Qualifying for Positions

Shadow Reaper

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So to go back to the original observation, the driver's seat in the tonk has no radar. Unless someone can observe first hand that it does, I'll go by the half dozen vids I've watched now, and assert that without someone in the command position, the Tonk is mostly blind. I have already seen on more than one occassion, tonks working together running into each other, which is a great way to get yourself killed. Tonks therefore require a crew, and players who crew it together are best suited to design a tutorial of sorts that others can avail themselves to or not.

If such a tutorial existsed, as a tonk owner I would certainly not hire on any crew that didn't demonstrate they know what they're doing. I get that this is a game, but if that is a justification for lack of competence, I'm not impressed. I suspect, that those poo-pooing the notion of training are planning to solo mine all game and move on once they're bored. I think what they don't appreciate is many of us are interested to actually build skills and be good at some things.
 

vahadar

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I am not sure i have read all posts the same as you did @Shadow Reaper. I do not think there is any poo-pooing the notion of training, but just some people a bit scared of a rigid organization, which can be understandable, and which is not fun.

Of course we need to find a solution in your case for tanks, and i bet it will come from CIG, the driver will probably have access to radar in the end. And if some people get some smart tutorial/guide on how to do it in the meantime, that is great. Right now CIG is forcing tonk to work with a team of players, but what if you want to run it with 2 npc and be a driver? They will obviously change that.

And of course we need competence and building skills and be good at things, it just seems the idea of showcasing those skills does not fit in the TEST mentality. I do not think people here have said differently. Again the concerns raised were about the rigidity implied. A certification system is great if it is not a mandatory system to be able to join any op, but just to tell people who is proficient at what when you are looking for something specific. Still it can discriminate as Mich said, as some people might only choose others based on their certs when they just play.

Myself i was trying to highlight 2 things : we need training and we can use if needed a loose structure that can reflect peoples' general skills, be it piloting or mining or fps or vehicles or whatever, but nothing too complex. That is why i mentionned the CFT structure, which of course is not valid for vehicles and mining, i was just trying to highlight the loose simplicity of it to describe general skills associated with piloting.
 
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Shadow Reaper

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I don't understand your objection. No one here has at any time suggested a rigid, mandatory, anal, qualification system; yet several have presumed to say that TEST is not a good fit because qualifying somehow takes effort. How many reassurances absent any anal suggestions do people need to stop acting scared of anal suggestions?

TEST is so everyone can play their own game. If your game includes demonstrating to others you are competent, then a voluntary competency qualification is a good thing.

I have to disagree about the driver radar. For the same reason the turrets in the Cutty and Vanguard are not accessible to the pilot, radar is unlikely to be accessible to a tonk driver. CIG is forcing players to work together or suffer large penalties and in this case, the penalty is situational awareness--a most severe penalty indeed.
 

SoloFlyer

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For me, I wouldn't say I'm poo-pooing it. Personally I have nothing against training, the idea of not training is a good way to commit to the fact that you are going to waste a lot of credits with repairs/insurance/etc. I myself will have a limited play time so literally everything I do will essentially be training in one form or another. I'm just not likely to be bothered to try for a "qualification" in something when it is going to mean a very significant amount of time in real life to earn it. But that's ok. If someone else wants to work on a qualification for something that's fine. Some groups may want it but those aren't the types of groups that I'm going to be trying to get into anyway. I'm going to be looking for the groups that want to accomplish a task yes but are more interested in having fun doing it.
 

Shadow Reaper

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I totally agree. I'll own I have no interest in grinding night after night to get a pile of imaginary gold. I'd rather purchase the kinds of ships that interest me at least to start, and focus on playing my game, which I think is going to involve first, deep strikes into Vanduul territory with a wing of Sentinels, mainly fitted with Harby mods. After this I'd love to move on to a Polaris to see what that can do. Seems a natural progression to me.

However, I think both Han and Vahadar made great points. Han noted that complex roles can be broken down to tiers so instruction is stepped. Anyone could pick up an hour qualification and make a tier and if they're loving it, pick up another tier, etc. Vandahar noted book learning is no substitute for training, which of course we'll do as we tackle missions as groups.

What I don't want is to be cut off from the most dramatic stuff in game because no one wants to focus enough to do the really challenging tasks. I think CIG has planned the Vanduul missions to be very challenging.

It's noteworthy that the main history of conflict with the Vanduul is in the inward side of the negative spiral (North of the West), by Orion; and they plan the "Sons of Orion" storyline to be the feature there. Probably we'll see much of Sq42 happens up there.

They also dropped he bomb that the Vanduul have attacked in the Outward side of the negative spiral (South of the West), by Leir; so there is someplace to go to kill Vanduul if you want to get away from the main battles and to sneaky exploration.

I doubt many will be successful at stuff like this if their group is composed of people who haven't gained some real skills. I'd rather spend the time to gain competency, than regularly get all blowed up.

All the Vanduul deserve to die, and I wanna kill them. May the flees of a thousand camels infest their armpits.
 

vahadar

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@Shadow Reaper I think that at some point when you would like to see something set up like what you describe, you can take it on your own hands.

I encourage you to talk to our combat "officers" to get tips if needed, so you can take charge of that certification project and develop it. I do not see why you would need a "permission" from someone to take the matters on your own hands. So go ahead :like:🍻
 

Shadow Reaper

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That's really not how it works. In the past I tried several times to organize a privateering group and was ordered to cease and desist. It takes a leader with enough time to hang on Discord, get known by the proper people at TEST, and then if they okay it you can organize. I don't honestly have that kind of time, though I wish I did.

Besides, this all started with the Tonk and I don't own one. I'm interested in cap ship crew training and I don't own one of those either. I think for someoe to step forward and offer instruction, they need to have some experience with the thing they want to share. All I really did was note the Tonk needs a trained crew to be effective because CIG delberatly did not place a radar for the driver. He has no situational awareness without a commander.
 
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