Players kicked once they capture idris

GrumpyCat

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At first I thought, "someone hacked", but then I watched the video and it seems rather normal. Not only that if you hacked, do you not get a banned message not a kicked message?



Kicked: User Initiated Kick From Servers (Kicked by CIG after capturing Idris)
After we succcessfully captured the Idris, we were immediately kicked by CIG.
Just want to transmit the fact. Players who still want to particiate the event please take a consideration. o7.

Video Proof: https://www.bilibili.com/video/BV1T2421M7tp/?vd_source=70d62e89fe242b963461bc3eba0a314c
https://www.bilibili.com/video/BV14W421P7Je/?spm_id_from=333.337.search-card.all.click

 

Talonsbane

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I'd give them a kick too, though mine would be a kick in the pants from them seeing how much better their skills are than mine, so they'd lol their way to the floor. That counts, right? *shrugs* At least they'd be laughing.
 
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Aramsolari

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Players have been clipping through ship walls since the earliest days of this game.

The devs kicked these guys because this was a limited event. Still....poor form and this could have been communicated better.

I read Chinese and the general consensus in that video's comments section is that that community is pretty pissed with a number of members saying they won't spend anymore on ships. Jokes on them, none of us spend money on ships anymore!

#nocashtillPyro
 

NaffNaffBobFace

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While I understand the frustration I'm surprised they're surprised they didn't know it was prohibited - it's not like it's not in the ToS we all signed up to not to use exploits:

This clause describes how you should behave as a member of our community.

The RSI Services are provided for the enjoyment, constructive engagement, and appreciation of RSI’s games. Behavior which harms such enjoyment by other customers, offends RSI employees or is illegal, is in conflict with these goals, and RSI’s employees are authorized to take appropriate measures to protect the goals of the RSI Terms. In furtherance of these aims, the following rules of conduct apply:

You must not use any of the RSI Services in any improper or unlawful manner or in breach of any legislation or license that applies to you. The foregoing shall apply to any behavior in connection with your use of the RSI Services, and shall include, by way of example, the following actions:

[...]
  • Exploit errors in design, features which are not documented and/or bugs to gain access that would otherwise not be available to obtain any competitive advantage.


The only thing the defence 'I'm being punished for the unfinished state of the game' does is tell us someone didn't read the ToS without telling us they didn't read the ToS.
 

Talonsbane

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I openly admit that the only "exploits" that I've "used", were completely accidental glitches that always caused me issues instead of anybody else & that was back in the days of the early 3.0* days. I still have memories of my ship's ladders "assisting" my face through the surface of wherever I happened to be when that glitch happened. It was like being in a blend of final destination & groundhog day. Good thing I've got a messed up sense of humor & enjoyed those movies. LoL
 

GrumpyCat

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While I understand the frustration I'm surprised they're surprised they didn't know it was prohibited - it's not like it's not in the ToS we all signed up to not to use exploits:

This clause describes how you should behave as a member of our community.

The RSI Services are provided for the enjoyment, constructive engagement, and appreciation of RSI’s games. Behavior which harms such enjoyment by other customers, offends RSI employees or is illegal, is in conflict with these goals, and RSI’s employees are authorized to take appropriate measures to protect the goals of the RSI Terms. In furtherance of these aims, the following rules of conduct apply:

You must not use any of the RSI Services in any improper or unlawful manner or in breach of any legislation or license that applies to you. The foregoing shall apply to any behavior in connection with your use of the RSI Services, and shall include, by way of example, the following actions:

[...]
  • Exploit errors in design, features which are not documented and/or bugs to gain access that would otherwise not be available to obtain any competitive advantage.


The only thing the defence 'I'm being punished for the unfinished state of the game' does is tell us someone didn't read the ToS without telling us they didn't read the ToS.
I get this mentality, but im not about it. This is supposed to be a fun STAR CITIZEN event right? The culture of SC in alpha has always been about the sillyness around the buggy state of the game. Arbitrarily deciding what is abuse of that bugginess to try and make a serious competition is in itself silly.

For instance.. the rules of the event were changed mid event.. do the people who ran away with the idris keep their hours since they were following the CURRENT rules, or can you just willy nilly change official events/giveaway rules midway and wipe it clean.

Lets be honest.. they forgot what state this game is and how to stay in touch with their community... someone got butthurt they got outplayed, and im guessing its marketing.
 

NaffNaffBobFace

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I get this mentality, but im not about it. This is supposed to be a fun STAR CITIZEN event right? The culture of SC in alpha has always been about the sillyness around the buggy state of the game. Arbitrarily deciding what is abuse of that bugginess to try and make a serious competition is in itself silly.

For instance.. the rules of the event were changed mid event.. do the people who ran away with the idris keep their hours since they were following the CURRENT rules, or can you just willy nilly change official events/giveaway rules midway and wipe it clean.

Lets be honest.. they forgot what state this game is and how to stay in touch with their community... someone got butthurt they got outplayed, and im guessing its marketing.
I believe it was itself an exploit which some players activated to glitch the craft outside of the boundary of play away from other players, be it into a planet or outside of the System boundary, which forced that rule change. No point in saying the player who stays in the seat the longest gets the prize of the seat is somewhere no one else can get to it, that just becomes a game of waiting for the next 30k. No exploitation would have meant no rule change.

For them to be kicking players doing exploits it suggests it has become a serious enough problem that the prize pot risked going to someone who has acted in bad faith.

What is worse, exploitative players getting kicked or a prize worth $thousands going to someone running an unfair advantage against the ToS they and the rest of us signed up to?

Exploits are not out-playing someone because not everyone has access to them. Players agreed not to obtain an uncompetitive advantage through exploits (play/abilities not available to everyone). They obtained an uncompetitive advantage through exploits against that agreement. Their actions removed themselves from the competition because they walked away from the agreement that forms a binding part of it.

That's the long and the short of it from what I can see.

I don't disagree the game is not in a position to robustly fend off players acting in bad faith but it is undeniable every single person in that game space agreed not to be dicks, and some chose to be either because they didn't read the ToS or because they chose not to comply. Ignorance is no defence in the court of law. Neither is choosing to ignore the terms of a contact you agreed to.
 
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Aramsolari

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The issue here is that the gaming culture in China is quite different than that in the West. TOS is something to be briefly glanced at but mostly ignored. The Chinese gaming community is one where cheating is rampant via exploits, script hacks, etc. Exploits are eagerly searched for, then jealously guarded, and exploited upon their discovery. I remember playing Counter Strike in an internet cafe in Hangzhou almost twenty years ago (I had to register my foreign passport to use a gaming PC, it was fucking weird) and even back then the local kids were using aimbot/wallhack in a LAN environment lol.

As far as many are concerned, the onus is for the Devs to fix glitches and not to rely on any imaginary honor system from the player base. The general consensus is that you're a dummy for not taking full advantage of glitches, exploits, and third party hacks.

As far as I know Star Citizen is also poorly localized. Due to the complexity of the game, there are numerous guides out there that translate key concepts and game mechanics from English to would be Chinese Star Citizens. I vaguely remember awhile back a member of the Chinese SC community hanging out on these boards asking for translation help. Either way, I really doubt accurate translations of CIG's TOS are floating around lol.

I'm definitely not one to gate keep the game. I sincerely believe this game should be accessible to anyone regardless of language and gaming culture differences. That said I do see CIG going ahead with dedicated servers for the Sinosphere and ones for the Anglosphere in the future. Tis for the best and will save all of us a lot of grief in the future.
 
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GrumpyCat

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I didnt want to drag that into this, but now that someone has... my feeling is they wouldnt have been kicked if they werent Chinese.

More to the point, the warning provided was in English.

How many ships probably rammed the doors trying to clip through before they managed it? How many people probably tried EVAing and falling through the ceiling?
 
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Aramsolari

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I didnt want to drag that into this, but now that someone has... my feeling is they wouldnt have been kicked if they werent Chinese.

More to the point, the warning provided was in English.
I guess we’ll never know.

I do think CIG needs to hire Chinese speaking community managers and properly localize the game if there aren’t plans to do so yet. They really need to stress then reiterate what is and isn’t acceptable behavior in the game.
 

NaffNaffBobFace

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Ethnicity and cultural acceptance/tolerance of X, Y or Z conduct...? It could be, but could that also be overgenneralisation... I know plenty of Anglos who'd loose their crap and demand refunds at getting kicked... Sounds like a good topic for taking to The Outside thread!

 
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Talonsbane

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I learned LONG ago & have had countless encounters with players from China for a couple decades. The Chinese claim to be all about honor, but their actions, especially in the gaming community, prove that's a load of BS larger than a Dyson Sphere around a super giant star. Granted, I'm sure that there are some that have & play with honor, but easily most don't based on endless examples. Which is why when I was at a Bar Citizen the day before many of the CIG staff left for China last year, I told them that while including the Chinese into the Verse might be profitable, it will eventually destroy the game if they are not kept in check with a tight unbreakable leash, like not allowing them outside of Chinese servers as difficult as that will be thanks to VPNs existing.
 
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BUTUZ

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The issue here is that the gaming culture in China is quite different than that in the West. TOS is something to be briefly glanced at but mostly ignored. .
No that pretty much describes the rest of the world too.
 

Aramsolari

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I learned LONG ago & have had countless encounters with players from China for a couple decades. The Chinese claim to be all about honor, but their actions, especially in the gaming community, prove that's a load of BS larger than a Dyson Sphere around a super giant star. Granted, I'm sure that there are some that have & play with honor, but easily most don't based on endless examples. Which is why when I was at a Bar Citizen the day before many of the CIG staff left for China last year, I told them that while including the Chinese into the Verse might be profitable, it will eventually destroy the game if they are not kept in check with a tight unbreakable leash, like not allowing them outside of Chinese servers as difficult as that will be thanks to VPNs existing.
I think if there are dedicated localized regional servers, Chinese players will stay on them. Star Citizen is a complex game with a pretty steep entry requirements. It doesn't help at all when you add in English language requirements as well. I mean this isn't a simple shooter like Overwatch or the typical mindless stuff that domestic devs like Tencent pump out. You can't just fire up this game and do a quick session like you can an FPS or MOBA. Just like everywhere else, you gotta be a bit crazy to get into Star Citizen and the same applies in China.

You can't fault them for their enthusiasm for the game though. I mean this is a fan made video screened at a Bar Citizen meetup in Chongqing.

View: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=UM8bV1uP87s&ab_channel=GongYu
 

Talonsbane

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You can't fault them for their enthusiasm for the game though. I mean this is a fan made video screened at a Bar Citizen meetup in Chongqing.
It's a well made player made video for sure, to be honest, it reminded me of a blend of the show The King's Avatar, but with them using Star Citizen instead.

This being said, regardless of where somebody is from, cheaters deserve to suffer for their actions. For a group of people that endlessly claim that in their culture, honor is of such high importance, the vast majority of them are either pathological liars or hypocrites with no honor. I welcome anybody to try to prove me wrong, but the actions of their very long history, as well as those current, show that I'm correct. I'm always happy to meet & interact with the exceptions that are actually honorable, which was 1 reason I enjoyed that show so much. It gave me hope that I've simply had bad luck so far for the most part.
 
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NaffNaffBobFace

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It's a well made player made video for sure, to be honest, it reminded me of a blend of the show The King's Avatar, but with them using Star Citizen instead.

This being said, regardless of where somebody is from, cheaters deserve to suffer for their actions. For a group of people that endlessly claim that in their culture, honor is of such high importance, the vast majority of them are either pathological liars or hypocrites with no honor. I welcome anybody to try to prove me wrong, but the actions of their very long history, as well as those current, show that I'm correct. I'm always happy to meet & interact with the exceptions that are actually honorable, which was 1 reason I enjoyed that show so much. It gave me hope that I've simply had bad luck so far for the most part.
I'm not sure if I'm exposed to the same cultural references as you are but I thought the whole Honour thing was Japanese...? Hence the whole concept of Seppuku etc...?

I know honour isn't reserved for just one nation but it isn't one of the traits I've been bought up to associate with China as I have been with Japan...?
 
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Talonsbane

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I'm not sure if I'm exposed to the same cultural references as you are but I thought the whole Honour thing was Japanese...? Hence the whole concept of Seppuku etc...?

I know honour isn't reserved for just one nation but it isn't one of the traits I've been bought up to associate with China as I have been with Japan...?
True, the Japanese are known for being obsessed with honor, but from my experiences, most of the major cultures from Asia tend to have an obsession with honor at least to some degree. Though, those of the older generations have held to it far more strongly than the younger generations. Which is why the older generations would take such extreme offense if you called the honorability of their actions into question.
 
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