So I went on spectrum, and read so much anger towards the newly released cutty blue, but...

atpbx · Jun 1, 2020

The Cutlass series is not a competitor to the Freelancer series and thats what gets people all angsty.

The Cutlass range is a cheap space utility vehicle, like a pick up truck, and a Freelancer is a dedicated cargo vessel, its like comparing a Hilux to a Sprinter.

The problem with the blue is that apart from being faster and the cells, its got none of the upgrades over the black from the concept, and its also increased in price by $25 which puts it up right up against the MIS if you are combat orientated and the MIS just wipes the Blues face in that respect.

The main thing I was hoping for with the blue was that CIG had got off their arse and fixed the pilot seat so your avatars head wasnt being forced 45 degrees forward so it had a face full of MFDs, but they havent bothered so even if the Blue had all features from the concept it would still be a dissapointment.

Montoya · Jun 1, 2020

Its difficult for most people to get a grasp on the true function of the ship unless you sat in the meeting with the design team and heard the reasoning for everything.

There are always balances passes, we can expect some tweaks to be made once the full game loop is out. Until that time there is really not much I can accurately criticize about.

I would love for every ship to be the fastest or more powerful, but there needs to be some downside somewhere.

Phil · Jun 1, 2020

I think also many people only look at ships and their functions as a 1vs1 situation, I really think this is why people look at it as underpowered, but like the Mantis, this ship is unique and you have to take that into factor, when the Mantis came out everyone was like, that's stupid because it cant kill anything it pulls out of QT and the argument is, if you put that type of function on a more powerful ship the ship then becomes overpowered. Like the QT dampener its a very powerful tool, to prevent a ship from essentially running away if you make the that ship to powerful it then becomes over powered, its a tough balance when you add unique tools into a 1vs1. I am sure there will be more tweaking and it will get better but I wouldn't want it to get to powerful because it wouldn't be fair in some situations.

Fastball · Jun 1, 2020

Montoya said:
Its difficult for most people to get a grasp on the true function of the ship unless you sat in the meeting with the design team and heard the reasoning for everything.

There are always balances passes, we can expect some tweaks to be made once the full game loop is out. Until that time there is really not much I can accurately criticize about.

I would love for every ship to be the fastest or more powerful, but there needs to be some downside somewhere.

Unless marketing gets involved and the ship can "punch above its weight class" like no other :P

Mich Angel · Jun 1, 2020

Zadig said:
Honestly I understand why people can feel under-served as of now, yet I don't see why some are so upset about the blue... Here are the main issues people discuss, and, opened for suggestions, my genuine take on it:

- the rounded cockpit ... is as we expected, strut-less, even if the pilot position is not adjusted later it is so refreshing to see outside properly, and the many MFDs might get handy if/when we're monitoring all systems solo.
- the colour ... is blue, yes, but we won't agree on what's best shade of blue, since we will be able to apply paints, does this matter?
- the lights ... can be turned on and off. As for me, I see a fun button to make the pew pew flashy, it's Christmas times all year long now.
- the engines ... are noticeably bigger, and here the bigger also means the faster, so that's nice, ain't it? And - oh my oh my, that roar.
- no additional shield... with the current MISC counterparts flying around that's a bummer I agree, but if, within the cutlass range, only the blue can equip military components, or simply come stock with better ones than the black, that's still a consolation price. Also, as larger and/or more expensive ships such as the constellation/mercury/vanguards have two already two shields who knows if, for the sake of balancing, the smaller freelancer won't be losing his second shield in the future anyway?
- the armor ... is not in game yet, a boost of hull hp in a later patch could fix that for the time being.
- the firepower... is still 4 S3 hardpoints with no remote turret. I'm not a fan of manned turrets on small ships (to say the least), but fixed guns will eventually get a balance pass, and when turrets can finally be slaved to the pilot, that's also 2 more guns to our triggers, which is quite decent.
- (too) many cells... but if 90% of the verse are NPCs, it shouldn't be such a trouble to pack and bag the corpses, otherwise incapacitated, and collect at once many bounties, also the ones that require a proof of kill. Any info clarifying if we might be able to strip (even half of) the cells?
- the quantum dampener ... is a cool addition, surely the range would need some adjusting but that's a first iteration, besides this doesn't use the utility slot for the tractor beam, which is going to be useful to fish said corpses. do you see a cash grab or a genuine addition to the BH role?
- the cargo space ... is limited yes, but having 12SCUs seems quite enough for supplies, and somehow park a bike in the cargo area. How about a titan suit? should be smaller than a bike and really useful for aggressive bounty hunters.

Okay a non-stock cutlass blue may not be able to go toe to toe with stronger combat focused ships - pilot skills being held equal, but is it its role? Most of the negative feelings here seem to me to be only short comings right now, and more advanced bounty hunting mechanics will be experimented with 3.10. What do you fellow testies think?

Personally I'm not sure how much of the above would justify the large price difference with a black though, and yet overall the blue retains the advantages of a maneuverable platform.. All in all, so far I'm already enjoying basic bounty elimination in the blue. Hopefully I can then beam the live baddies Kirby style into the cargo hold. While on the ground, I'd happily see myself jumping in a titan to hunt a pack of NPCs panicking at the sound of both my evil laugh and thunder gun... <sighs> happy virtual times :)

Well I think I almost agree with you on all points... but then it's reddit.. here's my take on that place...

And why even discuss something that is not even finished goes beyond my logic, just a waste of time...
But that is what happen when those who do don't understand it's not a finished released game not even in Beta yet...
Peps like that need to step back and take a vacation from their computers IMO

CHEERS!

Montoya · Jun 1, 2020

Fastball said:
Unless marketing gets involved and the ship can "punch above its weight class" like no other :P

Ill take two please.

NaffNaffBobFace · Jun 1, 2020

It's like the Origin 350R.

A ship that is as expensive than the 300i and the 325a put combined held such promise at it's inception. There were dreams of it being the "Super 300" as the Super Hornet was the best version of the F7c, dreams that it would have the best parts of the 300 series all in one ship, the cargo of the 300, the range of the 315, the armour and weapons of the 325a and the fastest ship in the game engines of the 350...

But things changed, more ships came out which moved the 300 out of the natural speedy alter ego for the Hornet tank, the Herald took it's afterburner speedster title, it lost its place in the 'Verse and some people were disappointed for a while and some people were angry for a while and then that was that.

Those who melted, did, those who didn't, didn't, and there are a few weirdos out there like me who even put some upgrades on their 350R when the option came along to, even though they missed the old ship, they tried to make the rework work for them.

The Blue, like the reworked 350, is an okay ship, but it wasn't what we dreamed of. There has been a whole lotta waiting and a whole lotta dreaming and what reality delivers isn't always what the dream held, especially if it's one that has been burning in the hearts of those who longed for it for so many years.

That's the problem SC has with these ships - it's not that they are not nice, it's not that they are not capable, it's that each and every single backer has their own slightly different view of what that ship was going to be, and at the extremes you have some very disappointed people.

atpbx · Jun 1, 2020

I think as well the delay in delivering ships doesnt help, there isnt really any reason the blue couldnt have been released in 3.0 as its 2 minor hull tweaks and some non functioning props. As it is the backers have had two years to use the Black and form an idea of what a cutlass $50 better would look like and unfortunately their idea is it should have turned out a lot better than this.

Sirus7264 · Jun 1, 2020

Montoya said:
Its difficult for most people to get a grasp on the true function of the ship unless you sat in the meeting with the design team and heard the reasoning for everything.

There are always balances passes, we can expect some tweaks to be made once the full game loop is out. Until that time there is really not much I can accurately criticize about.

I would love for every ship to be the fastest or more powerful, but there needs to be some downside somewhere.

time for people to go riot and loot CIG now sounds about right?

AntiSqueaker · Jun 2, 2020

This is going to be a wall of text. Sorry not sorry.

So, for reference the Cutlass was my first ever ship I got. Kickstarter baby, Digital Pirate Pack.

There is a ton of salt around this ship, and dare I say for good reasons.

Initially the Cutlass was pitched and with tons of lore pieces and direct developer quotes as being very nimble. "The Cutlass is a 2 person fighter with unparalleled manueverability, not so much focused on cargo" per Chris Roberts himself. It's important to note that at this point the Cutlass about about ~33% smaller than its current size. It was squarely in between the Hornet (pure combat) and Freelancer (freighter with ample self-defense). It was a fighter yes, but had the awkward cargo hold making it a bigger target than comparable fighter, but still plenty mean enough to disable and board cargo vessels to raid their holds.

They also released a commercial for the Cutlass, which many took to be further evidence to support it being a relatively underarmored ship, but with a solid weapons loadout and phenomenal handling to make up for it. Twin thrusters, some big side thrusters that could also gimbal

So when it was finally released in Arena Commander 1.0 and was.....frankly fucking terrible. The model was bad, the flight model was horrendous. CIG had no idea how to handle thrusters that could rotate so the Cutlass was super slidey and had tons of oversteer as the thrusters just whipped around like a pair of ballerinas. The Cutlass was also severely underpowered- literally. Compared to the main engines on other ships, the Cutlass engines weighed approximately 4x as much as comparable engines the Hornet had, for less than half the thrust output.

The then current) 2014 Red and Blue hangar models were hilariously sloppy and roughshod. It turns out CIG outsourced the modeling for the Red and Blue specifically

Needless to say people were not happy.

So Ben Lesnick, who at the time was the "Ship Czar" of CIG, came by the forums and promised a "priority rework" by Foundry 42 was implemented in very late 2014.

16 months pass with no official word beyond "it'll be done when it's done".

Then almost a year and a half later, we get the first image of concept art of the new Cutlass. CIG admitted that this was recently completed concept art, which means the "priority rework" had sat on the backburner for over a year with no updated information being passed along.

Lo and behold the new Cutlass looks absolutely phenomenal, however that was the deathblow for anyone who was still hoping for a nimble Cutlass as the NuCutlass was now basically the same dimensions as the Freelancer. It got another gun to compensate and was generally regarded as pretty solid as a light gunship/assault platform. Relying less on actual dogfighting and more on pointing in the direction of your enemies and holding down the trigger until things stop moving.

(CIG later designed the Buccaneer as an "apology" for the miscommunication to replace the Cutlass as the "Pirate Fighter with Cargo" but then decided to scrap the cargo because they wanted to make it a pure fighter competitor to the Hornet, but that is another tale).

Then came the split between shield sizes and shield quantities. See the Cutlass 1.0 originally had a Size 4 Shield (equal in size to the time as the Hornet). The Blue bumped that up to a Size 5 shield, equal in size to the Freelancer. Connie had a Size 6 for reference. Remember this is when the Cutlass was about a third smaller than it was previously. The Cutlass Blue however, boasted a Size 5 shield generator, the largest reason for its 50% price jump compared to the Black. Many thought it would be a very obvious thing that the Blue would get a second shield generator to match the Freelancer (and Mole....and Mercury....and Apollo....) since it was a direct equivalent upgrade, and fit the Blue's role as a "double tough Cutlass" for policing and bounty hunting to a T.

So when the Blue came out last week, a lot of people were surprised. Many Cutlass owners feel already that if every other medium ship in the game, including dedicated non-combat vessels like the Mole, gets 2x Medium generators then all the Cutlasses, as combat vessel hybrids should. However it was partially consoled by the fact that the Blue would assuredly have it, right?

Right?

It also doesn't help that the new Ship Director John Crewe is on the record (at some livestream) saying Drake is his least favorite manufacturer, which doesn't help to wash off any of the salt at all.

Radegast74 · Jun 2, 2020

AntiSqueaker said:
<snip>

But, does it punch above its weight class?

GarikDuvall · Jun 2, 2020

AntiSqueaker said:
<wall of text>

So usually I skip text walls cause I don't have the attention span for them, but that contained a lot of good back story!

So from the get go (and maybe this was me misunderstanding the concepts), but I though it odd that the Blue would be better at combat than the Black... which was supposed to be the combat/pirate vessel. Sure Blue could have better speed (as an interdiction ship), the cells, and now the dampener (sure, why not) which would give it enough difference from the base model. But just seems to me that it's now the most combat focused and the Black is getting the shaft a bit (sure she's cheaper but... should it be? And by as much as it is)?

As far as the Blue not having a second shield generator, I think that's fair, as even a 'combat Drake' is still a somewhat "barebones, cost-cutting, minimally engineered" ship [as far as lore goes anyways]. The trade off here is that now it'll have better armor than the Black, so that seems like it perhaps matches it more with the Freelancers etc as it can take more hits once rounds get past it's shielding?

I dunno, just my thoughts. I have a Cutty, but it's of course the Red, as I'll be doing rescue and such. So admittedly I'm not as versed in combat as most of you.

NaffNaffBobFace · Jun 2, 2020

Part of me feels the original "Cutlass Plus" vision for the Blue was pulled back with Balance in mind as it now has that Dampener that is needed for a Police ride, but which no one asked for and I'm not sure not 100% of the backers are really interested in without some kind of show-and-tell as to how useful it's potentially going to be.

Imagine a lone Catapillar and a lone Blue, the Cat can't out pace the Blue, the Blue can keep it from running to Quantum, the Cat can't really outfight it and the Blue can just chip away at the cargo vessel until it wins... unless they balance any ship so big it can't outrun a Blue to simply out-tank it... but then that turns the combat oriented version from Cutlass to Gutless and the other versions being pegged well below that, too. If the balance by making the dampeners effect time-limited, what's the point in having it?

I think they have a buncha work to do on this crate yet. In fairness, it's teir zero for this flyable and it's refreshing to see a ship come in not overpowered and then receive the Nerf Bat over and over again, however perhaps that could have been done with a ship line with less of a... reputation...

Talonsbane · Jun 2, 2020

Here's my pair of pennies on the Blue. Going into the decision to get the upgrade from the Black to the Blue, I looked at several things to see what made potentially more sense. If you take an empty Black & a Blue without any prisoners, then gave them the same components to level that playing field, I expect the Blue to be less agile, fast & maneuverable due to the weight of the pods, the weight of the QD & the weight of the additional armor that it's supposed to have when the game is feature complete. However, at that time, if you look at them in their base components, those of the Blue should at least boost it to rival an empty Black so that its QD can keep it from Q Jumping away as they weapons cripple the Black to a point that they can take them down. The added armor should allow the Blue to sustain more damage & survive, but not as much as if it was a military tanking ship.

In all honesty, I don't expect the Blue to be a sort of lone wolf style bounty hunting ship that the Hawk is supposed to be. I think that in time we'll find them in the Verse with the Advocacy in a team consisting of a Mantis, Blue, Terrapin & at least a few EMP ships. The Mantis will drop them out of Quantum for inspection & then with the Blue they will keep them from jumping again before they are finished. Should the targets not comply, the EMP ships will nerf their systems until the situation is sorted out. If there are any wanted individuals that require arrests, then the Blue holds them for the team to deposit when its full. Then the commissions get split. This is of course my speculation.

Mich Angel · Jun 2, 2020

Why people whine and get but-hurt cause a released ship don't look or is as concept idea or change up the road, goes beyond my understanding.

This text is all over the place....!!
----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
DISCLAIMER: These are our current vehicle specifications. Some of this may change during the 3D design and game balancing process.

DISCLAIMER: These are our current vehicle specifications. Some of this may change during the 3D design and game balancing process.
----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

And this is the last you see before approving your purchase of anything in web-store

----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

You are making a crowdfunding pledge, not a purchase!!
Star Citizen is funded through a community crowdfunding effort. Your “Pledge Funds” for in-game items such as ships or weapons will be spent on the ongoing development of the game.
Welcome to Open Development!
Star Citizen’s Alpha releases include work-in-progress and features that have bugs which will be improved in future updates [See Roadmap]. Your pledge will grant you continued access to this process. We encourage community feedback but the decisions must ultimately rest with the developer.
All Pledges are final!
For these reasons, you cannot get your Pledge Funds back even if a particular in-game item takes longer to become available, contains bugs, or undergoes design changes.

By placing your order, you acknowledge that you have read, understood and accepted the above and our further Terms of Service, in particular, section Pledges.

I agree

----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

If people chose to ignore reading that, that's on them and it don't give them any right to bitch about changes.

Give constructive change suggestions and critique sure but whine like a kid that don't get the ice-cream he was expecting is on you own head for expecting more than there is.

If one put a thing on a pedestal in once mind ( King throne ) and have high expectation you're being a fool and that is your own doing, blame yourself.

Blaming a game in development and for how a concept was or is not once released as in for crushing your high expectation and pre-fantasy how it would be is being silly and a fool.

And if one thing change that been said or removed, hey wake up smell the coffee, they are humans they are allowed to make mistakes and game is in development.

If you can't handle it, get of your computer and get a vacation from gaming is my advice go do something else is my answer to all whining babies.

----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Only problem I see with any ship or vehicle in the game is they are not 100% finished, but that is not a problem cause they will be.

So if a ship bother me I got a couple choices I can leave it be and use something else or I can melt it and buy something else or I can....

... or I can give some constructive changes or critique on what I don't like and what I like, which of cause will be bias since it's my own wish how it be.

You have the freedom do be and chose not to, but if you do then you accept the terms it's that simple..

If that is hard to understand it's on your own person and not the developments fault to fix your high expectation that got broken.

Patience doesn't always reward you but it does give you a piece of mind! ( Just saying )

CHEERS!

Talonsbane · Jun 2, 2020

I wasn't griping, complaining nor whining. I gave my 2 cents based on what seemed reasonable while being accepting & hopeful.

Mich Angel · Jun 2, 2020

Talonsbane said:
I wasn't griping, complaining nor whining. I gave my 2 cents based on what seemed reasonable while being accepting & hopeful.

Yeah that's kinda what I do if and when something is off.. but being hopeful can back fire ha ha ha... but I know that ha ha

So I tend not to do any of it and just focus on the things that are broken or buggy, report them and trust them to get it all to a good balanced fun ship/vehicle/game...
etc. etc..

CHEERS!

Talonsbane · Jun 2, 2020

Mich Angel said:
Yeah that's kinda what I do if and when something is off.. but being hopeful can back fire ha ha ha... but I know that ha ha
So I tend not to do any of it and just focus on the things that are broken or buggy, report them and trust them to get it all to a good balanced fun ship/vehicle/game...
etc. etc..

CHEERS!

Good plan my friend.

So I went on spectrum, and read so much anger towards the newly released cutty blue, but...

Space Marshal

Space Marshal

Administrator

Space Marshal

Admiral

Space Marshal

Administrator

Space Marshal

Space Marshal

Space Marshal

Space Marshal

Space Marshal

Space Marshal

Space Marshal

Space Marshal

Space Marshal

Space Marshal

Space Marshal

Space Marshal

Space Marshal