Single Seat PVP Ship Rating

[Shadow Reaper]

I think this is really good. After watching this guy's vids I can say he really is an ace pilot, able to get the most out of a ship. He hates the Vanguard and especially the Sentinel because it doesn't need to be flown by an ace to kill an ace. Ooops. Sorry for that.

Note that since this was done ships like the Razor and Sabre lost a shield and should go down a ranking. CIG needs to unfuck that. Someone please tell me why the Razor lost a shield and the M50 did not?

One of the things he doesn't note because he is focused on gunfighting, is the Gladius has 2 more missiles than the Arrow (in addition to the extra shield). Military planners would consider those two missiles important. This in mind the Gladius has an even larger gap between itself and the others. Planners can expect the Gladius to make a stealth surprise missile attack and with 4 launchers, instantly kill its first opponent. It can later create ideal conditions to kill a second opponent. This guy doesn't care about that because he is thinking of flying solo, but in a planned engagement, where you can count on your partner to give you a perfect missile shot, those missiles totally matter.

So for instance, two fighters flying together, if they yoyo or racetrack and scream head long at each other while one has an opponent chasing them, the other can lock missiles starting from stealth and in under one second fire from 2 km to kill the pursuer with 4 Dominators doing 30k damage, and there's not a thing an ace pilot can do about that. Dodge this, sucker. Teamwork matters and the Gladius should be the clear winner here. If pilots are setting each other up for missile shots, it's key the Gladius can make 4 quad S1 missile strikes for 23k each and again, there is nothing an ace can do when he doesn't know how to fight a team. Note too, with just one of its two shields active, the Gladius is significantly more stealthy than the Arrow. It is plainly the more capable fighter.

The Arrow has the distinct advantage that it can fit more of them in the same space. Probably 4 Arrows will fit inside the Liberator. Probably only 3 Gladius will fit inside.

Great analysis. I will own, with S2 shields currently nerfed, I'm not sure the Sentinel deserves the S rating. That sucks.

Catch this guy's vid on flying the Sentinel to learn how to get the most out of yours.

View: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=LGUNVMxhOFo

 

[maynard]

a general observation

if your ideas are testable, they're theorycrafting

if not, they're mental masturbation

we have more of the latter than we do of the former around here

 

[Vavrik]

we have more of the latter than we do of the former around here

^^ This!
But we also have quite a few players who have moved beyond theorycrafting, and put it into practice, some even every day.

 

[Richard Bong]

Well, for the ships I fly, I have to agree, for the most part, with the ranking
It shows what a mess CIG did with balance beginning with 3.14.
My Vanguard has a bitch of a time putting nose on target, but when it does look out.
My Blue has become pretty useles even against AI.
My Hawk is not a ship designed as a gun only dogfighting Light Fighter, and certainly not any good in atmosphere.
Let's hope this mess gets straightened out.

 

[Aramsolari]

Yeah no point theorycrafting. It's fun but kinda pointless since things change every patch and there isn't really much balancing going on.

For example a bunch of us were doing Jump Town and had the floor wiped on us by a single Talon flown by an excellent pilot with a PVP meta loadout.

It's all about the meta at the moment. No point ranking ships and what not since everything is subject to change.

 

[Shadow Reaper]

I think there is huge value added when someone who knows how to squeeze performance out of a ship shares what they believe are the strengths and weaknesses of that ship. I’d never have guessed the X-85 was ranked so high. Most of us have many ships we’ve never flown nor will, so having them ranked by someone who has should offer real value.

I thought Maynerd was complaining about my missile analysis, which he’s entitled to. In my defense I’ll just note “yoyo” and “racetrack” techniques and holding patterns are real world stuff. I didn’t make that up. If you watch military strategy, planning, and wargaming simulations online you’ll see they’re standard fair. Racetracks are used instead of circular station holding because they offer pairs of fighters defensive missile shots and have the plane flying orthogonal to thwart missiles most of the time. Holding patterns themselves are used as screens between approaching enemies and carrier groups.

This is all stuff we need to know for future battles because CIG has been completely clear that’s where we’re headed.

 

[Aramsolari]

I think there is huge value added when someone who knows how to squeeze performance out of a ship shares what they believe are the strengths and weaknesses of that ship. I’d never have guessed the X-85 was ranked so high. Most of us have many ships we’ve never flown nor will, so having them ranked by someone who has should offer real value.

I thought Maynerd was complaining about my missile analysis, which he’s entitled to. In my defense I’ll just note “yoyo” and “racetrack” techniques and holding patterns are real world stuff. I didn’t make that up. If you watch military strategy, planning, and wargaming simulations online you’ll see they’re standard fair. Racetracks are used instead of circular station holding because they offer pairs of fighters defensive missile shots and have the plane flying orthogonal to thwart missiles most of the time. Holding patterns themselves are used as screens between approaching enemies and carrier groups.

This is all stuff we need to know for future battles because CIG has been completely clear that’s where we’re headed.

All great and all but the game currently doesn't afford us enough situational awareness and formation maintaining tools to pull off some of those real life techniques and tactics you're talking about.

Currently none of that matters.

What matters unfortunately is stuff like meta, pip/lag abusing, and individual piloting skills. The state of the servers and stuff like your ping/rig matters too of course.

Fighter combat at the moment is a PITA at the moment. Go ask Reload, Marcsand2, and the other boys fighting above Jump Town a couple of hours ago. It's a messy slough. I'm still salty about that one individual Talon we couldn't touch even though we were all 'working as a team'.

 

[Shadow Reaper]

Why were you unable to take the Talon? Was that old meta lagging thing?

 

[Aramsolari]

Why were you unable to take the Talon? Was that old meta lagging thing?

Gotta be there to see it. Good pilot combined with meta tricks and pip wiggle. Basically someone who maximized every single trick available to come up on top which he did.

 

[Shadow Reaper]

What is “pip wiggle” and are we talking in game tricks or metagaming?

Last I heard of an illegal meta trick was somehow breaking the connection for a moment and then back on to make the ship disappear and teleport, but I thought CIG was banning players for that. Was this guy metagaming? Does anyone have it on vid?

 

[Shadow Reaper]

I have tried several times now to watch Montoya’s vid of JT but it won’t play for me yet. Maybe too many people trying to watch at once.

 

[Aramsolari]

What is “pip wiggle” and are we talking in game tricks or metagaming?

Pip Wiggle.

I have tried several times now to watch Montoya’s vid of JT but it won’t play for me yet. Maybe too many people trying to watch at once.

Watching videos can only show so much. Gotta jump in and experience the frustration first hand lol.

 

[Vavrik]

All great and all but the game currently doesn't afford us enough situational awareness and formation maintaining tools to pull off some of those real life techniques and tactics you're talking about.

Currently none of that matters.

What matters unfortunately is stuff like meta, pip/lag abusing, and individual piloting skills. The state of the servers and stuff like your ping/rig matters too of course.

Fighter combat at the moment is a PITA at the moment. Go ask Reload, Marcsand2, and the other boys fighting above Jump Town a couple of hours ago. It's a messy slough. I'm still salty about that one individual Talon we couldn't touch even though we were all 'working as a team'.

What I see in group events is sometimes good, even occasionally real good, but there are a lot of pilots in TEST that need to go too a few combat flight training sessions. The best way to fly against a more experienced pilot flying alone is to work together. Something else someone could do is to find an old Air Force or Navy pilot, like one who flew fighters like the F86, F4, F5 and talk dogfighter tactics with them.

 

[Aramsolari]

What I see in group events is sometimes good, even occasionally real good, but there are a lot of pilots in TEST that need to go too a few combat flight training sessions. The best way to fly against a more experienced pilot flying alone is to work together. Something else someone could do is to find an old Air Force or Navy pilot, like one who flew fighters like the F86, F4, F5 and talk dogfighter tactics with them.

Yeah indeed. We gotta encourage folks to attend more CFTs. Hell I haven't in ages and it's obvious I've gotten rusty.

 

[NaffNaffBobFace]

mental masturbation

I thought someone shouted me over!

All my theorycrafting is waiting for is for the relevant mechanics or implementation to be put in the game. For example:

The TEST Weapons Research Lab TP-20,000 Unconventional Weapon System takes a centuries old leaf-blower + toilet-paper prank and brings it in line with the defensive needs of enterprising TESTies of the 2950's.

What's needed to get a Toiletpaper gun in game:
- Cloth physics which can make the paper roll react and flow and fly in reaction to wind as it does in reality: This is already in game.
- Directional wind/thrust force which the cloth physics can react to: This is already in game.
- Tractor Beam tech to pull objects such as toilet paper in places of zero atmosphere where a blower would not function: This is already in game.

The only thing stopping the TP-20,000 from existing is how likely it is that a toilet paper prank gun will be implemented in a game such as SC. You could include irradiated bum-wad to give the thing an actual offensive as well as vision obscuring defensive quality, with the roll wrapping around the target making it hard to remove and giving a damage over time effect... rad damage is planned but not in game yet so can't theorycraft too hard on the weaponization of the concept yet but otherwise everything is there ready and waiting to be put in to one glorious piece of equipment.

 

[Richard Bong]

And just to be complete:

1. Never chase meta with cash.
2. While I believe the list, in my personal experience, is relatively accurate, it is just a snapshot of the situation in 3.15 and may or may not be the intent or final state of the flight combat changes begun in 3.14.

 

[Shadow Reaper]

Pip Wiggle.

Wow. That sucks. Are players recording and reporting this to get players banned? Seems the only fix.

 

[KuruptU4Fun]

Yeah indeed. We gotta encourage folks to attend more CFTs. Hell I haven't in ages and it's obvious I've gotten rusty.

I'd love to, but the current date/ time arrangement prevents me from doing so. Is there a second one in the late afternoon, early evening?

 

[BUTUZ]

I will make more effort to attend Europe friendly CFTs.

By the will of Montoya it shall be done!

 

[Aramsolari]

Wow. That sucks. Are players recording and reporting this to get players banned? Seems the only fix.

Nah man. It's not an external cheat. Just abusing of the game's desyncing plus executed by a genuinely good pilot in a 'meta' ship.