To Thrust(master) or not to Thrust, that is the question..

[Starscribe]

Tempted to spend a little silly money getting these:

Anyone able to give me a thumbs up or down based on their experience of the Thrustmaster Warthog/throttle. HOTAS views, folks?

Cheers in advance.

 

[Raven_King]

Hi @Starscribe, TL;DR, don't. At least, I did, and I wouldn't recommend it for SC.

I have a Warthog HOTAS and it’s a nice enough piece of kit, which I enjoyed using for ED and flight sims a few years ago. It's very heavy and solid and well made, but it is EXPENSIVE, and it really isn’t optimal for flying a space sim.

The stick doesn't have a twist axis. The throttles are capable of moving separately to control two engines - Star Citizen only really has the concept of one engine. There are enough buttons and a little scrolly-mouse-ball thingy on the throttle to get a strafe-left--and-right and strafe-up-and-down axis mapped, but it's not very easy to use and is really quite imprecise. You could get pedals to help with this somewhat, but good ones (like the MFG Crosswinds I have, and which are now gathering dust) are expensive. There are lots of buttons on the throttle that you can't reach without taking your hand off the throttle, making them less than convenient in a dogfight. And the Thrustmaster T.A.R.G.E.T. software is so bad as to be practically unusable, unless you're prepared to invest a LOT of time learning how to use it and not break it.

What you want is HOSAS - hands on stick and stick, in other words, two joysticks, ideally both with a twist axis. What you also want is someone else to sort out a set of mappings for you, as there are a LOT of controls in Star Citizen, and it is a very considerable investment in effort and time (which you would presumably rather spend pew-pewing or whatever is fun for you) to map all the controls to well-chosen buttons you can reach while in a dogfight.

I've tried a few combinations (and all but the last pair of sticks are now gathering dust):

• Thrustmaster T-16000M is hands-down the best entry level pair of sticks. Don't worry about buying the Duo set - just get two singles, it's exactly the same. You can swap the side buttons on the stick around, so the left and right sticks are mirror images of each other, one for each hand, and the base buttons are symmetrical anyway. I don't actually have these, I have...
• Thrustmaster TCA Sidestick Airbus Edition, which are almost the same as the T-16000Ms (different colour, one button is in a different place on the top of the stick). They're great, and equally cheap. A pair will cost much less than the Warthog does. You could be very happy with these for a long time, using r/BuzZz_Killer's bindings.
• VKB GladiatorNXT sticks come in left and right handed versions. They are more expensive than the two Thrustmaster models above, but have more buttons. I thought they were pretty good, but I ended up spending a lot of my 'play' time setting up button bindings and learning them. That was a drag. But I liked them all the same, until my next sticks arrived.
• Virpil Constellation Alphas, also in left and right handed versions. These are the ultimate sticks so far as I can tell, and I chose custom cams and springs too. But the absolute best thing about them is that r/BuzZz_Killer on Reddit maintains really excellent bindings for them (and the Thrustmasters above). You'll need JoyToKey (free or $7USD donation if you're feeling like you had value from it - I did), and a little bit of time to import and fix up the bindings (really not hard), and then they are AMAZING to fly with. Super expensive though, and a LONG lead time for me. Also import duty to the UK now that we're outside the EU. I can share those costs if anyone wants - quite predictable and simple to understand.

Direct link to Buzzz Killer's bindings in his Dropbox folder here. But you'll probably want to check out his posts on reddit or YouTube for a bit of getting started help. It's not at all hard.

 

[BUTUZ]

Thrust first and ask questions later.

On a serious note, the warthog was never designed for space sims, which takes away from it's greatness for us. If your a flight sim guy then by all means get one and "put up" with it for star citizen, but if it's just SC your playing then get something else. Why not try 2 x T16000m as suggested - I wore my T16000m's out and couldn't get hold of more due to stock shortages so got two Logitech Extreme 3d pro. Not as good as the T16000m but good enough for now.

My mates got virpil and had a fair bit of trouble with it - he aint 100% happy and If I spent that much on a pair of joysticks i would want to be 100% happy.

Overall 2 x T16000 and a set of pedals is about the best you can get unless your super rich.

 

[Ploeperpengel]

Hi @Starscribe, TL;DR, don't. At least, I did, and I wouldn't recommend it for SC.

I have a Warthog HOTAS and it’s a nice enough piece of kit, which I enjoyed using for ED and flight sims a few years ago. It's very heavy and solid and well made, but it is EXPENSIVE, and it really isn’t optimal for flying a space sim.

The stick doesn't have a twist axis. The throttles are capable of moving separately to control two engines - Star Citizen only really has the concept of one engine. There are enough buttons and a little scrolly-mouse-ball thingy on the throttle to get a strafe-left--and-right and strafe-up-and-down axis mapped, but it's not very easy to use and is really quite imprecise. You could get pedals to help with this somewhat, but good ones (like the MFG Crosswinds I have, and which are now gathering dust) are expensive. There are lots of buttons on the throttle that you can't reach without taking your hand off the throttle, making them less than convenient in a dogfight. And the Thrustmaster T.A.R.G.E.T. software is so bad as to be practically unusable, unless you're prepared to invest a LOT of time learning how to use it and not break it.

What you want is HOSAS - hands on stick and stick, in other words, two joysticks, ideally both with a twist axis. What you also want is someone else to sort out a set of mappings for you, as there are a LOT of controls in Star Citizen, and it is a very considerable investment in effort and time (which you would presumably rather spend pew-pewing or whatever is fun for you) to map all the controls to well-chosen buttons you can reach while in a dogfight.

I've tried a few combinations (and all but the last pair of sticks are now gathering dust):

• Thrustmaster T-16000M is hands-down the best entry level pair of sticks. Don't worry about buying the Duo set - just get two singles, it's exactly the same. You can swap the side buttons on the stick around, so the left and right sticks are mirror images of each other, one for each hand, and the base buttons are symmetrical anyway. I don't actually have these, I have...
• Thrustmaster TCA Sidestick Airbus Edition, which are almost the same as the T-16000Ms (different colour, one button is in a different place on the top of the stick). They're great, and equally cheap. A pair will cost much less than the Warthog does. You could be very happy with these for a long time, using r/BuzZz_Killer's bindings.
• VKB GladiatorNXT sticks come in left and right handed versions. They are more expensive than the two Thrustmaster models above, but have more buttons. I thought they were pretty good, but I ended up spending a lot of my 'play' time setting up button bindings and learning them. That was a drag. But I liked them all the same, until my next sticks arrived.
• Virpil Constellation Alphas, also in left and right handed versions. These are the ultimate sticks so far as I can tell, and I chose custom cams and springs too. But the absolute best thing about them is that r/BuzZz_Killer on Reddit maintains really excellent bindings for them (and the Thrustmasters above). You'll need JoyToKey (free or $7USD donation if you're feeling like you had value from it - I did), and a little bit of time to import and fix up the bindings (really not hard), and then they are AMAZING to fly with. Super expensive though, and a LONG lead time for me. Also import duty to the UK now that we're outside the EU. I can share those costs if anyone wants - quite predictable and simple to understand.

Direct link to Buzzz Killer's bindings in his Dropbox folder here. But you'll probably want to check out his posts on reddit or YouTube for a bit of getting started help. It's not at all hard.

I'm sticking (har har) to my HOTAS right now but what you say is exactly true. I wouldn't buy a HOTAS for SC a second time. Virpil is hardly ever available but I learned to wait...

 

[Starscribe]

Hugely appreciate the replies!

 

[Deroth]

Anyone using the tabletop version of these? (VKB Gunfighter Mk.III ‘Space Combat Edition’):

VKB North America

We sell VKB Flight & Space Simulation Controllers for customers in the United States and Canada.

vkbcontrollers.com

 

[Dirtbag_Leader]

I'm going to go ahead and chime in here in favor of my Virpils also. Mind I upgraded from a Logitech X52 and thought that was actually a pretty darn good setup for the price. I haven't tried HOSAS yet but might down the road. Currently, I'm using the Constellation Alpha stick and the T50 throttle. The build quality is to die for and I also LOVE that all the calibration data and so on is saved on flash memory on the devices themselves so there's no intrusion from Windows that can dick things up. Finally though, I use the setup for SC, Elite, and MS Flight Simulator in rather equal measures. If you're *just* interested in flying in SC then it might be a bit much at least initially. Mind you I FULLY believe the game shouldn't even launch unless you have some sort of flight controls plugged in, but maybe I'm just elitist that way. At any rate, I believe that even a crappier lower-tier stick is better than sticking to M/Kb if that's all you can manage in the short term. It's still a HUGE bump in terms of immersion! FWIW I ordered my Virpil stuff pretty recently and while I had to wait in was only like a month or so, which I don't think is TOO terrible these days! Basically what I'm saying here is if you have the $ and interest, go Virpil over TM. VKB *might* be just great too, but I have no personal experience with their stuff.

 

[Dirtbag_Leader]

Direct link to Buzzz Killer's bindings in his Dropbox folder here.

Lol, thanks for that Raven, just checked it out and pleasantly surprised to find out how close my current mappings are to his! One thing I don't see him using though is that you can set different ranges for the two throttle axes. I have them 0-100% when linked for MSFS, but then -100-100% with zero in the center to cover both forward and reverse thrust for spacesims!

 

[marcsand2]

Stick and throttle are great, the gimbal isn't. I replaced my Warthog gimbals for WarBRD gimbals. The Warthog grips I kept. I preferred those above the Virpil grips, even if I had to modify one to get a real left hand grip. Imagine putting a rotary tool in a $200 grip... scary!!!

 

[Esctasy]

I've been using both stick and throttle for a few years now. Both are bolted to my chair so they aren't taking up any desk space. Works good for me, does everything I need. I abuse them often when playing SC, they are very durable. But I've never tried any other controllers so can't compare.

 

[Doggen]

I use the warthog as a right stick and I think its a bit too heavy for twitch gameplay. I will probably replace it with a VKB Gladiator at some point since im really enjoying the left version of it. Virpil Alphas are a bit overkill for me since I only play SC... sometimes... like 4 weeks a year :D

 

[CosmicTrader]

I use the Thrustmaster T Flight Hotas X
This is perfect for Star Citizen - unless you are a Top Gun fighter pilot.
(I am everything but......mining, trading, etc)( I do fight but not exclusively)
I have used this for 3 years and it is still 'like new'.
btw - The throttle and stick seperate

 

[Starscribe]

I use the Thrustmaster T Flight Hotas X
This is perfect for Star Citizen - unless you are a Top Gun fighter pilot.
(I am everything but......mining, trading, etc)( I do fight but not exclusively)
I have used this for 3 years and it is still 'like new'.
btw - The throttle and stick seperate

Thinking about it, I already have a Thrustmaster T.Flight Hotas 4 (joystick and throttle) for my old PS4 which would work here

 

[Thalstan]

I have a warthog and I am very much ok with it and would buy it again.

I use the second throttle for a mining throttle and it gives me precision like nothing else. No, it does not have a twist axis, but on the throttle, there is a thumb button that I have roll and right bound to. This makes it very easy to NOT have a pedal. Even though I do have pedals, I almost never use them.

yes, they are pricy
I think they are worth it. I even have a second throttle for a mining rig machine I have so that I can mine with 2 people. My main and a second box. It makes the MOLE VERY profitable.

 

[CosmicTrader]

Thinking about it, I already have a Thrustmaster T.Flight Hotas 4 (joystick and throttle) for my old PS4 which would work here

Very well. I love mine.
Remember to flip the switch to PC at the rear of the joystick.

 

[Starscribe]

I have a warthog and I am very much ok with it and would buy it again.

I use the second throttle for a mining throttle and it gives me precision like nothing else. No, it does not have a twist axis, but on the throttle, there is a thumb button that I have roll and right bound to. This makes it very easy to NOT have a pedal. Even though I do have pedals, I almost never use them.

yes, they are pricy
I think they are worth it. I even have a second throttle for a mining rig machine I have so that I can mine with 2 people. My main and a second box. It makes the MOLE VERY profitable.

That's interesting.

Looking more at the Warthog, I can see that for flying the big industrial ships it would be a dream. Do you find it twitchy enough for something faster - say dogfighting? That trigger is - by design - quite hefty for example.

 

[Thalstan]

I use it for combat and don't have major issues. I am no Marcsand, but I can hold my own against normal players.

The trigger is a 2 tier trigger (one button trigger at half, one at full).

I don't know what YOU like, but this is the type of design that I prefer. I prefer heavier springs and always have, ever since the days of really crappy two button joysticks from the 80s that required a "game port". I remember the first Thrustmaster joysticks and while the springs eventually had issues, they were miles above where the rest of the market was and that was what I wanted.


I want to make things intentional. Fire and move when I want to, and to me, that means effective resistance. Others have their own preferences and that's fine and that's why we have choices on the market.

 

[vahadar]

I had a single warthog without the throttle from late 2018 untill it broke down last year during the height of the pandemic and the shortage of sticks.
I had to replace it with a single T16000M FCS in late spring, then another FCS duo in autumn as the single pack was out of stock (for a total of 3 sticks), because it was impossible to buy the warthog again last year.

Seems it was faulty, but Guillemot support took care of that. It is a very sturdy joystick, the handle is great, solid, the buttons configuration is well thought. I'm missing it really, the T16 is nice but well :)

But after seeing a lot of streamers with Double Virpil Constellation Alpha, this is next in my wishlist. They are not without issues it seems, a known streamer had a problem with ghost buttons on them.

 

[Starscribe]

I don't know what YOU like, but this is the type of design that I prefer. I prefer heavier springs and always have, ever since the days of really crappy two button joysticks from the 80s that required a "game port". I remember the first Thrustmaster joysticks and while the springs eventually had issues, they were miles above where the rest of the market was and that was what I wanted.


I want to make things intentional. Fire and move when I want to, and to me, that means effective resistance. Others have their own preferences and that's fine and that's why we have choices on the market.

Don't mind heavy resistance unless it impedes a sufficiently quick response. Some of what I've read suggests, for some, it does. Thanks for the input!

 

[Dirtbag_Leader]

I will also add that on the more budget end of the spectrum, I did REALLY like my X52 before I upgraded to the Virpil. I found its throttle shape much more comfortable than any of the TM stuff that I'd tried previously. Remember I have smaller hands, and both the T-Flight and 16000M grips were a bit 'chunky' for me. I did swap out the stick spring for a slightly heavier one though, but accuracy was just great.