RSI Ship Vote #3 - Bomber of the Year (Retaliator Vs. Gladiator)

[AstroSam]

The retaliator is far superior due to it being modular, but it seemed limited when I had one cause it needed a full crew to be capable of any real survivability. I had one and traded it out for the starfarrer. If a person has a full crew I could see the retaliator as being a super fortress like the B29. There is nothing wrong with the ship when I had it. I am just not a bomber pilot per say. that said though, I would crew up on one in a heartbeat. I just wont own another one or pilot it. just not my style.

Okay, thats a reason for not voting her - but "hate"...? Seems to me like a little bit too much emotions for simply not fitting into personal playing references ;)

I also owned a Tally - and she has become a Carrack...well, before I melted her and bought the Explorer Mega-Package instead :D But that said, yeah, I agree: the Tally is a multi-crew-only ship. But nevertheless, IF you are into multi-crew, I think shes pretty awesome due to her modular layout plus I like the design. I presume that this ship will become one of the most feared opponents within SQ42. Looking to my history of playing Wing Commander & Co. I always feared and hated (there it is - and these are real emotions based on multiple "load savegame" operations) those missions where you had to dogfight plus keep an eye on bombers and incoming torpedos to keep your mothership alive.
The Gladiator, hm...don't know she not a good dogfighter nor a frightening bomber; don't know what to do with her.

 

[Floating Cloud]

I voted the Tali. Gladiator can be very effective against Vanduuls and pirates, Tali is more versatile. It can be used as a bomber, dropship, heavy armed transporter and personnel transporter.

Isn't it $165 vs $275 ?

Quite right on the price, $165 is the correct price (schoolboy error, I did a historic price lookup on 'Gladi' - doh :))

 

[CaptainArchmage]

I'm currently backing the Retaliator. The Gladiator is a good fighter-bomber, but when one wants a long range bomber for attacking big ships in operation yawspoon, you probably need the Retaliator.

YES the Retaliator has a bit of a problem in that there's no way to bring the other guns to bear. If we had something like the hornet system to target our turrets from the main control seat, or at least two guns that might help a lot.

My experience with @CaptainRichard indicates that if the Retaliator is held steady, we can more easily target other fast-moving ships, but when the Retaliator rolls it becomes harder to bring the guns about to bear. I think this also means we have an extra skillset for flying the Retaliator and other multicrew ships that, absolutely, as of now. absolutely require the use of player-run turrets.

I think the vote for RSI should have been more of "best bomber" and "best fighter bomber", with best fighter bomber being next week's poll.

 

[Thalstan]

I've flown the 'Tali and while I absolutely love the look of it and the way it flies, it's just too much of a multi-crew ship for me. Honestly, I would rather have a Connie than a 'Tali.

I fell in love with the looks of the 'Tali early. I am and have always been a fan of military planes, and this looks like a cross between a B-1 and a F-117. I am also a fan of the Aegis look and feel. I then flew a 'Tali and yes, it is maneuverable, the throttle is responsive and it's one of those ships that I could really love....if the gameplay was not limited to "shoot torpedos or sit in a turret".

Yes, I know that for large multi-crew warships ships, this is what a lot of the gameplay will be. Sit in a turret and shoot at stuff, sit in the pilot's chair and keep steady as she goes until you fire your main weapon, or work on repairs/shields. Honestly, I am not sure how much "fun" that will be. Yes, this design will keep the pilots on task and prevent them from trying to "turn and burn" their targets, and make things easier for the turrets, but I am thinking the ship is just "eh" in terms of gameplay. This is pretty much the same reason as to why I will probably never own a capital ship

I see the 'Tali as something you use maybe once or twice a year unless this whole "you will find it very hard to keep on a wartime footing all the time" stuff is just talk. I don't see the UEE asking us to take out enemy capital ships or bases that often, which is the only thing you would want a Retaliator for. With 6 crew as a requirement for full utilization, and missions like that requiring multiple bombers, PLUS cover (Wardens for long range, Sabres and Hornets for short range targets), I think there will be more than enough opportunity for me to either crew someone else's Retaliator or fly cover for them on that type of mission.

The other other type of mission I see it doing is a blockade runner (getting cargo through armed resistance). Without pilot operable weapons, the thing is just not capable of being a good blockade runner for anything other than high risk/high reward missions as it will require a lot of crew to do it vs other craft. With anything less than 5 other people, I would be better off in a Freelancer or Connie than a 'Tali trying to do stuff like that.

Now, if you the pilot could just lock the the two forward turrets, forward on a fixed point some 1.5-2 km distant, then the gameplay would be more more diverse for the ship and I might be persuaded to buy something like it. Without it, it won't be good as a pirate ship (you can outrun the torpedos in cruise), it MIGHT be ok as a gunship, but with only Badgers as weapons for the turrets, it won't even able to do much to reduce the shields of a targeted ship. In other words, she is a paper threat as a pirate. Looks great on paper, but performs bad in real life.

 

[Bruttle]

I see the 'Tali as something you use maybe once or twice a year unless this whole "you will find it very hard to keep on a wartime footing all the time" stuff is just talk. I don't see the UEE asking us to take out enemy capital ships or bases that often, which is the only thing you would want a Retaliator for. With 6 crew as a requirement for full utilization, and missions like that requiring multiple bombers, PLUS cover (Wardens for long range, Sabres and Hornets for short range targets), I think there will be more than enough opportunity for me to either crew someone else's Retaliator or fly cover for them on that type of mission.

This is why I picked up a Gladiator instead of a tali. I truly think that when it comes to bomber work, the Tali is going to be the best there is. How many times are we going to go bombing though? I think the vast majority of Retaliators out there will be used mainly for whatever modules are available. I honestly think it will mainly be used as a high risk cargo runner or as a gunship.

For the gunship, I still have hope that my Redeemer will one day become something. I think it has great potential. Plus, when the crew is deployed, you can actually shoot at stuff. It actually has pilot controlled guns. For the high risk cargo, I am mainly looking at my Freelancer MAX. The weight/cargo capacity/engine setup of the max is really, really good. If you are smuggling goods, you won't be fighting. It's all about being fast and undetected. If you stand and fight on a blockade, you will be dead and your cargo forfeit. I think the max will be amazing at that job.

Now don't get me wrong. Bombers won't just be useful against capitol ships. They will be an integral part of every big fight. They will be able to handle not just the huge ships, but the large and even medium ships. Just imagine the damage a Connie can do right now. It's a pretty big hitter with the new guns. It's not a dogfighter, but it does offer some serious firepower to groups. There are other ships out there as well that are even worse. A small scale bomber could knock out these medium ships without an issue and without too much cost.

I also like the modular ideas that they are implementing in the game. This means, in theory, that you should be able to make up a stealth Gladiator just like it's little brother the Hornet Ghost. You now have a bomber that nobody will see coming. So the Gladiator may not be the best bomber, but I think it will be more of the "workhorse" bomber. I can see it tagging along on quite a few missions and actually seeing much more use as a bomber than the Tali.

 

[Gumbi17]

Gladiator! I am more of a smaller bomber, not big on huge bomber crews!

 

[Thalstan]

How many times are we going to go bombing though? I think the vast majority of Retaliators out there will be used mainly for whatever modules are available. I honestly think it will mainly be used as a high risk cargo runner or as a gunship.

Now don't get me wrong. Bombers won't just be useful against capital ships. They will be an integral part of every big fight. They will be able to handle not just the huge ships, but the large and even medium ships. Just imagine the damage a Connie can do right now. It's a pretty big hitter with the new guns. It's not a dogfighter, but it does offer some serious firepower to groups. There are other ships out there as well that are even worse. A small scale bomber could knock out these medium ships without an issue and without too much cost.

I also like the modular ideas that they are implementing in the game. This means, in theory, that you should be able to make up a stealth Gladiator just like it's little brother the Hornet Ghost. You now have a bomber that nobody will see coming. So the Gladiator may not be the best bomber, but I think it will be more of the "workhorse" bomber. I can see it tagging along on quite a few missions and actually seeing much more use as a bomber than the Tali.

Some of the modules may redeem the Retaliator, but as it stands now, it doesn't. If you are looking for a smuggler, you are correct, the DUR or the Connie will be better. The 'Tali is a little faster, but not by that much.

As for bombing...you don't send in one ship with 6 torpedos for a single target. You send in 3 ships with 2 torpedoes each, or maybe 2 with 3, but you don't put all your eggs in one basket. If you need multiple Retaliators, you are talking about a BIG target.

Also, torpedoes are used to take out targets above your weight class. You use it to destroy ships you can't hope to go toe to toe with, and you use it to to destroy by stealth and distance. Torpedoes were not mounted on capital ships because their main armament was their long range guns. Ships that had them and used them on cruisers, battleships, and carriers were submarines, destroyers, and PT boats. Therefore, you would not use a Retaliator against a Connie. You MIGHT use one on a Carrack, but mostly it would be used to take down an Idris, Javelin or bigger ship. You might use a Gladiator against a Connie, but not a 'Tali. In fact, the Retaliator would only really be useful as a bomber against something like the Idris or higher...something big and slow that can't run away or evade.

Again, I love the way it looks, the way it handles, the way you can carry cargo, maybe a med bay, etc. Everytime I see one, I just go googoo eyed over it. I would absolutely love to have one in my hangar, but I just can't justify it because I just don't see a use for it. I am going to save my money for either buying a F8, an Orion, or a Starfarer.

I think that with Military ships, anything over a 2-3 person crew is a waste for anything less than an org based ship. Yes, Test should have several, but I don't think Test needs several hundred...