Ship Loadouts: AEGIS Vanguard Warden

[Loonetik]

This series of posts is to open up a conversation on the different ship load outs. Post what you have tried and what pros or cons you see.

I would like to get to the point in the conversation we can start talking about strategies, for example, what gun or missile would be best to take out shields quickly so you can start doing damage.

• AEGIS Vanguard
• AEGIS Sabre
• ANVIL Hornet F7C

I'm currently using the following post to base my statistics on. If anyone has a better source please let me know.

https://docs.google.com/spreadsheets/d/16Gn3ChMCfM3f_9arW8F-7qQHhgpexWLz2VjTmxqq4j0/edit#gid=1241570521

Current Load out:

Position            Name                        Size    Count    Ammo Velocity    Ammo Range    Weapon DPS (180s)
Fixed Mount (Nose)    BEHR M7A Laser Cannon        5        1        2100            1575        352.66
Fixed Mount (Nose)    Behring MVSA Laser Cannon    2        4        2600            1950        115.20
Manned Turret        Behring Sawbuck                2        2        1170            5265        115.67

Position        Name        Size    Count    Max Speed    Range    Damage
Pylon Mount        Ignite II    2        8        600            12000    300

Pros:

1. M7A does decent damage and makes for a quick kill
2. All guns are fixed
3. All energy weapons so you can't run out of ammo
4. Can fire for extended periods of time without overheating
5. Fire and forget missiles, do not have to maintain lock
6. Cheapest missile you can purchase

Cons:

1. M7A and MVSA do not have the same velocity so the lead pip's do not align
2. M7A is very quiet so it feels like its underpowered
3. Low missile damage
4. Slowest missile speed

Overall thoughts:

I am underwhelmed by the vanguard in PvP. With it a larger signature, slower speed, less maneuverability I feel it still doesn't do enough damage to make up for the down sides.

Even with a manned turret I am hard pressed to get a kill.

 

[FluffyVonRage]

I personally fly an identical loadout - the vanguard feels very much like a rapid strike fighter with the M7A onboard over the chaingun - would be nice to get some faster, more reliable missiles for taking out enemy shields however :P ideally this isn't a ship where you'll need a second pass at an enemy - quad nose mounted lasers very much lean towards intense alpha damage.. It might just be me, but I'm very much reminded of the P38 Lightning when I look at it:

 

[Shadow Reaper]

Its not just you, Fluffy. There is some official CIG literature somewhere, where they liken the Vanguard to the P-38 because of the devastating inboard firepower mounted. It really is easier to target when looking down the barrels.

I think it will always matter completely what your objective is to choose the ideal load-out. Even though players have favorite go-to's, it will always be worth knowing how to fly a special load-out for a special purpose. Anyone who has spent the time in Mechwarrrior knows, you can't build one load-out and expect it to work for every mission. You can however, make general observations about any given platform apart from the bits you can swap out.

The basic qualities all Vanguards have in common that are worth noting, are that it can go deep whereas most fighters are short range and cannot, and it turns or rotates slowly compared to short range fighters as well as slips through turns heavily. In comparison to the short range fighters it is not a dog-fighter.

These two qualities in mind, you want to build on the strengths and minimize the weaknesses, based upon the specific needs in a mission. So for example, one of the guys posting here in the forum noted some months ago, that by keeping his distance from other fighters he was able to minimize the impact of the Vanguard's relative lack of maneuverability, since real agility always affects dynamics most at closest range. That sounded like great advise to me. I would just point out too, there is very little intel available about how to target at great range. I have looked for vids of this especially in the Vanguard and there is near nothing posted. I have looked and looked and never seen a tutorial using the Zoom function.

So, I can't recommend using long range weapons so much as investigating the use of these weapons. Its worth noting the Vanguard can mount 5 Sledges (still conflicting info on what can be swapped into the nose mounts), that have the longest range of any gun short of a cap ship spinal mount.

I would very much like to see a Vanguard fighting from great distance, against both other fighters and against much larger ships. At great distance of course the thing to attempt is to hit from ranges your opponents can't reach. Sledges can fire out to 7km and the Omni XII's can fire out to 4km. I realize you can't get the Omni's yet but a pair of them on the nose is certainly my choice over the Behring 7, since they fly as fast as the Sledge's so will give nearly identical Pips, they have more than twice the range of the 7's and do much more damage.

IMHO, the real problem with the Vanguard is that CIG seems to have singled it out and restricted weapons load-outs compared to every other ship. What we ought to do is complain loudly they knock this off, for surely they are messing with the gameplay of every Vanguard fan.

 

[BUTUZ]

All you need to do is slap an M7a on the nose and you've got a killer. The pips are slightly off at medium range and above, but at short range, or in a straight line, or against a big ship - it does catastrophic damage.

 

[Warmasterchief]

I have mine also loaded up with the M7A, but I also put Tempest II's on the missile racks. Sure it takes time to get a lock, but it's well worth it when it lands a hit. I'm not a fan of the Ignite II's TBH. I didn't touch the turret guns since the pilot has no control over them (which is a shame and should be changed IMO).

 

[Grimm_Reaper]

Even with a M7A its overall DPS still seems low. It doesn't have survivability or sustainability for a fighter this size. Its Size 2 shields is woefully inadequate.

 

[Shadow Reaper]

Even with a M7A its overall DPS still seems low. It doesn't have survivability or sustainability for a fighter this size. Its Size 2 shields is woefully inadequate.

I have just recently heard the opposite complaint, that someone couldn't tear down the shields at all. Fact is they are due to be revamped as they are going with 6 instead of 4. Currently they have more shield and higher regeneration than any other fighter. Could be you need to just move more. You can't tank in something twice the size of a Hornet, despite that it has 3X the hull. It is just too large a target.

The current shield refresh rate is huge. The only S2 that comes close is the SECO and it is 6X the mass, so does not fit in fighters:

https://docs.google.com/spreadsheets/d/13LzkKzDOKIdrhwL5E2n2Co6THa74A2izxn8lykDuPAk/edit#gid=0

 

[Grimm_Reaper]

I'll try it out but so far most fighter tear it down and kill the engine and after it bye bye. Controlling it is tough after

 

[marcsand2]

There is some official CIG literature somewhere, where they liken the Vanguard to the P-38 because of the devastating inboard firepower mounted. It really is easier to target when looking down the barrels.

Another advantage of all guns concentrated in the nose is:

Clustering all the armament in the nose was unusual in U.S. aircraft, which typically used wing-mounted guns with trajectories set up to crisscross at one or more points in a convergence zone. Nose-mounted guns did not suffer from having their useful ranges limited by pattern convergence, meaning that good pilots could shoot much farther. A Lightning could reliably hit targets at any range up to 1,000 yd (910 m), whereas the wing guns of other fighters were optimized for a specific range.

one of the guys posting here in the forum noted some months ago, that by keeping his distance from other fighters he was able to minimize the impact of the Vanguard's relative lack of maneuverability, since real agility always affects dynamics most at closest range. That sounded like great advise to me.

Depends on what you call distance and close range ;). For me at a distance is 2000 - 1000. If you pass the target, then don't try to turn around to get a new aim but instead make distance again.

I would just point out too, there is very little intel available about how to target at great range. I have looked for vids of this especially in the Vanguard and there is near nothing posted. I have looked and looked and never seen a tutorial using the Zoom function.

Zoom is very easy, I have bound it to my left rudder pedal. From a distance you zoom in, get a proper aim and shoot. Never forget to zoom out at close range. Zoom enhances your medium range targeting, but makes it hard at close range to stay steady on target. I can recall numerous times where I always stayed zoomed in when fighting. Not good if you are flying in a asteroid field. Your situation awareness, radar, guns and ship stats also are out of view ;)

 

[marcsand2]

I'll try it out but so far most fighter tear it down and kill the engine and after it bye bye. Controlling it is tough after

That is a fact!!! when you loose one boom then your manoeuvrability is really crap. Try to use strafe and boost to get out of enemy fire. Did you use it in VS or PVP? During TEST Tournament I took on a Vanguard with a Super Hornet. The Vanguard was manoeuvrable enough to stay out of my fire long enough to get advantage of its fast shield recharge. I had a bugged rig so I had to use Panthers to land some hits, which couldn't penetrate the shield to tear down the Vanguard.

 

[marcsand2]

I have just recently heard the opposite complaint, that someone couldn't tear down the shields at all. Fact is they are due to be revamped as they are going with 6 instead of 4. Currently they have more shield and higher regeneration than any other fighter. Could be you need to just move more. You can't tank in something twice the size of a Hornet, despite that it has 3X the hull. It is just too large a target.

The current shield refresh rate is huge. The only S2 that comes close is the SECO and it is 6X the mass, so does not fit in fighters:

https://docs.google.com/spreadsheets/d/13LzkKzDOKIdrhwL5E2n2Co6THa74A2izxn8lykDuPAk/edit#gid=0

The solution against strong shields is ballistics ;)

 

[Shadow Reaper]

One of the other things to keep in mind with the Vanguards is they come with a relatively HUGE and hot power generator. If you choose relatively low power weapons like ballistic, you can look at very interesting combinations using stealth. If you can substitute something like the JUST Endurance from the Reliant, you can cut your heat and EM signature to about 1/10 what it would normally be. In general though, the Sabre and the Vanguard come with the top of the line military grade shields, reactors, coolers, and weapons, so you don't have to plan to swap components to get a very useful load-out.

If you can load Void armor, 2 Mantis and 5 Tarantulas aboard, you could slaughter big, slow ships like the StarG and Vanduul Harvester from 6.5km and they might never even see you. It is an amazing weapons platform.

 

[BUTUZ]

Also the ship is bugged when it comes to ramming/being rammed, often a ram will insta-kill or severerly damage you, whereas is does not in other ships.

I ususally transfer all power to shields, tank it out, it works a treat.

 

[Shadow Reaper]

Depends on what you call distance and close range ;).

I'm certainly open to developing a standard here. At present, based on the weapons that cannot reach middle or long range to get categories, I suggest 0-2.5km for short, 2.5-5km for medium and >5km for long, but as a pilot you might draw better distinctions. There are two very different issues here, tactics and weapon abilities, and even inside short range you could have more than one tactic. I would suggest 0-2.5km as short since almost all weapons will fire to 2km. Those without a least that range are very unpopular except for those who are jousting, which CIG is trying to eliminate from the game as this does not emulate real fighter combat. They slowed the ships down specifically to eliminate this style of fighting.

With these definitions, only Vanduul missiles fail to qualify as long range, although many UEE S1 missiles will track only to medium range.

Zoom is very easy, I have bound it to my left rudder pedal. From a distance you zoom in, get a proper aim and shoot. Never forget to zoom out at close range. Zoom enhances your medium range targeting, but makes it hard at close range to stay steady on target. I can recall numerous times where I always stayed zoomed in when fighting. Not good if you are flying in a asteroid field. Your situation awareness, radar, guns and ship stats also are out of view ;)

When hunting with a variable scope one habitually leaves it zoomed out all the way in case one suddenly finds something close, and for longer range targets one has more time to operate the zoom. It really is best to leave it off when you don't need it. I once took a bull elk at 120 yards and never bothered to move the zoom from 4X to 9X. You should only use it when you need it.

 

[marcsand2]

I'm certainly open to developing a standard here. At present, based on the weapons that cannot reach middle or long range to get categories, I suggest 0-2.5km for short, 2.5-5km for medium and >5km for long, but as a pilot you might draw better distinctions. There are two very different issues here, tactics and weapon abilities, and even inside short range you could have more than one tactic. I would suggest 0-2.5km as short since almost all weapons will fire to 2km. Those without a least that range are very unpopular except for those who are jousting, which CIG is trying to eliminate from the game as this does not emulate real fighter combat. They slowed the ships down specifically to eliminate this style of fighting.

With these definitions, only Vanduul missiles fail to qualify as long range, although many UEE S1 missiles will track only to medium range.

For me dogfight is short range. I don't use gatlings at 2.5 km, I use them at point blank, very effective and it consumes saves valuable ammo :D

When hunting with a variable scope one habitually leaves it zoomed out all the way in case one suddenly finds something close, and for longer range targets one has more time to operate the zoom. It really is best to leave it off when you don't need it. I once took a bull elk at 120 yards and never bothered to move the zoom from 4X to 9X. You should only use it when you need it.

Always handy when shooting, since I like to use strafe allot for evading when in firing distance, it is also harder for me to aim. It reduces my effectiveness on 1km and above, but it also keeps me alive longer. Very practical when choosing a light fighter as prefered fighter :cool: but also good when using a sluggish fighter like the Vanguard or Cutlass, it helps in keeping firing distance instead of going into close dogfight.

 

[Doggen]

I want to love this ship, had a lot of fun with it in 2.6 PTU.

M7A sounds like a small fart indeed so I prefer a C-788 "Combine" Ballistic Cannon on it atm.

 

[Shadow Reaper]

I'm currently using the following post to base my statistics on. If anyone has a better source please let me know.

Currently I am told the best source is this: http://starcitizen.team/

If you want to go all fixed, note the S5 "WAR Neutron Cannon". This is apparently a converted Vanduul Stinger Neutron Cannon. Expect it to overheat quickly, but it has weapon speed very close to the 4 nose lasers in the Vanguard, decent damage and excellent range.

For close range assaults I think you would be better with a pair of the BEHR S4 Ballistic cannons, since they do 3X the damage, all of which should bypass the shields, but they shoot slowly and are really for large targets only.

You might also consider a pair of S3 Pyros on the chin, since they should be able to shoot down incoming missiles and do great damage but only at short range. The Pyros you can leave on the swivel, which should offer real advantage against short range dog-fighters, so long as you can fly with a swivel gun in hand.

 

[Black Sunder]

I put 4 Size 3 missiles on my Vanguard and its sweet.