Planetary pressure on Gas Giants!

[NaffNaffBobFace]

Right at the end of the last Friday Dev Hour they discussed Crusader having planetary pressure which could crush your ship if you got too deep:

View: https://youtu.be/pnPBHdHWSM4?t=3436


I'm sure I've shared this before somewhere but can't remember if it was here or if it was on Spectrum or the old RSI forums... I was reminded of the following from the 2006/2007 BBC sci-fi show Hyperdrive:

View: https://youtu.be/9ywkwtg1OOY?t=207


If we can get our enemies into target blindness focussing only on shooting us we'll be able to lead them into the depths and the pressure will make them sky slurry!

 

[Lorddarthvik]

Right at the end of the last Friday Dev Hour they discussed Crusader having planetary pressure which could crush your ship if you got too deep:

View: https://youtu.be/pnPBHdHWSM4?t=3436


I'm sure I've shared this before somewhere but can't remember if it was here or if it was on Spectrum or the old RSI forums... I was reminded of the following from the 2006/2007 BBC sci-fi show Hyperdrive:

View: https://youtu.be/9ywkwtg1OOY?t=207


If we can get our enemies into target blindness focussing only on shooting us we'll be able to lead them into the depths and the pressure will make them sky slurry!

That IS Nick Frost! Wow, how come I never heard of this? This looks sooo jank I gotta watch all of it right now!

And yes diving into atmo is a viable tactic used in sci-fi many times (SW EU books, BSG, Space:A&B...). It will be cool if it's feasible in SC.
Question is, will heavier or supposedly tougher ships (like Terrapin, Carrack, military exploration vessels...) be able.to dive deeper, or the difference in crush depth will be negligible anyways so the less maneuverable ships will loose a dive to a more agile ship every time?
I haven't had time to watch the vid so maybe this was already answered.

 

[NaffNaffBobFace]

That IS Nick Frost! Wow, how come I never heard of this? This looks sooo jank I gotta watch all of it right now!

And yes diving into atmo is a viable tactic used in sci-fi many times (SW EU books, BSG, Space:A&B...). It will be cool if it's feasible in SC.
Question is, will heavier or supposedly tougher ships (like Terrapin, Carrack, military exploration vessels...) be able.to dive deeper, or the difference in crush depth will be negligible anyways so the less maneuverable ships will loose a dive to a more agile ship every time?
I haven't had time to watch the vid so maybe this was already answered.

Yep that's the Nick Frost of Spaced/Danger 50,000 Volts/Sean Of The Dead/Hot Fuzz :-)

Hyperdrive was delightful, it's a shame it didn't get a alonger run. Look out for the Shiny Red Robots of Vorbis they are not a pleasent bunch. Oh, and a bit of context Re: Garry Neville day - He is a UK football player.

There was not much more info on pressure damage than that, however I'm betting the slot-window Misc ships like the 'farer and Freelancer will have a better depth rating. The Edeavour explorer cab may well have the best, if it can do the Corona of a star it would probably be able to get to denser depths where those very rare elements may be drifting.

 

[Cugino83]

I like the idea and I was expecting something like that to prevent player to fly trough Crusader.
This ia also interesting becouse it open up two new possibile feature in SC:
- different atmo pressure for different planet, with, as a conseguence, different flight behavior (especially when actual control surface will came into play).
- underwater navigation: this is also mentioned in ISC a s apossibile adaptation of the sistem, if that will be implemented and if actual space ship could be used as a submarine remain to be seen, but the tecnological solution is there.

Also this "atmospheric pressure system" could be used for creating azardus anviroments, like hight pressure nebula where only some ship could navigate situation that will add another layer of complexity to the game and another aspect to look at when choosing a ship.

 

[NaffNaffBobFace]

I like the idea and I was expecting something like that to prevent player to fly trough Crusader.
This ia also interesting becouse it open up two new possibile feature in SC:
- different atmo pressure for different planet, with, as a conseguence, different flight behavior (especially when actual control surface will came into play).
- underwater navigation: this is also mentioned in ISC a s apossibile adaptation of the sistem, if that will be implemented and if actual space ship could be used as a submarine remain to be seen, but the tecnological solution is there.

Also this "atmospheric pressure system" could be used for creating azardus anviroments, like hight pressure nebula where only some ship could navigate situation that will add another layer of complexity to the game and another aspect to look at when choosing a ship.

The under water thing talking about and mentioning if engines would function got my attention as I immediately thought of the Mighty Aurora and the Connie, you wouldn't need the flight engines for under water propulsion as they've got those big VTOL fans... Just run 'em in reverse and you have a submerseable

 

[Lorddarthvik]

When it comes to the lore, it would be weird that we got antigravity in the verse, but we can't run ships under water...

Btw I really deeply dislike the addition of grav-lev/antigrav to the game. It's absolutely immersion breaking imo. SC was leaning towards hard sci fi more then fantasy, and this made every technological limitation in the verse feel way more arbitrary and just a gameplay balance thing instead of supported by the universe it's based on.

 

[Bambooza]

Right at the end of the last Friday Dev Hour they discussed Crusader having planetary pressure which could crush your ship if you got too deep:

Always the issue with going to deep.

 

[Bambooza]

When it comes to the lore, it would be weird that we got antigravity in the verse, but we can't run ships under water...

Btw I really deeply dislike the addition of grav-lev/antigrav to the game. It's absolutely immersion breaking imo. SC was leaning towards hard sci fi more then fantasy, and this made every technological limitation in the verse feel way more arbitrary and just a gameplay balance thing instead of supported by the universe it's based on.

grav-lev and antigrav in some ways I can see it being immersion breaking but from a game design standpoint it makes a lot of the game mechanics easier as well as helps players with navigation. (it does add the complexity of objects transferring between physic grids). So yes we should only have gravity in space inside ships that are accelerating but that would make it hard to catch up with said ships hard to have ww2 style dog fighting or any sort of space interaction where we can see the other ship not just some blip on a screen. lev tech is also nice for ground vehicles to allow them to go fast so they are usable and not the slow speed that would normally be required for wheel based land travel. When 4x4 over rough ground it's often easier and faster to walk then take a vehicle. While people really like their UTV's here they are still kept on dirt roads and old logging trails and not off blazing across uncharted territory.

 

[Lorddarthvik]

grav-lev and antigrav in some ways I can see it being immersion breaking but from a game design standpoint it makes a lot of the game mechanics easier as well as helps players with navigation. (it does add the complexity of objects transferring between physic grids). So yes we should only have gravity in space inside ships that are accelerating but that would make it hard to catch up with said ships hard to have ww2 style dog fighting or any sort of space interaction where we can see the other ship not just some blip on a screen. lev tech is also nice for ground vehicles to allow them to go fast so they are usable and not the slow speed that would normally be required for wheel based land travel. When 4x4 over rough ground it's often easier and faster to walk then take a vehicle. While people really like their UTV's here they are still kept on dirt roads and old logging trails and not off blazing across uncharted territory.

Ah, I see I forgot to clarify what part of the fake gravity stuff I meant!
I just scrapped like 6 pages worth of a wall of text explaining it all lol.

Anyways my points were:
- I don't have any issues with artificial gravity in ships or the tractor beam or the dragonflies and such doing gravlev cos they were built around that concept and their design makes perfect sense in-universe for me. Just DON'T do it for space-flgiht propulsion pls.
- using anti gravity for stuff like a floating staircase instead of a ladder to enter a ship or especially for glorified landing skids, it feels like a 4th wall break. The thing that is supposed to be alien and exotic is now a joke. "hah, you taken this game universe seriously for so long? You stupid child, here have a cheaply made floating piece of geometry, cos F U, it's anti grav bitcheeees!"
It can also be a sign of them being creatively so corrupt they didn't even try to come up with anything worthwhile, cos this way it was so much faster to have a working ship+package to sell right when the freefly hit... At least that was the vibe I got from the Nomad video they put out.
- slapping on anti-grav tech to trivial objects just-because will lead to more cases of this happening, making the design of the ships and the world less and less cohesive and less immersive, cos if A can have anti-grav, why can't B and C, and for that matter, how does X makes sense while Y doesn't if we have a source of unlimited power like anti gravity....

just my 2eurocents...

Anyways, back to on-topic:
We have energy shields that stop the physical pressure from bullets, why can't it stop pressure from atmo/water? Or can it? Will Shields matter when it comes to crush depth of ships?

 

[NaffNaffBobFace]

Ah, I see I forgot to clarify what part of the fake gravity stuff I meant!
I just scrapped like 6 pages worth of a wall of text explaining it all lol.

Anyways my points were:
- I don't have any issues with artificial gravity in ships or the tractor beam or the dragonflies and such doing gravlev cos they were built around that concept and their design makes perfect sense in-universe for me. Just DON'T do it for space-flgiht propulsion pls.
- using anti gravity for stuff like a floating staircase instead of a ladder to enter a ship or especially for glorified landing skids, it feels like a 4th wall break. The thing that is supposed to be alien and exotic is now a joke. "hah, you taken this game universe seriously for so long? You stupid child, here have a cheaply made floating piece of geometry, cos F U, it's anti grav bitcheeees!"
It can also be a sign of them being creatively so corrupt they didn't even try to come up with anything worthwhile, cos this way it was so much faster to have a working ship+package to sell right when the freefly hit... At least that was the vibe I got from the Nomad video they put out.
- slapping on anti-grav tech to trivial objects just-because will lead to more cases of this happening, making the design of the ships and the world less and less cohesive and less immersive, cos if A can have anti-grav, why can't B and C, and for that matter, how does X makes sense while Y doesn't if we have a source of unlimited power like anti gravity....

just my 2eurocents...

Anyways, back to on-topic:
We have energy shields that stop the physical pressure from bullets, why can't it stop pressure from atmo/water? Or can it? Will Shields matter when it comes to crush depth of ships?

[Theorycrafting]
For things like the staircases they could once again use the Quantanium macguffin, which is starting to be a super useful way to explain a lot of random stuff...

Imagine if you will that Quantanium on the Xi'An homeworld is not rare, it is as abundant as Coal is/was on earth. As it has exotic Quantum properties, and quantum is part of the relationship of particles and matter to each other, it is not outside of the bounds of reason that if it was abundant where they evolved, Xi'An science and technology could have a slightly different set of physics which introduced the theories of Quantum Mechanics at the human equivalent of the 1700's 1800's and saw them being able to take advantage of those properties in the human equivalent of the 1950's, meaning by the time they hit the space era their principles were baked into their technology and capabilities at the base level. (if you imagine how Humanities relationship with nuclear fission but with something which can bend space and time and less world-wars getting in the way of peaceful progress with it)

Those steps into the ship may not be anti-gravity in the traditional sense, they may be in a quantum-relative-position relationship with the vessel they are built in to quantum symbiosis with, and when instructed alter that relative space relationship with the vessel to inhabit that seperate place without needing any additional power, energy or matter linking the two objecs together...

Although they themselves organically may not have any quantum properties, that is not to say they don't have some trace levels of quantanium in their biology, just as humans have trace levels of uranium in ours. This would then explain how they can build folding staircases which have no visible connections etc without having to resort to anti-grav and zero-point-energy. That is assuming there isn't already zero point energy being used to explain some things in game, we do already have Artificial Gravity on our ships which runs without ships systems being on - that could also be used to hold those staircase steps in place with the steps in artificial grav relationship with the vessel not anti-grav with the planet/platform/asteroid etc it is extended on to...?
[/Theorycrafting]

I like theorycrafting, such fun and you're never wrong until the official Lore people pipe up and say exactly what the story is for that particular subject.

 

[Bambooza]

Ah, I see I forgot to clarify what part of the fake gravity stuff I meant!
I just scrapped like 6 pages worth of a wall of text explaining it all lol.

Anyways my points were:
- I don't have any issues with artificial gravity in ships or the tractor beam or the dragonflies and such doing gravlev cos they were built around that concept and their design makes perfect sense in-universe for me. Just DON'T do it for space-flgiht propulsion pls.
- using anti gravity for stuff like a floating staircase instead of a ladder to enter a ship or especially for glorified landing skids, it feels like a 4th wall break. The thing that is supposed to be alien and exotic is now a joke. "hah, you taken this game universe seriously for so long? You stupid child, here have a cheaply made floating piece of geometry, cos F U, it's anti grav bitcheeees!"
It can also be a sign of them being creatively so corrupt they didn't even try to come up with anything worthwhile, cos this way it was so much faster to have a working ship+package to sell right when the freefly hit... At least that was the vibe I got from the Nomad video they put out.
- slapping on anti-grav tech to trivial objects just-because will lead to more cases of this happening, making the design of the ships and the world less and less cohesive and less immersive, cos if A can have anti-grav, why can't B and C, and for that matter, how does X makes sense while Y doesn't if we have a source of unlimited power like anti gravity....

just my 2eurocents...

Anyways, back to on-topic:
We have energy shields that stop the physical pressure from bullets, why can't it stop pressure from atmo/water? Or can it? Will Shields matter when it comes to crush depth of ships?

ah ya the rule of cool has led to some cheap design concepts. Luckily for the most part it’s been contained with in a few manufactures with alien tech or alien manufacture

 

[NaffNaffBobFace]

Anyways, back to on-topic:
We have energy shields that stop the physical pressure from bullets, why can't it stop pressure from atmo/water? Or can it? Will Shields matter when it comes to crush depth of ships?

Now that's a cool question, there is a difference between kenetic energy and pressure as pressure is the weight of mass pressing on another area of less pressure attempting to inhabit that area of less mass and become equal with it, whereas kinetic energy is mass in motion.

That said ships and stations already have air-shields, so the tech is already there it's just how those shields repel the air, if it has to be anchored to somewhere you'll still have the issue of having the shields crush I think?

EDIT - may not be 100% scientifically accurate -

 

[Cugino83]

...

Anyways, back to on-topic:
We have energy shields that stop the physical pressure from bullets, why can't it stop pressure from atmo/water? Or can it? Will Shields matter when it comes to crush depth of ships?

Err... axcctually they don't.
Shield block 100% of energy "bullet" from a laser weapon, but only reduce the one from an actual old faitfull lead bullet not absorbing it, but slowing it down... I think sometinig like a "magnetic field" that try to catch the bullet why flying into your ship... something similar to a "gel" layer of the bulletproof glass that is design to stick to the bulllet and slow it down.
For the Sakuron I suppose they just develope a better and more powerfull field.

So accorgind to this working view of shield tecnology pressure can't be stopped since is a phisical force that effect your ship.

 

[FZD]

- using anti gravity for stuff like a floating staircase instead of a ladder to enter a ship or especially for glorified landing skids, it feels like a 4th wall break. The thing that is supposed to be alien and exotic is now a joke. "hah, you taken this game universe seriously for so long? You stupid child, here have a cheaply made floating piece of geometry, cos F U, it's anti grav bitcheeees!"
It can also be a sign of them being creatively so corrupt they didn't even try to come up with anything worthwhile, cos this way it was so much faster to have a working ship+package to sell right when the freefly hit... At least that was the vibe I got from the Nomad video they put out.

Sure, it's kinda cheap to just have a floating rectangle after another and call that a staircase, but that's really not just sci-fi fantasy. It could be just a really advanced quantum locking method (for actually levitating stairs) or it could be the struts are just optically imperceptible, y'know, stuff that we kinda have today but give it a few hundred years and maybe they've made that tech much more advanced.
As for landing skids, that's another perfectly plausible but advanced version of tech we have today: Just give the skids an insane electric charge and they'll generate an electromagnetic field that works against the magnetic field of the planet, counteracting gravity.

Anyways, back to on-topic:
We have energy shields that stop the physical pressure from bullets, why can't it stop pressure from atmo/water? Or can it? Will Shields matter when it comes to crush depth of ships?

Well, Sukoran is the only shield that perfectly stops ballistics, and it doesn't regenerate constantly. So if Sukoran was to keep out water while you go flying under the sea, it'd be rather short period.
But maybe we'll get ships (or shields) that are designed for everything from undersea to space, it really depends on what the ship is designed for. Y'know, like I got a wrist watch that is water resistant, but just because that tech exist doesn't mean every wristwatch would be water resistant.

 

[Lorddarthvik]

[Theorycrafting]
For things like the staircases they could once again use the Quantanium macguffin, which is starting to be a super useful way to explain a lot of random stuff...

Imagine if you will that Quantanium on the Xi'An homeworld is not rare, it is as abundant as Coal is/was on earth. As it has exotic Quantum properties, and quantum is part of the relationship of particles and matter to each other, it is not outside of the bounds of reason that if it was abundant where they evolved, Xi'An science and technology could have a slightly different set of physics which introduced the theories of Quantum Mechanics at the human equivalent of the 1700's 1800's and saw them being able to take advantage of those properties in the human equivalent of the 1950's, meaning by the time they hit the space era their principles were baked into their technology and capabilities at the base level. (if you imagine how Humanities relationship with nuclear fission but with something which can bend space and time and less world-wars getting in the way of peaceful progress with it)

Those steps into the ship may not be anti-gravity in the traditional sense, they may be in a quantum-relative-position relationship with the vessel they are built in to quantum symbiosis with, and when instructed alter that relative space relationship with the vessel to inhabit that seperate place without needing any additional power, energy or matter linking the two objecs together...

Although they themselves organically may not have any quantum properties, that is not to say they don't have some trace levels of quantanium in their biology, just as humans have trace levels of uranium in ours. This would then explain how they can build folding staircases which have no visible connections etc without having to resort to anti-grav and zero-point-energy. That is assuming there isn't already zero point energy being used to explain some things in game, we do already have Artificial Gravity on our ships which runs without ships systems being on - that could also be used to hold those staircase steps in place with the steps in artificial grav relationship with the vessel not anti-grav with the planet/platform/asteroid etc it is extended on to...?
[/Theorycrafting]

I like theorycrafting, such fun and you're never wrong until the official Lore people pipe up and say exactly what the story is for that particular subject.

Err... axcctually they don't.
Shield block 100% of energy "bullet" from a laser weapon, but only reduce the one from an actual old faitfull lead bullet not absorbing it, but slowing it down... I think sometinig like a "magnetic field" that try to catch the bullet why flying into your ship... something similar to a "gel" layer of the bulletproof glass that is design to stick to the bulllet and slow it down.
For the Sakuron I suppose they just develope a better and more powerfull field.

So accorgind to this working view of shield tecnology pressure can't be stopped since is a phisical force that effect your ship.

Sure, it's kinda cheap to just have a floating rectangle after another and call that a staircase, but that's really not just sci-fi fantasy. It could be just a really advanced quantum locking method (for actually levitating stairs) or it could be the struts are just optically imperceptible, y'know, stuff that we kinda have today but give it a few hundred years and maybe they've made that tech much more advanced.
As for landing skids, that's another perfectly plausible but advanced version of tech we have today: Just give the skids an insane electric charge and they'll generate an electromagnetic field that works against the magnetic field of the planet, counteracting gravity.



Well, Sukoran is the only shield that perfectly stops ballistics, and it doesn't regenerate constantly. So if Sukoran was to keep out water while you go flying under the sea, it'd be rather short period.
But maybe we'll get ships (or shields) that are designed for everything from undersea to space, it really depends on what the ship is designed for. Y'know, like I got a wrist watch that is water resistant, but just because that tech exist doesn't mean every wristwatch would be water resistant.

I love that you guys came up with creative complex and believable, immersive solutions. They are awesome and I'd be happy to see them implemented in the game. You all should get at least a week's wages from CIG cos you are doing their fucking job!

That's my point really, they built a world so detailed and yet they took the easy way of "it's just alien tech, magic" . And they did actually said it like this. It's not just a case of this "magic" being represented in the game models in a cheap way, they don't have any lore behind them either other then it being magic. This annoys me cos I'm afraid they will pull this cheap bullshit more often in the future.

 

[CosmicTrader]

Thanks!
I loved that movie. A classic....
hehehe Now we will get 'Cloud Campers' as well as pad Campers. hehehe

 

[Cugino83]

I love that you guys came up with creative complex and believable, immersive solutions. They are awesome and I'd be happy to see them implemented in the game. You all should get at least a week's wages from CIG cos you are doing their fucking job!

That's my point really, they built a world so detailed and yet they took the easy way of "it's just alien tech, magic" . And they did actually said it like this. It's not just a case of this "magic" being represented in the game models in a cheap way, they don't have any lore behind them either other then it being magic. This annoys me cos I'm afraid they will pull this cheap bullshit more often in the future.

Errr.... I didn't came up with any new idea actually... my explanation is taken from CIG in-lore explanation of shield teck... maybe not in the word, but sure in the concept.

I see the problem 'tho: somo info are digged in video and post far back in the past and vill ge very likely under the radar for most of the player, I hope CIG will use the Galactipedia also for implementing this kind of info.

 

[Lorddarthvik]

Errr.... I didn't came up with any new idea actually... my explanation is taken from CIG in-lore explanation of shield teck... maybe not in the word, but sure in the concept.

I see the problem 'tho: somo info are digged in video and post far back in the past and vill ge very likely under the radar for most of the player, I hope CIG will use the Galactipedia also for implementing this kind of info.

Ah yes, I quoted your post about shields by mistake lol
Also you are correct about the problem.that lots of info needs to be signed up and not easy to find, for now at least.