Permanent fleet planning question

[Brictoria]

I'm currently putting together a revised fleet plan and realized that with Pyro on the way (followed by other systems) as well as the (likely) eventual removal of the ability to "claim" a ship that is not destroyed (requiring ships to be "flown"\transported - either by owner or "NPC to different locations), it may be advantageous to have multiples of some ships that I would only need one of in Stanton (primarily industry and cargo ships).

For those putting together permanent fleets (paid for ships which survive wipes), have you designed\are you designing your fleet around the idea of:

• Only operating each ship in a single system
• Flying ships between systems when they are required there
• Buying multples of some\all ships to ensure there is one in each system you plan to operate it in
• Buying additional copies of owned ships in-game as you branch into new systems
• Haven't considered this

Similarly, are you planning to have a single character, or will you have alt accounts or "NPC"'s (additional game packages on the same account) distributed across various systems that you can choose to play, rather than flying a main character between systems when you want to play somewhere?

 

[Montoya]

I would not bother buying multiples of the same ship.

The game is meant to be played starting with a starter ship and working your way higher.

Don't skip out on this progression, its supposed to be part of the game!

 

[Ayeteeone]

@Brictoria Alternative perspective - Having multiple ships only makes any kind of sense to me at the small ship level, and purely based on the limitations of their QT range. As it sits, there are few small ships that can make the distances, even around Pyro. There are changes to that system coming, but the details are not in player hands as yet.

So if you fly solo out of a set of mission hubs, it could be worthwhile to have a (Titan/Terrapin/Prospector/Vulture/whatever's appropriate) set up at each hub. Travel between them in something with a medium QT drive that has no trouble making the trip.

As you point out, it IS intended that once a ship is spawned, it will have to be flown or ferried to get it somewhere else. Logistical options aside, this would seem to support CR's 'choices have consequences' philosophy. So most of us are probably going to be spending our game time in only a few ships.

 

[BUTUZ]

Pyro is just going to be one of......ahem.....cough...MANY promised systems. Buyng multiple ships per system(s) is not the answer (unless you literally don't like money and want to throw it away).

 

[Montoya]

I also think part of the fun of arriving in some new system with just your exploration ship is that you will need to work to make money to buy your next combat or salvage ship while in that system.

 

[Shadow Reaper]

It's worth noting that if you plan is for the permanent part of the game, there will no longer be wipes. The question no longer reverts back to what you buy with real cash, but what your fleet should look like.

When Beta hits dying will become something to avoid and avoiding it will be more important than taking measures what to do if one dies.

I think most people buy "fleets" because they instinctively feel they're winning by buying stuff. I can't speak to that save to say one ought examine their impulses before acting on them.

I think most of all we don't yet know enough for early fleet planning. The one thing many players neglect is the ability to link up NPC escorts. We still do not know if you can put NPC pilots in your own ships and squad them together. If I can connect any set number of ships and command them all at once, actual "fleet" composition becomes an art form. Go hunt Vanduul! Yeah! Except, we don't even know how far apart targets are from staging areas so again, we don't know what ships to select.

 

[Ayeteeone]

I also think part of the fun of arriving in some new system with just your exploration ship is that you will need to work to make money to buy your next combat or salvage ship while in that system.

Exactly, and you point at the one big loop that hasn't been developed yet - 'finding stuff'. Quite a lot of content has been developed and laid in front of us; a little bit has been unmarked for the more motivated souls. The intended play is much more what you say here, that we would show up somewhere new to us and have to learn our way around.

Hopefully getting paid while doing it.

 

[Sky Captain]

For ship purchases with cash, I favor building an LTI fleet that fosters fleet 'diversity' for the long-game over other factors. I emphasize more ship classes rather than duplicates.

For ship duplication/replication to place in multiple systems later, I assume that I'll be able to earn that in game through in-game progression where I really need to.

 

[Randson]

So my look on it is. If you're going to own a very very large fleet, there are specific times where owning multiple fighters might be a ok move to make. I think if having multiple ships would unlock the full capability of a larger ship you already own, and you already have the people capable of handling both, AND you have a diverse fleet already, then having multiples may be a good way to go if you're still looking to do more. Having fighters on a Kraken, for instance, drastically improves its function. And while you could hodge-podge your flight decks with your friend's ships that they might own, the ship you can carry might be on the other side of the system. Making it both inconvenient and inefficient. Similar or same airframes also means that all repair parts would be universally compatible. This both increases your time abroad, but decreases its footprint on your cargo hold. This is actually the purpose and primary strength or the original Hornet.

I'm going to be real with you , though. That's a very niche scenario. For most people, and especially for large ships, unless you have 80 friends you expect to primarily and regularly play directly with you, I'd stay away from having multiple. And I also think, for personal fleets, scattering for coverage is a low-yielding endeavor. The value of having options from the start of an operation rather than being restricted to a particular ship is immaculate. Org fleets are different as the org itself doesn't have to crutch on these vehicles for their personal gameplay. Orgs will likely have hotspots where they can allocate their assets to support places where be necessary. But this suggests there are org mates there to support. Elsewise, a decentralized org fleet, too, makes no sense.

Mind you, this all suggests that you are willing to skip the gameplay that is ship progression. And having the right ship for the right scenario doesn't necessarily make you a better pilot, and it surely doesn't mean your progression is done, as you will still have to modify.

Just My two-cents, enjoy your fleet as you like!

 

[Brictoria]

My thoughts on this subject were based on looking towards release (however many years\decades away that may be). By that time there will likely be quite a few changes (for "simulation" reasons), such as:

• Many Ships ("alien" ones, in particular) will likely have "rep" required to be able to purchase in-game.
• Ships likely won't all be available in every system, with some possibly requiring considerable travel to reach a store selling them (particularly as you approach the "frontier") and they then need transporting back to where you want them.
• Ship prices (UEC and $ if still available on website) will likely increase (interesting discussions related to pricing in https://testsquadron.com/threads/ship-prices-in-uec.14289/ and https://testsquadron.com/threads/estimated-ship-prices-in-uec-based-on-rsi-estimates-nov-2016.9415/).
• Mission rewards, etc. may be dialed back.
• insurance claim times may vary based on distance from "manufacturer" of ship, size of ship, and number of other players (or NPCs?) claiming them at that time.

At the same time the ability to "claim" ships stowed at another location will almost certainly be removed with the existing ship needing to be flown or transported from their location to where they are needed. Similarly, the incoming change to mineables (spliting their availability by planet/moon, possibly by system in the future) will possibly have an impact on gathering resources to craft or build settlements.

If you ignore the combat ships, and to a degree, cargo ships (where there are many options, so for example you can have multiple "light figthers" without it being duplicates of the same ship), there are a number of game loops (mining, salvage, refining, medical, for example) where to have the option to play that loop in a different system will require getting ship(s) from one system to another, or purchasing ships (UEC or $) for use there. In some cases, loading a liberator with the needed ships (Prospector and Expanse, for example) and flying to a new system may be feasible, but other systems may be too "hazardous" to risk so many ships, so having a prospector[1] there and a smaller transport ship to move the resources to a safer location might be a better option. That, however, would require flying\transporting 2 ships there (time consuming\incurring cost), or having a prospector[1] permanently based there and flying a small transport to it from outside the system, collecting resources, and loading back them into the transport to take "home".

Similarly, if we can locate personal NPC's (from additional game packages\possible pledge item) at different locations and select to play that character when signing in, having ships ready for them to use for events there (Xenothreat, "jumptown", etc.) which "duplicate" those another character also has may be more efficient (or safer, depending on the systems needed to be flown through) than flying them across systems to participate in the event.

I'm not intending to buy duplicate ships or lock in CCU chains (for either "unique" or duplicate ships) until the game is much closer to release, but the utility of duplicates (whether permanent - with or without LTI - or UEC based) dispersed across the 'verse was a potential factor I was keeping in mind with the planning, and I was curious as to whether anyone else was as well... Having the ships in advance may lessen some "progression" aspects, but it would also help relieve some of the "grind" required as well, allowing more time for what you may want to do in the game, rather than spending that time on tasks you may not enjoy as much in order to get the funds\rep\etc..

[1] or Vulture\Expanse\etc.

 

[RoosterRage]

It's worth noting that if you plan is for the permanent part of the game, there will no longer be wipes. The question no longer reverts back to what you buy with real cash, but what your fleet should look like.

When Beta hits dying will become something to avoid and avoiding it will be more important than taking measures what to do if one dies.

I think most people buy "fleets" because they instinctively feel they're winning by buying stuff. I can't speak to that save to say one ought examine their impulses before acting on them.

I think most of all we don't yet know enough for early fleet planning. The one thing many players neglect is the ability to link up NPC escorts. We still do not know if you can put NPC pilots in your own ships and squad them together. If I can connect any set number of ships and command them all at once, actual "fleet" composition becomes an art form. Go hunt Vanduul! Yeah! Except, we don't even know how far apart targets are from staging areas so again, we don't know what ships to select.

CR answered this years ago in 10FTC and said no you will not be able to put npcs in your ships with the exception of maybe 1 but they would see.

 

[Sky Captain]

CR answered years ago in 10FTC and said no you will not be able to put npcs in your ships with the exception of maybe 1 but they would see.

CIG's Multi-Package Clarification seems to imply otherwise, no?: https://robertsspaceindustries.com/comm-link/transmission/13288-multiple-package-clarification

"Many of Star Citizen’s ships, such as the Freelancer or Constellation, feature positions for multiple crewmen. Players will always be able to hire NPC crewmen in the game, contracting computer-controlled crews to help man turrets, run consoles and fly escort. "

 

[Amun Khonsu]

For ship purchases with cash, I favor building an LTI fleet that fosters fleet 'diversity' for the long-game over other factors. I emphasize more ship classes rather than duplicates.

For ship duplication/replication to place in multiple systems later, I assume that I'll be able to earn that in game through in-game progression where I really need to.

I agree with this, 100%. I favour fleet diversity rather than redundancy in this phase.

I wouldn't dump loads of money into duplicate ships unless it is UEC earned in game, even after a "release date." So, I'm planning a diverse fleet of ships as a backbone of what I may want to do in the future both on my own and with friends here.

 

[Richard Bong]

I'm currently putting together a revised fleet plan and realized that with Pyro on the way (followed by other systems) as well as the (likely) eventual removal of the ability to "claim" a ship that is not destroyed (requiring ships to be "flown"\transported - either by owner or "NPC to different locations), it may be advantageous to have multiples of some ships that I would only need one of in Stanton (primarily industry and cargo ships).

For those putting together permanent fleets (paid for ships which survive wipes), have you designed\are you designing your fleet around the idea of:

• Only operating each ship in a single system
• Flying ships between systems when they are required there
• Buying multples of some\all ships to ensure there is one in each system you plan to operate it in
• Buying additional copies of owned ships in-game as you branch into new systems
• Haven't considered this

Similarly, are you planning to have a single character, or will you have alt accounts or "NPC"'s (additional game packages on the same account) distributed across various systems that you can choose to play, rather than flying a main character between systems when you want to play somewhere?

First ship: Starter ship, probably Avenger Titan is still the correct choice though the 300 series is a good choice as well.
If you believe they have earned your money and can afford to spend more money then.
Second Ship: The starter ship in your chosen profession.
Learn from my mistakes. :) You don't need any more than that.

If you just want to spend money, buy ships you enjoy flying and never chase meta with real dollars.

I wouldn't bother with staging ships all over the verse. If you are concerned with range then the second tier of your chosen profession should be able to get you where you need to go.

Enough of us exist, so if you are someplace without a ship, borrow one, or ask and someone can deliver one to you, and perhaps give you a ride where you want to go.

 

[Bambooza]

It's worth noting that if you plan is for the permanent part of the game, there will no longer be wipes. The question no longer reverts back to what you buy with real cash, but what your fleet should look like.

When Beta hits dying will become something to avoid and avoiding it will be more important than taking measures what to do if one dies.

I think most people buy "fleets" because they instinctively feel they're winning by buying stuff. I can't speak to that save to say one ought examine their impulses before acting on them.

I think most of all we don't yet know enough for early fleet planning. The one thing many players neglect is the ability to link up NPC escorts. We still do not know if you can put NPC pilots in your own ships and squad them together. If I can connect any set number of ships and command them all at once, actual "fleet" composition becomes an art form. Go hunt Vanduul! Yeah! Except, we don't even know how far apart targets are from staging areas so again, we don't know what ships to select.

I'll let you know that my impulse buying has been purely based on the attractiveness of the ship then like all good well adjusted individuals I then attempt to find justifications that support the forgone conclusion.

Like I got a galaxy not because I need a large multi-player combat ship as I also have a Polaris but because it's sexy.

On a more serious note I strongly feel that most players will have one or two ships they use often and the others will simply rot in the hangers. CIG while it's temporary reverted back has shown and stated that all purchased ships will be physlicalized and none will exist in the magic state to be summoned at any terminal.

So I agree with others that there is no need for duplicates ships are not going to be disposable. Each one with the high level of customization, patches from damage and interior inventory will become an avatar in its own way. Coupled with long travel times and it's easy to see how one ship will be the standard.

If nothing else the amount of ships in this organization means loaning ships will be common.

 

[Richard Bong]

@Brictoria Alternative perspective - Having multiple ships only makes any kind of sense to me at the small ship level, and purely based on the limitations of their QT range. As it sits, there are few small ships that can make the distances, even around Pyro. There are changes to that system coming, but the details are not in player hands as yet.

So if you fly solo out of a set of mission hubs, it could be worthwhile to have a (Titan/Terrapin/Prospector/Vulture/whatever's appropriate) set up at each hub. Travel between them in something with a medium QT drive that has no trouble making the trip.

As you point out, it IS intended that once a ship is spawned, it will have to be flown or ferried to get it somewhere else. Logistical options aside, this would seem to support CR's 'choices have consequences' philosophy. So most of us are probably going to be spending our game time in only a few ships.

Purchase, in game, of an Aurora, Mustang, Titan or 300 series should be trivial.

 

[Richard Bong]

One additional thought.
I have seen nothing to suggest you get to place your ships all over the place at start. I have seen hints that all your stuff starts where you start. You get one personal hangar at start, regardless of how many you have that are listed with your purchased ships. So you'll have to move ships to where you want them anyway.

So since you have to get there yourself, you might as well fly the ship you want there in the first place. Given this, purchasing multiple ships of the same type makes even less sense to me.

 

[Richard Bong]

I also think part of the fun of arriving in some new system with just your exploration ship is that you will need to work to make money to buy your next combat or salvage ship while in that system.

Or instead of flying your explorration ship to a new system, fly your transporter ship to the new system with the ships you want to use there.

For example, load up a Liberator with a 315P or Terrapin, a Vulture and an Arrow and fly to the new system. Now you can explore, do combat do salvage, and haul cargo in the new system.

 

[Dirtbag_Leader]

Naw, use ED as an example model. I'm convinced there WILL absolutely be a way to pay/wait to have one of your ships transferred around for you, and you'll want to do that with YOUR ship rather than buy another one after you've sunk all the time/resources into upgrading/outfitting/customizing it. Personally it's what draws me strongly to ships with hangars (Galaxy/Carrack/BMM/Polaris/etc.) so that you can jump long distances with your BIG ship, park it somewhere in-system, and then have a little ship along for running around/doing stuff in said system.

 

[Brictoria]

Naw, use ED as an example model. I'm convinced there WILL absolutely be a way to pay/wait to have one of your ships transferred around for you, and you'll want to do that with YOUR ship rather than buy another one after you've sunk all the time/resources into upgrading/outfitting/customizing it. Personally it's what draws me strongly to ships with hangars (Galaxy/Carrack/BMM/Polaris/etc.) so that you can jump long distances with your BIG ship, park it somewhere in-system, and then have a little ship along for running around/doing stuff in said system.

I like the idea of the Liberator as a relatively small mobile "home" which can be fitted for things like salvage (Vulture, Expanse), mining (Prospector, Expanse, ROC), or some other role.

That said, being able to fly a single fast small ship across multiple systems (or high "risk" ones) to participate in activities somewhere, knowing the ships I need will be waiting, rather than having higher fuel costs for multiple ships to get there, a delay (and cost) while other ships that might be wanted are "transported" there or slower trip there through a longer set of larger jump points if using a "carrier", does have some appeal.