Star Citizen Fatigue, featuring Richard Bong :D

Lorddarthvik

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Ah, misrepresenting valid concerns as simply fatigue for that sweet sweet paycheck from CiG! Well done Glorious Leader, much efficiency, very stonks!
(they should actually pay you by this point lol)

The difference with some of us, compared to the people like Salty is that we are Coming back from a 3+month break and finding that things didn't improve, but instead regressed into another refactoring/re-inventing stage. They keep "iterating" on things that were never complete, so no one can know if those would have been any good.
In short we see no meaningful progress.
That is far from the overdose/fatigue. There's only so long one is willing to wait for seemingly nothing.

That said I'm gonna go and try to play for the second time in 5 months. See if I get fatigued in less then an hour again.

edit an hour later: yeah, I chose the only free time I have to spend with SC. Which ofc is the exact same time as they are having maintenance so I can't play. Friday peak EU hours. Well done CiG.
 
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Richard Bong

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ROFLMAO!

Thanks fearless leader.

You can't measure progress unless you have an end state defined. CIG has done work, that is indisputable. But no measurable progress. If you go 5 miles on a treadmill every day, it is good for your health, but if your goal is to get to the store 5 miles away, the treadmill isn't getting you there.

As far as done, the problem isn't that the game isn't done (which is a different problem) but that nothing, not even one of the important foundational things is complete. Not even the little things like the list of components a ship has is done.
 

CosmicTrader

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Please stop promoting this A'Hole..
OMG - You stated that you are more like him now!!!!!!!
This is of great concern to Cosmic......I must think on this statement in depth....A very sad day for CosmicTrader to hear this!

Many backers work very hard to help the 800+ talented and dedicated DEVs at CIG...But you, time after time, promote Bitching A'Holes like these guys.
As for Richard Bong, since he knows better than CR & 800+ DEVS, where is his game? At least D. Smart attempted to make a game.
 
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Richard Bong

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Please stop promoting this A'Hole..
OMG - You stated that you are more like him now!!!!!!!
This is of great concern to Cosmic......I must think on this statement in depth....A very sad day for CosmicTrader to hear this!

Many backers work very hard to help the 800+ talented and dedicated DEVs at CIG...But you, time after time, promote Bitching A'Holes like these guys.
As for Richard Bong, since he knows better than CR & 800+ DEVS, where is his game? At least D. Smart attempted to make a game.
I have neither the time nor the money. Give me 250 million and I'll have it out in 5 years or less (Which would beat CIG to market.) without needing more money before release.
 

Ayeteeone

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I have neither the time nor the money. Give me 250 million and I'll have it out in 5 years or less (Which would beat CIG to market.) without needing more money before release.
I've been watching your thread, and to some degree empathizing... even as an Evocati member we have to breath once in a while, and there is usually a reluctance to fall back to play in the Live patch after working with the new.

But your statement here is just arrogant. Don't know what else you got going on in life but it's bleeding through into what should be a pastime, not a grudge.

Do I believe you could accomplish this? Don't have an opinion, and mine would be irrelevant anyway. Lots of cheap, hashed together shit out there in the game industry that didn't get the time or thought it needed to mature into an enjoyable experience; plenty of companies going the 'bang it out' route.

Legitimately, CR is going to do it the way he is going to do it. If he were easily influenced by sideline commentary, this project would not have happened.

As an aside, SaltEMikey got dropped from my playlist back when he was still Twerking for dollars. The hate-for-pay business model is fail.
 
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Richard Bong

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I've been watching your thread, and to some degree empathizing... even as an Evocati member we have to breath once in a while, and there is usually a reluctance to fall back to play in the Live patch after working with the new.

But your statement here is just arrogant. Don't know what else you got going on in life but it's bleeding through into what should be a pastime, not a grudge.

Do I believe you could accomplish this? Don't have an opinion, and mine would be irrelevant anyway. Lots of cheap, hashed together shit out there in the game industry that didn't get the time or thought it needed to mature into an enjoyable experience; plenty of companies going the 'bang it out' route.

Legitimately, CR is going to do it the way he is going to do it. If he were easily influenced by sideline commentary, this project would not have happened.

As an aside, SaltEMikey got dropped from my playlist back when he was still Twerking for dollars. The hate-for-pay business model is fail.
I was called an impolite name and told that if I am so knowledgeable I should have a game out. That response was strictly to that.

With my experience in software development and other projects I have lead, or been part of, I have seen the difference between what happens to a project with a fluid timeline and with a hard deadline. With no deadline and no accountability, nothing gets finished. With a hard deadline, that you are accountable to, amazing things happen.
 
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Sirus7264

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i guess i'll have to watch this on my phone later (Youtube is blocked at work) seems to be a lot of drama stirring here and im not even sure to who.
 

Thalstan

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One of the biggest problems with CR, and one of his best traits is that he is a perfectionist. He wants everything done perfectly and is not unwilling to blow everything he has already done up so that he can get to a better state of the game.

The problem with that is that everything can always get better, and perfect is the enemy of good.

I have a relative who is an absolute perfectionist. He is very good at what he does, yet he has yet to hold a job for any length of time because he can't get "done" with a project. When he was in school/university, he never finished a project on time. Not once. He was given extension opportunities other kids were not because he had talent, but I wonder if those teachers did him a dis-service. I honestly believe that if a teacher or two had failed him because he did not turn in his project on time, he would have started to understand the importance of deadlines. Unfortunately, he is now learning that the hard way and it could have a serious impact on his future. The corporate world is not academia. They will only accept perfection if it comes in on time and on-budget. Blow your deadlines time and again, blow your budget time and again, and come back to them with half completed plans because you keep ripping them up and starting over and they will find someone with less talent and hire them because they can produce something that works in the time frame needed and the budget provided.
 

Bambooza

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One of the biggest problems with CR, and one of his best traits is that he is a perfectionist. He wants everything done perfectly and is not unwilling to blow everything he has already done up so that he can get to a better state of the game.

The problem with that is that everything can always get better, and perfect is the enemy of good.

I have a relative who is an absolute perfectionist. He is very good at what he does, yet he has yet to hold a job for any length of time because he can't get "done" with a project. When he was in school/university, he never finished a project on time. Not once. He was given extension opportunities other kids were not because he had talent, but I wonder if those teachers did him a dis-service. I honestly believe that if a teacher or two had failed him because he did not turn in his project on time, he would have started to understand the importance of deadlines. Unfortunately, he is now learning that the hard way and it could have a serious impact on his future. The corporate world is not academia. They will only accept perfection if it comes in on time and on-budget. Blow your deadlines time and again, blow your budget time and again, and come back to them with half completed plans because you keep ripping them up and starting over and they will find someone with less talent and hire them because they can produce something that works in the time frame needed and the budget provided.
Nicely said. It was my hope going in that Chris while taking a long time and iterating over the same item multiple times would work well in this environment as it does allow and encourage reworking. Like mining where we got version zero and is been reworked and improved upon since. What has me more concerned is the holding back of features until they are in a more done state as you said it's all to easy to get to a point where it's never done good enough and so nothing is released.
 
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Shadow Reaper

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With my experience in software development and other projects I have lead, or been part of, I have seen the difference between what happens to a project with a fluid timeline and with a hard deadline. With no deadline and no accountability, nothing gets finished. With a hard deadline, that you are accountable to, amazing things happen.
When this subject comes up I always recommend people read Skunkworks by Ben Rich. In it Ben details how his boss Kelly Johnson, at the famous Lockheed Martin group; managed to deliver the U2 spy plane, the SR-71 Blackbird and the F-117 all on time and under budget. It was in part that he sat all his engineers down together at the same table and worked with them every hour of every day they designed those planes. Everyone was accountable to everyone else as they did their calculations with slide rules.

Todays engineers aren't like this at all. Not 1 in 1,000 engineers under the age of 30 could manage a single week at work those years ago. The changes in each generation have consequences. I am not saying everyone at CIG is ______________, and _______________, and _______________; but fill 'em in for yourself. We all know what the changes are.
 

Richard Bong

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When this subject comes up I always recommend people read Skunkworks by Ben Rich. In it Ben details how his boss Kelly Johnson, at the famous Lockheed Martin group; managed to deliver the U2 spy plane, the SR-71 Blackbird and the F-117 all on time and under budget. It was in part that he sat all his engineers down together at the same table and worked with them every hour of every day they designed those planes. Everyone was accountable to everyone else as they did their calculations with slide rules.

Todays engineers aren't like this at all. Not 1 in 1,000 engineers under the age of 30 could manage a single week at work those years ago. The changes in each generation have consequences. I am not saying everyone at CIG is ______________, and _______________, and _______________; but fill 'em in for yourself. We all know what the changes are.
Lockheed also brought in the C-141 upgrade under time and under budget.
The C-5, on the otherhand, due to a moving target of what the end goal was, had cost overruns that were legendary.
 

Richard Bong

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The end state has been defined, building the PU using server meshing as the core. Plausible, realistic and simple.
So then what is the number of simultaneous players on a "shard?"
What is the size of a shard?
How is a shard to be measured?
(And that's just server meshing.)

Non-specific, amorphous statements is not defining an end state by which you can measure progress.
 

KuruptU4Fun

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So then what is the number of simultaneous players on a "shard?"
What is the size of a shard?
How is a shard to be measured?
(And that's just server meshing.)

Non-specific, amorphous statements is not defining an end state by which you can measure progress.
Doesn't matter, since those aren't end goals and add only serve to the end state but don't wholly define it.

They're simply development processes (behind the scenes) that build towards the goal. Whether they're only 500 people in a shard or 50,000 is a moot point. Since PES allows for the tech to take something from a simulated state to a replicative state and back as needed. It's like taking the minimal amount of people needed to actually be in a stadium to play a football game. You need the players, coaches, referees and medical staff on site. Everything else can be brought in and used remotely for the people in the stadium. Camera operators and commentators being some of the easiest examples of what's important to televise the game but don't have to be on site to do it.

It doesn't matter HOW it's done, the end result is that the game is shown for those who want to see it.
 
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