to need to bring them out as they are picking up filled ones either full of raw ore or refined ore. I imagine the same thing will happen with the Orion just much larger containers. But either way, I fully agree with @Vavrik in that mining operations will take lots of different ships and players doing different roles all working together.
This could be a potential rabbit-hole. If I have a transport that's not dedicated to moving fuel, will I have to buy special containers to hold it? Maybe I'll need different containers for different materials. That would also require the bags to only contain one item type. What if you go looking for A, fill half the hold and can't find more, but come across B? Sorry, one of the bags has one cup full of A in it, tough luck for that bag.

While I know this is how it works IRL much of the time, our mining and transportation are purpose driven. That kind of "mechanic" would make things VERY tedious, IMO.
 
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Thalstan

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Right now, you can hold multiple ore times in a single mining bad. You can have quantanium, laranite, and quartz in a single bag, while another might hold Agricium and bexalite. In the mean time, both bags also have inert materials.

Same is true for cargo containers (as of today). You can go buy 33.2 SCU of Medical supplies and 30.8 SCU of Stims to fill up your 64 SCU load. Now, they used to prevent that and if you had 33.2 SCU of Med supplies, you could only buy 30 SCU of stims, so they might go back to that.

I think they found that while it was realistic, it wasn't "fun"

I think this is just their way of ensuring that sacks are reset, but who knows
 
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Bambooza

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This could be a potential rabbit-hole. If I have a transport that's not dedicated to moving fuel, will I have to buy special containers to hold it? Maybe I'll need different containers for different materials. That would also require the bags to only contain one item type. What if you go looking for A, fill half the hold and can't find more, but come across B? Sorry, one of the bags has one cup full of A in it, tough luck for that bag.

While I know this is how it works IRL much of the time, our mining and transportation are purpose driven. That kind of "mechanic" would make things VERY tedious, IMO.
No clue. While they did have a tech writeup on the ability to open cargo containers and move things around it is unknown if that will work with all things or just some things like a container of guns.

@Thalstan is right in that currently the bags can be filled with all kinds of ore types and are not limited to only one kind. Reading into the refining process it might be beneficial to only have one ore type per bag as it would help to speed up the refining process and increase yield. Right now there seems to be three types of storage, ore, fps ore, and gas, and as Jared has said they like to bring it as close to reality as possible and then tweak it until it's fun. While there is still a lot of unknowns in how mining will work in-game I would wager given its huge potential impact as a primary revenue stream and source of multiplayer interaction it will continue to get lots of attention and layers of complexity.
 
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Thalstan

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The other issue is that it's not currently possible to sort stuff by bags when you mine. So if I am extracting ores, I have no way of saying Quantanium goes in bags 2, 3, and 4, and Quartz goes in bag 1.

Also, because of the way mining works, some extractable rocks contain a mix of materials. So they can be inert, Laranite, and Aluminim, all in the same extraction rock.

So unless CIG changes things so that you only extract a certain mineral, or you have the option to sort and expel all but one type of mineral, then bags will continue to have multiple ores no matter what.

To be honest, I think the design team for the ship didn't really talk to the mining team when they went through the Q&A, otherwise, they would not have answered the way they did. They probably had the "wouldn't it be cool in..." daydream in the heads. If they have talked to the mining team, that could mean a significant change to the mining process in the future.
 
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minor_accident

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@Thalstan is right in that currently the bags can be filled with all kinds of ore types and are not limited to only one kind. Reading into the refining process it might be beneficial to only have one ore type per bag as it would help to speed up the refining process and increase yield. Right now there seems to be three types of storage, ore, fps ore, and gas, and as Jared has said they like to bring it as close to reality as possible and then tweak it until it's fun. While there is still a lot of unknowns in how mining will work in-game I would wager given its huge potential impact as a primary revenue stream and source of multiplayer interaction it will continue to get lots of attention and layers of complexity.
Right. One of the responses I read said something about "rinsing" the quant bags after they were emptied at the refinery. That implies to me the devs are thinking they won't be mixable in the future, which would be a huge pain.

To be honest, I think the design team for the ship didn't really talk to the mining team when they went through the Q&A, otherwise, they would not have answered the way they did. They probably had the "wouldn't it be cool in..." daydream in the heads. If they have talked to the mining team, that could mean a significant change to the mining process in the future.
Kinda like engineers and mechanics!
 
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Vavrik

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Kinda like engineers and mechanics!
Right now, in real life mining...just for example:
When we mine for most metals now, for example copper - it's the refining and smelting process that separates the other stuff in the ore from the copper. That could be cobalt, just for example. It's also a bi-product of mining nickel. If you want to see a pile of things in your ore, including copper and gold (and more), then mine for lead.
 
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