MSR makes MAX and Cutty Black obsolete? Thoughts?

[Ayeteeone]

Hi all

I know the price point is very different... but if you had a Cutty and a MAX, would the MSR not make them both obsolete? So if you had these two, would it not be better to melt them and get a MSR?

My main question:
-Is there anything the MAX and / or Cutty can do that the MSR cannot?

Thanks!

Other than the very basic starter ships, I don't think any ship so far obsoletes any other ship. Hell, even Auroras have a place, if only to be flown into the SUN!

Some good discussion presented in this thread; it's my opinion that as the game systems continue to develop we will see less overlap between ships, not more.

 

[SoloPlayerZA]

Yea for sure!

Im starting to think more about purposes of each ship vs 1 ship to rule them all. I think thats where the “multipurpose” aspects of ships get me. I was always thinking that a ship can do the same as 2 or 3 others so that makes it “better”. I think after this thread Im now more inclined to think that its great it can technically do the same, but it does not make it better - cause all ships will have some sort of drawback.

I hitchhiked in a MSR yesterday and flew it a bit. Its amazing! But boy that hydro fuel drops like crazy and the shields are paperthin. No real pew pew. But I think that that is the point - a well balanced ship should have drawbacks sothat other ships can shine in that area. Hence the point back to purpose of each ship.

I love getting these discussion and thinking points, thank you all once again! You are all great!

 

[CosmicTrader]

- The MAX can be used or with one friend.
(the MSR needs someone in the turrets)
Also, the MAX has easy entry.exit via side air lock.

- The Cutlass Black has the side 'doors' for easy EVA when required. (why criminals/pitares like it)
It is also smaller and more versitile.

Each ship has a 'basic' purpose and it is hard to compare.
If you can only have one ship then I would suggest the Black or MSR, depending on what you can afford.

 

[Cugino83]

It is stock, how could they not know? The whole "dedicated smuggling ship" idea is a rather foolish one, unless you are talking about a Cigarette Boat equivalent, and in that case there is no need for secret compartments.

Well... if you consider RL cases all car and truck are stock (mostly...), but that doesn't mean that if you get into a anotherone car you know every pocket and small spaces that are in there, especially for to you not common vehicle.
Right now every player will know of those spaces since we are all on the subject, but in the future with more ship and more new player that maybe have never seen an MSR before it will be safe to assume they don't know about every spot. Hell I'm the first one for not knowing every spot of every ship, even right now!
For NPC they could have even a worst knowlage of ships: remember that players and ship's owners in general won't be a majority of people, like the owner of a boat or ship today, so it could be that a remote station's custom guard could know an Aurora or a Conny well do to the fact he is more accustom to see them, while a more fancy MSR will be unknown to them.... on the opposite side, trying to sneak something on Crusader with an MSR could be impossibile since is where the ship is manifactured and guard are defenetly more accustom to see them.

 

[Firebrand]

Im starting to think more about purposes of each ship vs 1 ship to rule them all.

This is why the real fun is what your perfect personal fleet would be, a selection of ships that allow you to explore and enjoy the best aspects of the game you enjoy. Multipurpose ships are great, but they'll only ever be a 'Jack of all trades, but a master of none'. There is a ship for every purpose and the right tool for every job. And then there's personal preference! You might not be using the perfect tool for the job, but if that particular ship is what you like, then that's what you should fly. Otherwise there would be one meta-ship and everyone would be flying it to the exclusion of the rest, which (imo) would suck.

 

[vahadar]

From my understanding, the MSR was always going to be limited to Medium size jump points and up... for a Data Runner, the smaller jump points will be the territory of the lovely Herald (and the Terrapin, depending on what its exact role is).

Nice map btw, this is the one I've been looking at for ages for the same reason. Less detail but a little more legible.

Another thing to consider long term is what size Jump Points it can navigate. I think they've said the Freelancer series is the biggest thing that'll fit through Small jumps. That's a massive bonus if you look at the current map. Some places you can reach a whole new sector of the Verse in under 3-5 Small jumps. A Medium route would take an extra few jumps. And forget Large, some routes would be hours of travel.

Do you have both the original links for those maps, so i can see when they are updated?

 

[Firebrand]

Do you have both the original links for those maps, so i can see when they are updated?

Afraid not, sorry... I got it off someone posting it on Twitter.

 

[Grimbli]

Do you have both the original links for those maps, so i can see when they are updated?

Afraid not, sorry... I got it off someone posting it on Twitter.

Sorry, unlike @Firebrand I don't even remember where I heard it. There are so many sources and such a massive amount of info regarding this game I can't keep straight where I heard something. Sometimes it's from an old Reverse the Verse or obscure video where some devs were just hanging out and talking.

 

[Patrick Spaceman]

So then you are both a thief and a smuggler. :) So you must have some really cool stuff to recover.

The Ark of The Covenant..

 

[Richard Bong]

Having now flown it, unless you have a real hard on for data running I would go with the Max or the Taurus.

It is lighter on the stick, but in a freighter that isn't really all that important.

The MSR focuses on the wrong things.

 

[atpbx]

Its an overall better ship than both the freelancer and the cutlass.

Its got 61k hit points, only slightly behind the Carrack, its fast as fuck and has more than enough firepower to deal with everything it cannot run away from.

Full living facilities, long range, civilian components so it wont be hugely expensive to run, maximim of 3 crew, which is the same as Cutlas and Freelancer, and will have more than enough CPU power to automate its turrets.

 

[Firebrand]

Having now flown it, unless you have a real hard on for data running I would go with the Max or the Taurus.

It is lighter on the stick, but in a freighter that isn't really all that important.

The MSR focuses on the wrong things.

This is true... to an extent. Personally I've always wanted to focus on data running since the release of the Herald and now I have both, I will also be keenly interested in anything else that is dedicated to this profession.

 

[Richard Bong]

This is true... to an extent. Personally I've always wanted to focus on data running since the release of the Herald and now I have both, I will also be keenly interested in anything else that is dedicated to this profession.

My thought, though I wasn't clear, is it is focusing on trying to maneuver like a fighter and look cool, both inside and out, while making it difficult to exit the ship in a hurry, and maintain the components under fire.

In a freighter, and even a data runner, the later seems to be more important. :)

Especially since most people, that aren't flying a fighter, don't spend more than about 36KM (Usually under 25km) at a time in normal space.

 

[Firebrand]

My thought, though I wasn't clear, is it is focusing on trying to maneuver like a fighter and look cool, both inside and out, while making it difficult to exit the ship in a hurry, and maintain the components under fire.

In a freighter, and even a data runner, the later seems to be more important. :)

Especially since most people, that aren't flying a fighter, don't spend more than about 36KM (Usually under 25km) at a time in normal space.

It doesn't fly like a fighter at all... while it is manoeuvrable for its size, fighters will literally run circles around it. The agility of the MSR lends its self to being able to get off the ground and into flight quickly enough to actually make it a 'runner'.

And concerns about making it difficult to enter and exit the ship in a hurry and maintain the components... it's not a solo flyer's ship. Sure it can be operated by a single person but to get the most out of it, the pilot sits in the cockpit and then another if not two crew members manage everything else.

It's actually very well balanced with enough strengths to make it good and enough weaknesses to not make it replace other ships in their roles. All ships in game need weaknesses so they're not 'meta' but a little bit of overlap allows us to use them in slightly different ways depending on preferences.
All in all, it's win/win/win

 

[AntiSqueaker]

I feel that it's a bit too agile- right now it accelerates and decelerates in every direction (laterally + horizontally) better than the smaller Freelancer and Cutlass.

I think it should have good mainline acceleration and keep the top speed, but based on the bar napkin math I did, the MSRs mav thrusters would have to be almost the size of the Reliant's main engine to make it that nimble at such high speeds.

Maybe that's why it runs out of fuel so easily

Toning the maneuverability down a notch or two, especially at higher speeds, won't have any negative impact on the Runner aspect and wouldn't make it stick out like a sore thumb compared to other ships in her size range.

 

[Richard Bong]

It doesn't fly like a fighter at all... while it is manoeuvrable for its size, fighters will literally run circles around it. The agility of the MSR lends its self to being able to get off the ground and into flight quickly enough to actually make it a 'runner'.

And concerns about making it difficult to enter and exit the ship in a hurry and maintain the components... it's not a solo flyer's ship. Sure it can be operated by a single person but to get the most out of it, the pilot sits in the cockpit and then another if not two crew members manage everything else.

It's actually very well balanced with enough strengths to make it good and enough weaknesses to not make it replace other ships in their roles. All ships in game need weaknesses so they're not 'meta' but a little bit of overlap allows us to use them in slightly different ways depending on preferences.
All in all, it's win/win/win

The specs look close to a fighter to me.

 

[Firebrand]

The specs look close to a fighter to me.

I've flown it, hands-on experience... it is maneuverable for its size yes, but the MSR is no fighter. And with only 2x S3 forward weapons, it is only effective against low level NPCs. I have also fought against the MSR in a 235a and a Warden, the MSR has such a large footprint that its really easy to hit as well and from any angle too.
Going back to the whole 'focused on the wrong areas issue', the flight mode isn't really something they spent/wasted time focusing on anyway and the flight model for the MSR can be changed and tweaked at pretty much any time. What the devs did focus on was the ship model, layout and design details. The ship was concepted as a fast Data Runner/Cargo ship and that's exactly what they've produced. The design may have changed slightly but the focus on its specialisation has remained true.
But trust me, while the MSR handles surprisingly well, it is no fighter and when two or three properly piloted fighters descend on an MSR (as you would expect in an actually 'pirate' attack), the MSR is going to have to turn and run... which it can do pretty well, as its name sake suggests.

 

[Shadow Reaper]

What's missing are the lateral acceleration stats, and these are what determine evasion most--strafe, slip through a turn, etc. It appears less than a dogfighter. Not sure how it compares to the Vanguard, Cutty and Lancer, but it ought to have lower lat acc. than any of these. It's really a large ship, and ought to handle closer to a Connie.

Anyone outfit with Eclipse and Nightfall yet? Looks like it has superb stealth stats, equaled only by the Sentinel. No need to fill the turrets when you can sneak past enemies and run away if they spot you.

I do not understand the immense fuel storage, especially in light of observations of how she burns fuel and how short range in normal drive.

 

[Richard Bong]

What's missing are the lateral acceleration stats, and these are what determine evasion most--strafe, slip through a turn, etc. It appears less than a dogfighter. Not sure how it compares to the Vanguard, Cutty and Lancer, but it ought to have lower lat acc. than any of these. It's really a large ship, and ought to handle closer to a Connie.

Anyone outfit with Eclipse and Nightfall yet? Looks like it has superb stealth stats, equaled only by the Sentinel. No need to fill the turrets when you can sneak past enemies and run away if they spot you.

I do not understand the immense fuel storage, especially in light of observations of how she burns fuel and how short range in normal drive.

Normal Space drive, generally, gets used for distances of less than 40 Km, unless you are dogfighting. The distance that matters for hauling, freight or data, is Quantum fuel.

You can't have economy and speed. :)

 

[Richard Bong]

I've flown it, hands-on experience... it is maneuverable for its size yes, but the MSR is no fighter. And with only 2x S3 forward weapons, it is only effective against low level NPCs. I have also fought against the MSR in a 235a and a Warden, the MSR has such a large footprint that its really easy to hit as well and from any angle too.
Going back to the whole 'focused on the wrong areas issue', the flight mode isn't really something they spent/wasted time focusing on anyway and the flight model for the MSR can be changed and tweaked at pretty much any time. What the devs did focus on was the ship model, layout and design details. The ship was concepted as a fast Data Runner/Cargo ship and that's exactly what they've produced. The design may have changed slightly but the focus on its specialisation has remained true.
But trust me, while the MSR handles surprisingly well, it is no fighter and when two or three properly piloted fighters descend on an MSR (as you would expect in an actually 'pirate' attack), the MSR is going to have to turn and run... which it can do pretty well, as its name sake suggests.

I have flown it as well.

I never said it was a fighter, I said it maneuvers like one.