Edit:
When it comes to buying such old cars, knowing the history and owner of the car is half the battle. So, if you know of someone, whom you know took very good care of their car and wants to sell it, and it fits the specifications, please send me a PM! Thank you!
Hi fellow Testies, as the title suggests, I need your input!
I know this is not some car enthusiast site, but I'm pretty sure there are enough ppl around here who are interested in cars, and have more experience with SUVs then I have, so I thought I'd try my luck! Also, feel free to just talk cars in general/derail the thread, I'm always interested!
Due to pressure from parents, we are looking into buying a used SUV, primarily for safety reasons (and we might need more space as well not too far in the future). Though we never had any kind of accident in 12 years, our current car is pretty much unsafe for 21st century traffic.
With most of the money coming from said parents, I was given some strict requirements. Personally I would never have thought of buying an SUV but normal "car" shaped cars usually don't fit these requirements so that's where I ended up.
Budget is maxed around 10.000 Euros / 11.000 USD (preferably less depending on age/condition of vehicle) for the vehicle and nothing else.
There is a separate budget for the general maintenance you gotta do on a freshly bought used car, taxes, registration and so on.
My local market is very limited and full of diesel crap, so I'll probably have to import the car. I know the right ppl to import a car from Germany, Austria, and the USA for minimal fees, but suggestions are welcome from any region.
I have made an excel sheet with some basic stats, and so far, these are the contenders I came up with:
TL.DR.:
Looking for a family SUV that handles, or is luxurious enough, preferrably both, around 10K EUR/USD. Around 10 +-4 year old. Has to be big/heavy, preferably reliable as well. Not an offroader, for short range/city use. I'm located in the EU, but both US and EU models are options!
Also any suggestions for a "car" shaped car that fits the requirements is more then welcome!
shortlist so far:
2011 Grand Cherokee V6
2011 Santa Fe V6
2005 BMW X5 3.0i
2006 X3 2.0i
2007 VW Touareg ?
2010 Kia Sorrento V6
Didn't make the cut (all too light or bad ratings):
Honda CR-V
Subaru Outback
Subaru Forester
Suzuki Grand Vitara
Mitsubishi Outlander
Hyundai Tucson
Toyota Rav4
When it comes to buying such old cars, knowing the history and owner of the car is half the battle. So, if you know of someone, whom you know took very good care of their car and wants to sell it, and it fits the specifications, please send me a PM! Thank you!
Hi fellow Testies, as the title suggests, I need your input!
I know this is not some car enthusiast site, but I'm pretty sure there are enough ppl around here who are interested in cars, and have more experience with SUVs then I have, so I thought I'd try my luck! Also, feel free to just talk cars in general/derail the thread, I'm always interested!
Due to pressure from parents, we are looking into buying a used SUV, primarily for safety reasons (and we might need more space as well not too far in the future). Though we never had any kind of accident in 12 years, our current car is pretty much unsafe for 21st century traffic.
For reference, both me and my wife drives the car our family owned for 24 years now.
And it is.... drum roll please... an 1994 Opel Astra F 1.6 Si GL in Miami Ocean Blue! (fyi, that's the more-blue-then-green colored one, called teal)
My father bought it new, and it rolled off the production line a few hundred Km away from here. It's a small hatchback with only a 100PS, but boy it is fun to whiz around the city. It has short gears from 1st through 3rd, and accelerates to the city speed limit way better then it's supposed to, but ofc there is a price to pay. Above 110-120kph (65mph), in 4th and 5th it's fucking useless. It cuold do 200kph on the German autobahn, with windows up, antenna retracted, on the less roll-resistant kind of concrete roads, with better quality fuel, and no headwind... once in a lifetime. And it needs the F&F6 runways length to do it lol... But it's a great little ride for commuting, popping down to the shops, or when you're in a hurry and just need to beat a brand new diesel peugeot at the lights.
Adapting to modern cars became an issue about 12 years ago, around the time when I started daily driving it. Modern cars would stop way more abruptly with their overly sensitive brakes, and I almost rear ended ppl multiple times while in heavy traffic. With the small and narrow factory tires and soft suspension, it just couldn't stop as fast. That's when I decided to modify it. I upgraded the suspension with a proper eibach/koni set, changed to higher quality Brembo vented discs and pads, and installed decently wide wheels with properly grippy Bridgestone tires, so it corners pretty damn well and stops when it has to. Of course in my teens, I had to install projector (not HID) headlights with angel-eyes instead of the old fogged ones, and the mandatory pod filter! It probably lost some horsepower, but for some reason it sounds so amazing with it that even my friend is jealous of it, and he owned multiple WRX Sti-s and dailies a 555, along with an E34 V8! And it does it with a stock exhaust!
With even the "smaller" cars getting heavier every year , a new base model 3 series is around 1700 Kg these days, no matter how good drivers we might be, it just isn't safe. It weighs around 1100 kg loaded, and with Force=Mass x Accel., it's a huge fucking difference. When a mom texting in her G-Wagen runs the red light and hits it, there will be no car left to speak of. This also explains why my parents are freaking out, and wanting a less unsafe car for us.
With the car hitting it's 25th year soon, I'm afraid that way too expensive problems will start cropping up all over it. Just to give you a hint, even an oil change, if I do it myself, costs 10%-15% of it's total value now. Imagine how much it will cost to change some more significant part... From a sensible perspective, it is cheap but just not worth it anymore. Ofc, I really don't care about being sensible, I'm a car guy ffs...
It has zero safety, and it has zero equipment. No Airbags, no AC, no electric windows, and no power steering. Though I prefer actually feeling the road and grip through the suspension and steering wheel, the wife doesn't agree with me on this when she has to manhandle the wheel while trying to park. Those wide bridgestones get damn sticky in the summer lol...
Anyways, there is no point in selling the car as no one would pay it's real value. It's in way too good shape with way less mileage then believable for it's age, so I'll just turn it into a hobby/trackday car probably. Gutting it for some Weight Reduction Bro!, it will be proper fun on the small tracks we have around here.
And it is.... drum roll please... an 1994 Opel Astra F 1.6 Si GL in Miami Ocean Blue! (fyi, that's the more-blue-then-green colored one, called teal)
My father bought it new, and it rolled off the production line a few hundred Km away from here. It's a small hatchback with only a 100PS, but boy it is fun to whiz around the city. It has short gears from 1st through 3rd, and accelerates to the city speed limit way better then it's supposed to, but ofc there is a price to pay. Above 110-120kph (65mph), in 4th and 5th it's fucking useless. It cuold do 200kph on the German autobahn, with windows up, antenna retracted, on the less roll-resistant kind of concrete roads, with better quality fuel, and no headwind... once in a lifetime. And it needs the F&F6 runways length to do it lol... But it's a great little ride for commuting, popping down to the shops, or when you're in a hurry and just need to beat a brand new diesel peugeot at the lights.
Adapting to modern cars became an issue about 12 years ago, around the time when I started daily driving it. Modern cars would stop way more abruptly with their overly sensitive brakes, and I almost rear ended ppl multiple times while in heavy traffic. With the small and narrow factory tires and soft suspension, it just couldn't stop as fast. That's when I decided to modify it. I upgraded the suspension with a proper eibach/koni set, changed to higher quality Brembo vented discs and pads, and installed decently wide wheels with properly grippy Bridgestone tires, so it corners pretty damn well and stops when it has to. Of course in my teens, I had to install projector (not HID) headlights with angel-eyes instead of the old fogged ones, and the mandatory pod filter! It probably lost some horsepower, but for some reason it sounds so amazing with it that even my friend is jealous of it, and he owned multiple WRX Sti-s and dailies a 555, along with an E34 V8! And it does it with a stock exhaust!
With even the "smaller" cars getting heavier every year , a new base model 3 series is around 1700 Kg these days, no matter how good drivers we might be, it just isn't safe. It weighs around 1100 kg loaded, and with Force=Mass x Accel., it's a huge fucking difference. When a mom texting in her G-Wagen runs the red light and hits it, there will be no car left to speak of. This also explains why my parents are freaking out, and wanting a less unsafe car for us.
With the car hitting it's 25th year soon, I'm afraid that way too expensive problems will start cropping up all over it. Just to give you a hint, even an oil change, if I do it myself, costs 10%-15% of it's total value now. Imagine how much it will cost to change some more significant part... From a sensible perspective, it is cheap but just not worth it anymore. Ofc, I really don't care about being sensible, I'm a car guy ffs...
It has zero safety, and it has zero equipment. No Airbags, no AC, no electric windows, and no power steering. Though I prefer actually feeling the road and grip through the suspension and steering wheel, the wife doesn't agree with me on this when she has to manhandle the wheel while trying to park. Those wide bridgestones get damn sticky in the summer lol...
Anyways, there is no point in selling the car as no one would pay it's real value. It's in way too good shape with way less mileage then believable for it's age, so I'll just turn it into a hobby/trackday car probably. Gutting it for some Weight Reduction Bro!, it will be proper fun on the small tracks we have around here.
With most of the money coming from said parents, I was given some strict requirements. Personally I would never have thought of buying an SUV but normal "car" shaped cars usually don't fit these requirements so that's where I ended up.
Budget is maxed around 10.000 Euros / 11.000 USD (preferably less depending on age/condition of vehicle) for the vehicle and nothing else.
There is a separate budget for the general maintenance you gotta do on a freshly bought used car, taxes, registration and so on.
My local market is very limited and full of diesel crap, so I'll probably have to import the car. I know the right ppl to import a car from Germany, Austria, and the USA for minimal fees, but suggestions are welcome from any region.
Requirements are:
- maximum about 10 years old, except if 1-3 years older version has some huge advantage like much better engine
- it has to be rather Heavy: over 1800 kg / 4000 lbs curb weight
- has to be a petrol/gas car, diesels should be avoided unless no other options or famously good in that particular year/model
- good all-round safety rating, like 4-5 stars on NCAP, or G-s from IIHS if US car (pedestrian ratings don't count ofc.)
- Electronic Nannies (ABS, ESP, DSP...). I hate these, but I guess they come with the safety rating anyways
- the more airbags the better (unless they're Takata lol But that's kinda unavoidable as well)
- maximum about 10 years old, except if 1-3 years older version has some huge advantage like much better engine
- it has to be rather Heavy: over 1800 kg / 4000 lbs curb weight
- has to be a petrol/gas car, diesels should be avoided unless no other options or famously good in that particular year/model
- good all-round safety rating, like 4-5 stars on NCAP, or G-s from IIHS if US car (pedestrian ratings don't count ofc.)
- Electronic Nannies (ABS, ESP, DSP...). I hate these, but I guess they come with the safety rating anyways
- the more airbags the better (unless they're Takata lol But that's kinda unavoidable as well)
some things to consider:
- my mechanic who works cheap and fast and is totally awesome, a friend since childhood, is an amazing mechanic but works solely on BMWs. this is an important factor when it comes to cost of maintenance!
- 4WD/AWD is not strictly necessary but preferred (there are steep hills and real snow around here), yes I know it eats more fuel and costs more to maintain, but still preferred. Wife's gotta climb those curbs somehow, right?
- must be available in something other then Silver or Black, although Black is acceptable. I know it's a strange one, but we have our reasons...
- should have automagically dimming rear view mirror
- car will be daily driven , mostly by wife, 50-60km / 30-35miles in a city and suburb environment, and only taken on longer trips (500km) once or twice a year. Most trips will be outside of peak hours though.
- parking sensors are a must have! Parking camera preferred. We are not used to big cars, and park on narrow streets end-to-end. I wouldn't want to crush my neighbors Fiesta cos it's so small I can't see it...
- rear hatch/tailgate should not open sideways! Split up-down is the best. Same reason, lack of space when parked end to end, which is almost always...
- my mechanic who works cheap and fast and is totally awesome, a friend since childhood, is an amazing mechanic but works solely on BMWs. this is an important factor when it comes to cost of maintenance!
- 4WD/AWD is not strictly necessary but preferred (there are steep hills and real snow around here), yes I know it eats more fuel and costs more to maintain, but still preferred. Wife's gotta climb those curbs somehow, right?
- must be available in something other then Silver or Black, although Black is acceptable. I know it's a strange one, but we have our reasons...
- should have automagically dimming rear view mirror
- car will be daily driven , mostly by wife, 50-60km / 30-35miles in a city and suburb environment, and only taken on longer trips (500km) once or twice a year. Most trips will be outside of peak hours though.
- parking sensors are a must have! Parking camera preferred. We are not used to big cars, and park on narrow streets end-to-end. I wouldn't want to crush my neighbors Fiesta cos it's so small I can't see it...
- rear hatch/tailgate should not open sideways! Split up-down is the best. Same reason, lack of space when parked end to end, which is almost always...
personal notes and stupid stuff I'd like:
- combined fuel consumption would be preferred to be around or better then 15L/100km or 15 mpg.
- HUGE fucking SUNROOF!!! With some decent quality interior by European standards. SUV's have horrible handling by proper car standards and are not fun to drive (no, even an X5 M doesn't handle that well), especially not in this price range, so if I have to, I'd rather trade that for luxury then for a dull gray plastic interior, even if half the extras don't necessarily work
- Alcantara is King! We hate leather seats but I know it's kinda unavoidable with higher equipment levels (huge sunroof is usually top of the range, which means leather...)
- Firm Suspension is GOOD! The better it handles, the happier we are. Wife gets seasick on boats, so floaty suspension should be avoided anyways. Except if it's soooo overly luxurious that we don't care anymore, but I don't think that fits in the price.
This is last on the list, while normally it would be top after handling
- MOOAR POWERRRR! (and torque). Okay, okay, not really.
No, my wife won't need to drive something that does 0-60 in 5 seconds, but it should move well enough when pushed. Not fast-fast, just okay-ish for it's size. The vehicles size! Not my wife's.
Not Hellcat/Trackhawk power, just mid-range. What I'm trying to say is, if there is a i6/V6 with decent enough power, we don't need the triple supercharged turbocharged V8... I'd like it very much, but we couldn't afford the petrol bill.
- combined fuel consumption would be preferred to be around or better then 15L/100km or 15 mpg.
- HUGE fucking SUNROOF!!! With some decent quality interior by European standards. SUV's have horrible handling by proper car standards and are not fun to drive (no, even an X5 M doesn't handle that well), especially not in this price range, so if I have to, I'd rather trade that for luxury then for a dull gray plastic interior, even if half the extras don't necessarily work
- Alcantara is King! We hate leather seats but I know it's kinda unavoidable with higher equipment levels (huge sunroof is usually top of the range, which means leather...)
- Firm Suspension is GOOD! The better it handles, the happier we are. Wife gets seasick on boats, so floaty suspension should be avoided anyways. Except if it's soooo overly luxurious that we don't care anymore, but I don't think that fits in the price.
This is last on the list, while normally it would be top after handling
- MOOAR POWERRRR! (and torque). Okay, okay, not really.
No, my wife won't need to drive something that does 0-60 in 5 seconds, but it should move well enough when pushed. Not fast-fast, just okay-ish for it's size. The vehicles size! Not my wife's.
Not Hellcat/Trackhawk power, just mid-range. What I'm trying to say is, if there is a i6/V6 with decent enough power, we don't need the triple supercharged turbocharged V8... I'd like it very much, but we couldn't afford the petrol bill.
Don't care about:
- Cupholders
- stereo
- navigation
- Cupholders
- stereo
- navigation
I have made an excel sheet with some basic stats, and so far, these are the contenders I came up with:
From USA:
2011-2013 Jeep Grand Cherokee 3.6 V6 - If I had to go by heart alone, I would choose this. It doesn't really fit the bill, But I fucking Love the looks! Take a white one, change the dumb chrome grill to something more inset and matt dark grey/black, add some nice black rims, with some understated addon skirts all around... Or, increase the high-brow look by going with the winebottle-green metallic with the light tan interior, and add a bit more chrome here and there. This has Options! I checked for some "optical tuning" options and none of the others have anything worth it. This on the other hand... I'm no aristocrat, I don't mind if ppl think I drive an "american peasant" jeep. Cos here, they do... But Go fuck them, I say! 'Muricaaaa!!
Also, wife said she kinda likes the looks, which is rare. She only said it cos she has no clue how huge that car is on these streets lol!
Problems: kinda shitty NCAP safety rating for the EU model (diesel), while fully G(reat) from IIHS, no option for child seat in the front, and I dunno anyone who could service it as it's engine-model combo is kinda non-existent here. We only got diesels and the V8 maybe, and they are rarer than a Ferrari. Seriously, I've seen 5 different Ferraris in the street down from my apartment in the last 3 weeks alone, but only 1 of these the whole year so far!
I've read bad things about it's ride and handling, although no one specified if it's "bad" cos it's too hard for their soft backside, or bad cos it's too boat-like. Someone commented it handles great, next person commented that the ride is crap... What's the deal?
Reliability ratings are all over the place. I've seen Avoid like the Plague, Worst reliability ever, and Best Mid-size SUV stamped on the same damn car. What's the truth??
2011 Hyundai Santa Fe 3.5 V6 - looks... umm, like a soap. I don't like it, but it's not that baaad I guess... Okay US ratings, okay interior, no idea about ride or handling or power... On paper by it's stats alone, it looks good. It even got better NCAP ratings than the Jeep, and all in all, seems like a good options. Somehow it just doesn't feel right though...
2011-2013 Jeep Grand Cherokee 3.6 V6 - If I had to go by heart alone, I would choose this. It doesn't really fit the bill, But I fucking Love the looks! Take a white one, change the dumb chrome grill to something more inset and matt dark grey/black, add some nice black rims, with some understated addon skirts all around... Or, increase the high-brow look by going with the winebottle-green metallic with the light tan interior, and add a bit more chrome here and there. This has Options! I checked for some "optical tuning" options and none of the others have anything worth it. This on the other hand... I'm no aristocrat, I don't mind if ppl think I drive an "american peasant" jeep. Cos here, they do... But Go fuck them, I say! 'Muricaaaa!!
Also, wife said she kinda likes the looks, which is rare. She only said it cos she has no clue how huge that car is on these streets lol!
Problems: kinda shitty NCAP safety rating for the EU model (diesel), while fully G(reat) from IIHS, no option for child seat in the front, and I dunno anyone who could service it as it's engine-model combo is kinda non-existent here. We only got diesels and the V8 maybe, and they are rarer than a Ferrari. Seriously, I've seen 5 different Ferraris in the street down from my apartment in the last 3 weeks alone, but only 1 of these the whole year so far!
I've read bad things about it's ride and handling, although no one specified if it's "bad" cos it's too hard for their soft backside, or bad cos it's too boat-like. Someone commented it handles great, next person commented that the ride is crap... What's the deal?
Reliability ratings are all over the place. I've seen Avoid like the Plague, Worst reliability ever, and Best Mid-size SUV stamped on the same damn car. What's the truth??
2011 Hyundai Santa Fe 3.5 V6 - looks... umm, like a soap. I don't like it, but it's not that baaad I guess... Okay US ratings, okay interior, no idea about ride or handling or power... On paper by it's stats alone, it looks good. It even got better NCAP ratings than the Jeep, and all in all, seems like a good options. Somehow it just doesn't feel right though...
2008-2010 Chevrolet Captiva - Haven't even checked what engine it comes with in the US, the EU models are all diesel crap, but I hate it soooo much! The looks are just... it doesn't have any! Reviews praised it for being affordable yet good, but the plastics on the top of the range model... omfg, the plastic keg of sourcream in my fridge has more style, engineering and quality in it then any part of this car! I just put it on this list cos it fits the requirements mostly, but my stomach started to turn as I'm writing this. I generally don't hate cars, but this one seems to be the exception... I guess I'm just afraid we will end up with one, with it being affordable and cheap to maintain, and the most sensible choice, and I really really don't want any part of that. I soo fucking had it up to here with "being sensible" and making the "logical" choice! ... Fuck this, if it comes to getting one of these or walking, I'm walking until I earn enough to get a car I can live with... I know it's a popular car, and in case you own one, I don't want to shit on it, or offend you! I believe you if you say it's a perfectly fine and practical and fun car, but I just don't want it.
From EU:
2005-2006 BMW X5 3.0i (or 30d if must) - large, luxurious enough, rides hard but handles well. Looks acceptable, with a bit of work... I drove one, felt okay-ish. Great safety ratings with all airbags installed, child seat supports and other stuff is okay. Kinda feels like the right choice, but maintenance costs, even with my cheap mechanic, are supposed to be high. Wife likes the looks, although thinks it's a bit large.
2006-2008 BMW X3 2.0i - I hate the looks, but on paper it's supposed to be one of the best choices. Good safety ratings, not too big, small enough engine for good economy, supposedly roomy inside? I dunno, I have one parked here and the more I look at it the less I like it. Wife likes it cos it's small though. It's a bit cheaper to maintain than X5.
2007-ish VW Touareg (non-diesel?) - Meh, dunno if there is a good engine choice, also don't really like the shape of it. Or VW in general, and not because of dieselgate. They just feel like perfectly adequate and nothing more. No fizz or extravagance. BOOORING! That's the word I was looking for... It's got good ratings though. But maintenance costs are still high, or so I heard. I've seen it was available in the USA as well, might be cheaper to import then buy here.
2010 Kia Sorrento 3.3 V6 - looks are acceptable but nothing great, okay ratings, okay equipment, okay price... But supposedly has way too floaty suspensions and no-feel steering. Size is alright, wife doesn't care for the looks though. I have no clue about maintenance costs on this one. Also available from the US, might be worth a look as petrol models are very rare in EU.
2005-2006 BMW X5 3.0i (or 30d if must) - large, luxurious enough, rides hard but handles well. Looks acceptable, with a bit of work... I drove one, felt okay-ish. Great safety ratings with all airbags installed, child seat supports and other stuff is okay. Kinda feels like the right choice, but maintenance costs, even with my cheap mechanic, are supposed to be high. Wife likes the looks, although thinks it's a bit large.
2006-2008 BMW X3 2.0i - I hate the looks, but on paper it's supposed to be one of the best choices. Good safety ratings, not too big, small enough engine for good economy, supposedly roomy inside? I dunno, I have one parked here and the more I look at it the less I like it. Wife likes it cos it's small though. It's a bit cheaper to maintain than X5.
2007-ish VW Touareg (non-diesel?) - Meh, dunno if there is a good engine choice, also don't really like the shape of it. Or VW in general, and not because of dieselgate. They just feel like perfectly adequate and nothing more. No fizz or extravagance. BOOORING! That's the word I was looking for... It's got good ratings though. But maintenance costs are still high, or so I heard. I've seen it was available in the USA as well, might be cheaper to import then buy here.
2010 Kia Sorrento 3.3 V6 - looks are acceptable but nothing great, okay ratings, okay equipment, okay price... But supposedly has way too floaty suspensions and no-feel steering. Size is alright, wife doesn't care for the looks though. I have no clue about maintenance costs on this one. Also available from the US, might be worth a look as petrol models are very rare in EU.
Honorable Mentions:
2003-2005 Range Rover (the real one) I love it's looks, okay interior, supposedly the most unreliable car ever. Kinda rare in price range. I don't like the Freelanders, those are also out of price range anyways. Only in diesel in EU, or V8 petrol. I'm looking for a mid-range 6 petrol, if it exists... Sport looks great, but I know it's not a real Range, only a freelander in disguise.
2009 Volvo XC 60 Mostly Out of price range in EU, although there are a few in USA. 3.2 petrol looks like the way to go, but in EU only diesels exist, and the odd turbo petrol ones that should be avoided. Also, I really don't want to be a Volvo driver. Remember how ppl talk about BMW drivers being assholes, always pushing you on the highway 1 inch away form you bumper, being agressive selfish jerks? Yeah, that honor went to Audi drivers after BMW, then those ppl switched and now exclusively drive Volvos . They are the WORST kind of ppl on the roads around here. And every single Volvo driver is like that. They are a strange dangerous mix though. They will stop for pedestrian crossings politely, altough in a slow unpredictible way, yet they drive you off the road, try to race you, and never ever let you in. They seem to be agressive, full of confidance, yet they can't stay in their lanes for more then 5 seconds, or keep up with the traffic when there is space to go faster. I, along with every other motorist I know, fucking hate volvo drivers. Yes, they are even worse then small-french-car drivers...
2009 Audi Q5 Very much out of price range in EU, but available for the right price from the USA. Those look to be in pretty rough condition though. It might end up as an option if it fits the requirements, haven't really checked yet. Not a fan of VW group cars, apart from Skodas and Porsches.
2003-2005 Range Rover (the real one) I love it's looks, okay interior, supposedly the most unreliable car ever. Kinda rare in price range. I don't like the Freelanders, those are also out of price range anyways. Only in diesel in EU, or V8 petrol. I'm looking for a mid-range 6 petrol, if it exists... Sport looks great, but I know it's not a real Range, only a freelander in disguise.
2009 Volvo XC 60 Mostly Out of price range in EU, although there are a few in USA. 3.2 petrol looks like the way to go, but in EU only diesels exist, and the odd turbo petrol ones that should be avoided. Also, I really don't want to be a Volvo driver. Remember how ppl talk about BMW drivers being assholes, always pushing you on the highway 1 inch away form you bumper, being agressive selfish jerks? Yeah, that honor went to Audi drivers after BMW, then those ppl switched and now exclusively drive Volvos . They are the WORST kind of ppl on the roads around here. And every single Volvo driver is like that. They are a strange dangerous mix though. They will stop for pedestrian crossings politely, altough in a slow unpredictible way, yet they drive you off the road, try to race you, and never ever let you in. They seem to be agressive, full of confidance, yet they can't stay in their lanes for more then 5 seconds, or keep up with the traffic when there is space to go faster. I, along with every other motorist I know, fucking hate volvo drivers. Yes, they are even worse then small-french-car drivers...
2009 Audi Q5 Very much out of price range in EU, but available for the right price from the USA. Those look to be in pretty rough condition though. It might end up as an option if it fits the requirements, haven't really checked yet. Not a fan of VW group cars, apart from Skodas and Porsches.
TL.DR.:
Looking for a family SUV that handles, or is luxurious enough, preferrably both, around 10K EUR/USD. Around 10 +-4 year old. Has to be big/heavy, preferably reliable as well. Not an offroader, for short range/city use. I'm located in the EU, but both US and EU models are options!
Also any suggestions for a "car" shaped car that fits the requirements is more then welcome!
shortlist so far:
2011 Grand Cherokee V6
2011 Santa Fe V6
2005 BMW X5 3.0i
2006 X3 2.0i
2007 VW Touareg ?
2010 Kia Sorrento V6
Didn't make the cut (all too light or bad ratings):
Honda CR-V
Subaru Outback
Subaru Forester
Suzuki Grand Vitara
Mitsubishi Outlander
Hyundai Tucson
Toyota Rav4
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