What should a starter ship flight test cover?

[Raven_King]

There's a great thread here discussing starter ships: Which is a good couple of ships to start with

Like many of the more active members of this forum I have quite a few ships, and some of them have become my daily drivers because I can make decent aUEC in them (e.g. Mole, several fighters) or decent bounty-hunting rep progress (same medium and heavy fighters), or because they do something better than any other ship I have: Carrack and MSR for hauling quant to sell, MSR for ROC mining, 350R for getting between Orison and PO fast and Pisces because it's a fun little personal transport. I should probably add a light fighter too (e.g. Arrow, Gladius etc. - there are plenty). But these aren't really starter ships, they are more suited to someone from the backer mindset and wants to fund the project and skip ahead to more mid-game content, or someone who has played the game for some time now and probably knows enough to make their own decisions.

However, I've not spent much time in the starter ships being discussed in that thread. Maybe about half an hour or so in each, during free-flys, just taking them for a spin. That's not very informative really.

I think I had better to go spend a good day or more trying a little bit of everything in (I think):

• Cutlass Black
• (base) Freelancer
• Nomad
• Avenger Titan

And though they're not getting discussed in that thread (not really what its OP asked about), maybe also:

• Aurora MR
• Mustang Alpha

I'd think of using just the stock loadouts, so you can just rent it and go test. But feel free to argue that even for a beginner choosing a starter package, a certain loadout is essential. Go ahead and include those in your ship set if you think it's a good idea for a beginner.

Let's also consider how long a player may use their starter ship. For some of us with experience, we look at starters as a means to inexpensively speed our way through to earn the credits for the next ship in some chain, and then use that to earn the next and so on, up to where we actually want to be. E.g. "how do I get to quant mining with a Mole asap" or "how do I get to VHRT bounties in my favourite fighter asap"? But many beginners will want to take in the sights, dabble in a whole load of mission types, trade cargo, just play around and immerse themselves in this beautiful, infuriating, wonderful pre-release game.

That said, how should we plan a more objective test? Just bimbling around in them (technical term) isn't very objective, as they all do several things, but not with equal emphasis or ability. And some in-game activities take a bit of preparation and investment (ROC, or weapon and component loadouts). So to get a more objective view of them as candidate starter ships, I feel like anyone in my position should take each for more structured test-drive. Here's what I think the test drive could include.

• Halt Illegal Surveillance missions. Candidate for a fast way to earn your first 50,000-100,000 aUEC so you can rent some ships and play around, and with patience fairly grindable up to ~1-2m aUEC so you can buy a seriously good ship.
• Box-delivery mission or two. How is it to fly, land and move in and out of when not under any pressure. I think these are good for beginners because you exercise a lot of the game systems on foot and in flight, they're not timed and there's usually no pressure so they are not intimidating for a new player. You can still completely mess them up, so there's some learning curve based risk, but it's minimal.
• Bounty missions. This is just plain fun. Try to find where the stock ship's sweet spot is in bounty difficulty, for your skill level. Beginners can't so easily test this because you need to have the bounty hunter's guild certs and the contractor evaluation certs for the planet you're taking bounties near. E.g. for me, can I do an MRT in it, with the stock loadout? How about an HRT? VHRT?!
• A bunker mission. (Not my area yet, but high time I did some.)
• If ship can take a ROC, rent one and mine some Hadenite with the ship. If not, try hand mining.
• Do a cargo-hauling/trade run. How does it cope in atmo when you really care about not crashing? (Yes, you don't have to fly cargo in atmo so much right now because of the shared inventory between main LZs and their orbital stations, but we used to, and the consensus is we will again in future).
• Do some sightseeing. Subjectively, how enjoyable is it to fly? Can you see well? Is it a pleasure to use, to get in and out of?

So TEST, two questions for you:

1. What is the complete set of ships you would consider worth including in that starter ship group test. Abbreviations are fine. I'm up for testing at least 5 ships. I don't think I have the patience to test 10 yet. (Walk before we run, and a group test now will be out of date in three major patches time, and I do not care to keep redoing a large group). Diminishing returns in between those two limits, so what's your 'perfect' starter ship set to compare?
2. What set of activities, professions and fun stuff is within reach of at a beginner with least some of your set of ships? What would you try to cover in a 1-2 day (3-6 hour) test flight - what activities would you add or remove from my list?

 

[Richard Bong]

Since I don't have just a starter ship, in fact I don't even have, except as a loaner, a group 1 or group 2 ship (see below) I am going to come at this from a slightly different perspective.

There are three kinds of starter ships (strictly my opinion):

• The inexpensive (everything is relative) solo ships that come with a game package.
• The multi-crew, "soloable" ships that come with a game package.
• The "profession" starter ships that are the entry level ships in various professions, which generally, don't come with a game package and can be quite pricey.

The first group contains two, maybe three, ships that qualify as profession starter ships for the fighter pilot profession (the Arrow, the Hornet and, maybe, the Avenger Titan). The rest can be used in combat, but are seriously outclassed by a starter ship in that profession.

The first group has also gotten to be a smaller list than it was. For example, the Nomad is no longer being sold with a game package, so is it really a starter ship anymore?

Other than the Fighter Profession starter ships the first group are ships that introduce the player to the game but are ships the player will quickly out grow and get frustrated with their capabilities (or lack thereof) quickly. Their best use is, or will be once you can put boxes in cargo pods and once bounties will need to be taken alive, courier (box) missions, investigation missions, hand mining, medic response and some light combat missions.

The first group will also limit players to, pretty much, their starting system without support from ships like the Liberator.

The second group is the Cutlass Black, the Freelancer and the Constellation Andromeda. These three are starter ships for the hauling profession, but are more expensive to operate than the ships in the first group. The lack of starting funds is likely to make these three more frustrating than the first group, initially, but will take longer to outgrow.

The second group is good for light combat missions, is a little more survivable than the first group, but should be running instead of fighting. They will not be limited to the starting system.

The third group consists of ships like the Hawk and Stalker (Bounty Hunting), Arrow, Gladius and Hornet (Fighter Pilot), Prospector (Mining), Vulture (Salvage), Vulcan (Repair, Rearm and Refuel), Hull-A, Hull-B, Freelancer (Cargo), etc. These are unlikely to be the player's only ship.
These are also likely to be the player's intended focus. A player may not outgrow these ships, especially the solo ships.

Each group has different needs for support. As an org we should recognize that and be prepared for it.

Excluding the Arrow and Hornet, the first group should be encouraged to do box missions, investigation, hand mining and similar missions with us flying top cover and providing security. The goal with these players is to let them get the feel for the game, and let them figure out their path forward and let them get out of their starter ship into a profession ship. Since we excluded the Arrow and Hornet, if they want to fly combat missions, loan them a combat ship, rent them a low cost combat ship, and fly as their wingman as they learn their way through that.
Don't drag them through, let them accomplish the tasks.

Group 2 may be best served by the loaner of a starter ship, or as serving as crew on your ship until they have enough capital to properly use their ships. Showing them how cargo hauling works and the value of a crew and escorts. Once they have capital, crew their ship with them, or fly escort. Again letting them accomplish their tasks and progressing.

Group 3, they have an idea as to what they want to do. Best thing here is likely to be to fly escort, pull security, fly as crew, be a wingman as they learn their way around and get into their profession. With luck they already have a ship that can get them starting capital for those ships that need starting money.

 

[Raven_King]

That's a well reasoned analysis, @Richard Bong thanks - though I got a bit confused where you include a couple of ships (Arrow and Hornet) which I don't think are often seen as starter ships in both your Groups 1 and 3. Maybe that wasn't intentional?

The ships you mention in Group 2 and hint at in group 3 are beyond what I'm aiming for here - they're not starters in the 'buy it with a game package' sense. Or course players can and will buy them as starter ships sometimes, but I would think in far fewer numbers. [Edit: I did as a backer back in 2012, but I don't think my spend in ships is typical] And by starter I definitely don't mean 'profession starter' ships (unless a starter package type ship also happens to be a profession starter ship - I agree the Titan might be). So for mining a ROC might be a profession starter, or as you say a Prospector. Not what I'm going for. Hope that makes sense!

It's not a mark against that a 'starter ship' is outclassed by something else in that profession; quite the opposite, it's expected. There is probably something wrong if it isn't! Also, I think if a ship is not sold with a starter pack (and I hadn't realized the Nomad wasn't at the moment), but it's really popular and lots of players are buying them at the same time as a game package to use as their starter, I think that ship would be fair game to include. I hear so much about the Cutty Black and Avenger Titan and maybe even the Freelancer being recommended for new players for 'just a few more bucks' that I feel like they should be part of the 'starter ship' set. Do you think there are others in that set? Do the ones I've mentioned not deserve their places because no-one really buys them like that?

I'm up for test flying and reviewing (mostly for myself but hope to post it on here) something like an Aurora, a Mustang Delta and probably a Cutty Black and a Titan, plus whatever else we can agree is a solid game-package or day 1 CCU-worthy starter, happy knowing none of them needs to be 'the best' at one specific thing.

Do you want to have a go at a list of those, and what activities or game loops a solid test drive ought to involve in order to be a fair and moderately complete representation of what most new players can or want to do?

 

[Richard Bong]

And just for completeness, my "Starter ship" is a Hawk, and it is not my only ship. :)

 

[White Lando]

I'd probably consider adding the 300 & Reliant series to the list.

Beyond that I don't have much to add. The tests make sense.

Maybe a disclaimer along the lines of "Starter ships for people looking to play right now (3.16)"

There are some ships with great starter potential that just don't have their game loops yet.

 

[Cugino83]

This is an interesting tread...
Well first of all we should define what is to be considered a "starter ship"?
For sure all the ship that are sold with a "digital download", but that also include the UEE Exploration 2950 package at 1300+$... not really a "started pack" if you ask me...

So fist of all IMHO a "start ship" should be a package that is under the cost of a normal game, so 60-80$ range.
this will leave us a limied selection of ships:
- Aurora MR
- Mustang Alpha
- C8X pisces
- 100i

I'll also add the Avenger Titan since is 85$ and just above the setting range...

Now for the thing to evaluate.
First and foremost a new player should need to have access to the most of the gamplay loops as easy as it get and that mean:
- combat
- explorarion
- mininng
- box delivery
- trading
- FPS mission

Other thing to be considered are how "easy going" the ship are: SC have a tons of command and can be very confusing and complicated for new player so having a ship that is easy and intuitive to fly whould help to familiarise with the game whitout being punish too much for mistakes.

Another thing to consider is, since the introduction of the new medical gameplay, ohw easy is the ship to be access? if you have a leges injury this could prevent you to climb a ladder, and thus to access your ship, combine that with the fact that new player are neither familar with the mechanics or preprared to an unplesant situation, being able to access the ship even when injured is a plus.

Expandability is another aspect of the ship to evaluate: could you spend some earning on it to improve his performance? And how far can you go with it?
After all a new player will spend a lot of time grinding UAC with that ship, being able to improve it in a meaningfull way will be a satisfaction since will give a player that sense of progression and accomplishment that will distract him from the "boring" process of grinding UAC for the next ship.

Finally I'll also evaluate the long term usage of the ship: after you have grinded enough UAC to buy a new ship how could you keep using your starter? Since you already have this ship is there a thing that will bring you back to it even when you'll have most valued ship? For sure most of the starter ships are not top of the line in anything, but some times you don't need that...

I think a good comparison should evaluate all this aspect and most impostant give a good importance on the feel of the ship rather then the statistics: that ship will be the first impression a new player has on the game so having a good feeling out of it is an important thing, even is form the games prospetive that is not the best choice if you looks to the statistics.

 

[Richard Bong]

That's a well reasoned analysis, @Richard Bong thanks - though I got a bit confused where you include a couple of ships (Arrow and Hornet) which I don't think are often seen as starter ships in both your Groups 1 and 3. Maybe that wasn't intentional?

The ships you mention in Group 2 and hint at in group 3 are beyond what I'm aiming for here - they're not starters in the 'buy it with a game package' sense. Or course players can and will buy them as starter ships sometimes, but I would think in far fewer numbers. And by starter I definitely don't mean 'profession starter' ships (unless a starter package type ship also happens to be a profession starter ship - I agree the Titan might be). So for mining a ROC might be a profession starter, or as you say a Prospector. Not what I'm going for. Hope that makes sense!

It's not a mark against that a 'starter ship' is outclassed by something else in that profession; quite the opposite, it's expected. There is probably something wrong if it isn't! Also, I think if a ship is not sold with a starter pack (and I hadn't realized the Nomad wasn't at the moment), but it's really popular and lots of players are buying them at the same time as a game package to use as their starter, I think that ship would be fair game to include. I hear so much about the Cutty Black and Avenger Titan and maybe even the Freelancer being recommended for new players for 'just a few more bucks' that I feel like they should be part of the 'starter ship' set. Do you think there are others in that set? Do the ones I've mentioned not deserve their places because no-one really buys them like that?

I'm up for test flying and reviewing (mostly for myself but hope to post it on here) something like an Aurora, a Mustang Delta and probably a Cutty Black and a Titan, plus whatever else we can agree is a solid game-package or day 1 CCU-worthy starter, happy knowing none of them needs to be 'the best' at one specific thing.

Do you want to have a go at a list of those, and what activities or game loops a solid test drive ought to involve in order to be a fair and moderately complete representation of what most new players can or want to do?

Group 1 and group 2 all are available with game packages.

The Arrow and Hornet are solo ships, that come with a game package and are relatively inexpensive. They, unlike the rest of Group 1, are specialized, fighters so also fit the definition of Group 3. Yes, their inclusion in both groups was intentional.

The Arrow isn't a generalist so does't really fit in the low power do a bunch of things but not really good at any mold but with a game package is under $100. Does it really belong in group 1? Maybe not.

The F7C, on the other hand, is available with a game package, as well as being a good group 3 (Fighter Pilot) starter ship, can be used in most of the roles described for group 1, with the same caveat that the cargo pod needs to be accessable from the ground. It does fit in group 1.

The Avenger Titan is, IMHO, capable of being a great profession starter for fighter pilot, while retaining all of the other capabilities of the non-fighters in the rest of Group 1. It is the opposite of the Hornet in that regard.

The Cutlass Black, Freelancer and Connie Andromeda, all are available with a game package, but are much more expensive to operate (in game), have a much longer range and really should be flown with a crew. I split my initial part of the list into two parts because of that. Even though they can be used for the same starter missions It is tougher to make initial headway with them. (I've tried it with my Cutlass Blue, and my MSR. You don't think much about the overhead until you compare their fuel use and repair costs to stuff with small components.) Technically they also fit the group 3 definition.

The ships that used to also be in group 1 include the Nomad, the 300i, and the Reliant Kore but those no longer are available with a game package. They outclass most of group 1, for group 1 missions but the same general rules apply. None of them really fit group 3, so I don't know that adding them really makes much difference.

When you are talking about buying a starter ship and an additional ship, that additional ship is highly likely to be a (group 3) profession starter ship. Group 3 rules would then generally apply. :) I see no reason to own more than one Group 1 ship.

My Liberator is a group 3 ship, technically (the starter ship for the Transporter profession), but I would never expect to use it to get started in the game. The Hawk, (group 3) on the other hand is the ship we expect to start the game flying. (My better half and I each have one.) The Prospector, Vulture, Herald, Hulls A and B, and similiar are group 3 ships that I would also expect people, if they owned one, to use to start out in the verse.

 

[Richard Bong]

Maybe a disclaimer along the lines of "Starter ships for people looking to play right now (3.16)"

Unfortunately that doesn't age well. :)

 

[NaffNaffBobFace]

My lopsided view: There are "Starter Ships" for starting the game and progressing in it, and then there are "Starting Tier" ships for specific professions.

For example, right now if you choose refuel (a coming mechanic) as your profession, the Starfarer is in no way going to be a" Starter Ship" but until another refuel ship comes in, it's the Refuel Starter and Finisher as it's the only refuel craft in the game right now.

A starter is the ship which is accessible, be it to price or profession. In that regard I feel it depends entirely on what you want to do in the 'Verse and which ship gives you access to that.

 

[Raven_King]

This is an interesting tread...
Well first of all we should define what is to be considered a "starter ship"?
For sure all the ship that are sold with a "digital download", but that also include the UEE Exploration 2950 package at 1300+$... not really a "started pack" if you ask me...

So fist of all IMHO a "start ship" should be a package that is under the cost of a normal game, so 60-80$ range.
this will leave us a limied selection of ships:
- Aurora MR
- Mustang Alpha
- C8X pisces
- 100i

I'll also add the Avenger Titan since is 85$ and just above the setting range...

Now for the thing to evaluate.
First and foremost a new player should need to have access to the most of the gamplay loops as easy as it get and that mean:
- combat
- explorarion
- mininng
- box delivery
- trading
- FPS mission

Other thing to be considered are how "easy going" the ship are: SC have a tons of command and can be very confusing and complicated for new player so having a ship that is easy and intuitive to fly whould help to familiarise with the game whitout being punish too much for mistakes.

Another thing to consider is, since the introduction of the new medical gameplay, ohw easy is the ship to be access? if you have a leges injury this could prevent you to climb a ladder, and thus to access your ship, combine that with the fact that new player are neither familar with the mechanics or preprared to an unplesant situation, being able to access the ship even when injured is a plus.

Expandability is another aspect of the ship to evaluate: could you spend some earning on it to improve his performance? And how far can you go with it?
After all a new player will spend a lot of time grinding UAC with that ship, being able to improve it in a meaningfull way will be a satisfaction since will give a player that sense of progression and accomplishment that will distract him from the "boring" process of grinding UAC for the next ship.

Finally I'll also evaluate the long term usage of the ship: after you have grinded enough UAC to buy a new ship how could you keep using your starter? Since you already have this ship is there a thing that will bring you back to it even when you'll have most valued ship? For sure most of the starter ships are not top of the line in anything, but some times you don't need that...

I think a good comparison should evaluate all this aspect and most impostant give a good importance on the feel of the ship rather then the statistics: that ship will be the first impression a new player has on the game so having a good feeling out of it is an important thing, even is form the games prospetive that is not the best choice if you looks to the statistics.

That is really great input - several really good points there. I'll plan to use lots of that in the review & comparison process. Thank you @Cugino83!

Group 1 and group 2 all are available with game packages.

The Arrow and Hornet are solo ships, that come with a game package and are relatively inexpensive. They, unlike the rest of Group 1, are specialized, fighters so also fit the definition of Group 3. Yes, their inclusion in both groups was intentional.

The Arrow isn't a generalist so does't really fit in the low power do a bunch of things but not really good at any mold but with a game package is under $100. Does it really belong in group 1? Maybe not.

The F7C, on the other hand, as well as being a good group 3 (Fighter Pilot) starter ship, can be used in most of the roles described for group 1, with the same caveat that the cargo pod needs to be accessable from the ground, so does fit in group 1.

The Avenger Titan is, IMHO, capable of being a great profession starter for fighter pilot, while retaining all of the other capabilities of the non-fighters in the rest of Group 1. It is the opposite of the Hornet in that regard.

The Cutlass Black, Freelancer and Connie Andromeda, all are available with a game package, but are much more expensive to operate (in game), have a much longer range and really should be flown with a crew. I split my initial part of the list into two parts because of that. Even though they can be used for the same starter missions It is tougher to make initial headway with them. (I've tried it with my Cutlass Blue, and my MSR. You don't think much about the overhead until you compare their fuel use and repair costs to stuff with small components.) Technically they also fit the group 3 definition.

The ships that used to also be in group 1 include the Nomad, the 300i, and the Reliant Kore but those no longer are available with a game package. They outclass most of group 1, for group 1 missions but the same general rules apply. None of them really fit group 3, so I don't know that adding them really makes much difference.

When you are talking about buying a starter ship and an additional ship, that additional ship is highly likely to be a (group 3) profession starter ship. Group 3 rules would then generally apply. :) I see no reason to own more than one Group 1 ship.

My Liberator is a group 3 ship, technically (the starter ship for the Transporter profession), but I would never expect to use it to get started in the game. The Hawk, (group 3) on the other hand is the ship we expect to start the game flying. (My better half and I each have one.) The Prospector, Vulture, Herald, Hulls A and B, and similiar are group 3 ships that I would also expect people, if they owned one, to use to start out in the verse.

Aah, well that makes a LOT of sense. Great points, @Richard Bong. I'm sorry I didn't look at this earlier on, but with some exclusions (omitting packages with no ship at all, Sq42, and anything above USD $500) a list of current star citizen game packages + starter ship and their USD prices includes:

1. Aurora MR $54
2. Mustang Alpha $54
3. Anvil Arrow $108
4. Anvil C8X Pisces Expedition $72
5. Avenger Titan $84
6. 100i $78
7. Cutlass Black $138
8. Hornet F7C $150
9. MISC Freelancer $150
10. Constellation Andromeda $330
11. ...

I'm inclined to exclude the Andromeda based solely on its price - I could go on about how much I like them, but we're on the way towards whale territory by the $300 mark. For me $150 as about triple the price of some AAA games seems a fair cutoff (I love how you phrase it: "relatively inexpensive" - well, they sure are, but still!). So, perhaps that's the list for this exercise: ships 1 through 9 above?

Taking your other points individually, I see your point about the Arrow, but I hadn't realised it was only $108 with a game package. I think it's worth including, for the price reason alone. A beginner might have heard it's an amazing ship (I'll have to look into how good it is stock, but that's for another time), and be interested in understanding that it's amazing in combat, and can only do some of the other activities and not others. Similar for the Hornet with its tiny 2 SCU cargo pod. On reflection it's clearly sold as a starter ship, so I feel it's okay to include in a group test like this.

For the Cutlass Black and Freelancer I hear you on their higher operation costs, but I flew a Constellation Andromeda solo for quite a while when I came back to the game in late 2020 in patch 3.12/3.13 (I forget), doing cargo trading and box delivery missions (don't laugh - I was a total newbie and hadn't watched any YouTube or found any forums yet), and the costs didn't seem prohibitive. I made credits, slowly, with some missteps. I guess the issue would be if you're likely to go off exploring and get stranded, unable to pay for fuel/repairs and have to resort to something drastic to try to get to civilization again before you realised you were in trouble. I've never experienced that, but I had a bit more starting cash from pledges and being a backer since 2012, so maybe that's not a fair excuse. Can you expand on why you think the operation costs might make these ships unsuitable for new players? Will they get stuck and be broke?

Happy to drop the Nomad (and not add the 300i or the Reliant Kore). Unless someone else feels really strongly about them. I don't - I haven't ever warmed to the Nomad, but I've not really given it much of a chance. (I couldn't get into it at IAE 2951, despite several minutes of trying! I hope no one was watching...)

Good points about your Group 3 ships, I can go with that line of thinking. Was the Hawk sold with a game package when you bought it?

Let's see if anyone else wants to chip in. Thank you both for your really useful feedback.

 

[White Lando]

Unfortunately that doesn't age well. :)

But fortunately, things can be updated

 

[Raven_King]

My lopsided view: There are "Starter Ships" for starting the game and progressing in it, and then there are "Starting Tier" ships for specific professions.

For example, right now if you choose refuel (a coming mechanic) as your profession, the Starfarer is in no way going to be a" Starter Ship" but until another refuel ship comes in, it's the Refuel Starter and Finisher as it's the only refuel craft in the game right now.

A starter is the ship which is accessible, be it to price or profession. In that regard I feel it depends entirely on what you want to do in the 'Verse and which ship gives you access to that.

This. Exactly. I'm looking to review genuine starter ships that a new player would buy, and some professions are out of reach for them to begin with (as things stand with ships we have and know about).
[Edit]: I realise I'm making some arbitrary choices. Why include an F7C as a 'starter' and not an Andromeda. Yep, could make a perfectly reasonable argument that both are, or neither, and value for the USD price is very subjective. I guess if I'm going to spend a few weekends doing this, maybe I get to draw the line , but I'm keen on sounding it out before spending that time.

No one has commented so far on the stock/rental aspect. Does that invalidate a review process? Honestly, I could use store credit to get each of these ships in turn, so it wouldn't be hard to buy them with store credit, fit them out with a loadout suited to the task, do the review, and melt them. Maybe that's fairer.

 

[Richard Bong]

That is really great input - several really good points there. I'll plan to use lots of that in the review & comparison process. Thank you @Cugino83!


Aah, well that makes a LOT of sense. Great points, @Richard Bong. I'm sorry I didn't look at this earlier on, but with some exclusions (omitting packages with no ship at all, Sq42, and anything above USD $500) a list of current star citizen game packages + starter ship and their USD prices includes:

1. Aurora MR $54
2. Mustang Alpha $54
3. Anvil Arrow $108
4. Anvil C8X Pisces Expedition $72
5. Avenger Titan $84
6. 100i $78
7. Cutlass Black $138
8. Hornet F7C $150
9. MISC Freelancer $150
10. Constellation Andromeda $330
11. ...

I'm inclined to exclude the Andromeda based solely on its price - I could go on about how much I like them, but we're on the way towards whale territory by the $300 mark. For me $150 as about triple the price of some AAA games seems a fair cutoff (I love how you phrase it: "relatively inexpensive" - well, they sure are, but still!). So, perhaps that's the list for this exercise: ships 1 through 9 above?

Taking your other points individually, I see your point about the Arrow, but I hadn't realised it was only $108 with a game package. I think it's worth including, for the price reason alone. A beginner might have heard it's an amazing ship (I'll have to look into how good it is stock, but that's for another time), and be interested in understanding that it's amazing in combat, and can only do some of the other activities and not others. Similar for the Hornet with its tiny 2 SCU cargo pod. On reflection it's clearly sold as a starter ship, so I feel it's okay to include in a group test like this.

For the Cutlass Black and Freelancer I hear you on their higher operation costs, but I flew a Constellation Andromeda solo for quite a while when I came back to the game in late 2020 in patch 3.12/3.13 (I forget), doing cargo trading and box delivery missions (don't laugh - I was a total newbie and hadn't watched any YouTube or found any forums yet), and the costs didn't seem prohibitive. I made credits, slowly, with some missteps. I guess the issue would be if you're likely to go off exploring and get stranded, unable to pay for fuel/repairs and have to resort to something drastic to try to get to civilization again before you realised you were in trouble. I've never experienced that, but I had a bit more starting cash from pledges and being a backer since 2012, so maybe that's not a fair excuse. Can you expand on why you think the operation costs might make these ships unsuitable for new players? Will they get stuck and be broke?

Happy to drop the Nomad (and not add the 300i or the Reliant Kore). Unless someone else feels really strongly about them. I don't - I haven't ever warmed to the Nomad, but I've not really given it much of a chance. (I couldn't get into it at IAE 2951, despite several minutes of trying! I hope no one was watching...)

Good points about your Group 3 ships, I can go with that line of thinking. Was the Hawk sold with a game package when you bought it?

Let's see if anyone else wants to chip in. Thank you both for your really useful feedback.

I have tried the Connie several times, but I really couldn't get into it. I get it, about the Nomad. :)

The only ships that can actually, currently, do all the starter missions are the 100i and Avenger Titan.

The one thing that you didn't have on your list, that you can do in most of the starter ships, since most have an interior, is move personal items from point a to point b.

My Hawk was included in the Scoundrel pack, so, technically, yes, it is my game package. :)

 

[Richard Bong]

No one has commented so far on the stock/rental aspect. Does that invalidate a review process? Honestly, I could use store credit to get each of these ships in turn, so it wouldn't be hard to buy them with store credit, fit them out with a loadout suited to the task, do the review, and melt them. Maybe that's fairer.

The downside of rental is you can't modify them. The upside is they start stock.
Progression with a ship is an interesting thing to show, but with most of the starters there isn't much point in upgrading them.

 

[Shadow Reaper]

I think working from first principles requires you choose a career path before you choose a ship, and then recommend one of say three ships under $100. The Lancer and Cutty are not starter ships. They're ships to aspire to early on, at least according to CIG.

I have been wondering about a new player tutorial that starts with the 315P (just $50) and walks the player through an FPS mission before they even buy armor, so they get equipped without any purchases, then moves through missions to get better equipped and finally purchases top gear. I would then recommend medium or heavy helmet, heavy torso, medium arms, light legs, virtually all ADP, the Gallant, S2 suppressor, underbarrel field light, backpack and 0.9 speed loadout as their baseline, all from a single stop. They can choose other builds after they have FPS skills. Starting is no time to make such choices and this build will keep them alive through all manner of trouble. Teach them to sprint and fire from the hip when rounding corners.

The goal is to get them equipped and flying, and earning banko in the first hour of play. After about an hour they should be fully equipped for FPS combat and have enough experience they know how to advance in the mission lines. From there, the player moves into smuggling and learns stealth techniques so necessary to good play, even if you don't fly a stealth ship. Everyone has to have the sensor equation committed to memory and use it whenever they play. They gain access to the criminal mission series and have all their choices open to them by two hours into the game. They also have the choice of several huge revenue streams to pursue and grind as they like. Smuggling and mission running are the biggest cash earners in game save the extremely high risk hauling (30k) that no starter should attempt.

Only after FPS and smuggling would I suggest the player start to learn ship combat and not with a shitty starter ship. Depending what they learn about their piloting skills, a Hornet, a Sabre, Sentinel, etc. IMHO, you don't send players out to learn combat without a real combat ship. That just leads to discouragement. Alternatively they might decide to learn mining, or simply go into the hauling business, but at least they'll be making those choices with the sensor and FPS combat skills necessary to staying alive.

So my recommend is the 315P. You can live out of it and do an amazing variety of things with it, but in times of conflict you should really just run. That's true of any ship in game that is not specifically a combat fighter, when facing a combat fighter. The 315P comes stock with bed, head and galley, stealth components and blinding speed. Its all any newbie needs to enjoy the game from day one, and in the future its tractor and enhanced cargo space is going to make it the premium solo salvage ship.

 

[Scape]

I just keep going back to my Nomad, I just like the damn thing. Tried every ship up to the Mercury and connie size, but always just use my nomad.
It is used for :
box deliveries, drug running, roc mining, light hauling. Also claim time is very fast.

Can't say I use it for combat much but that's not my style of play either so I cannot vouch for it in a fire fight

 

[Richard Bong]

I think working from first principles requires you choose a career path before you choose a ship, and then recommend one of say three ships under $100. The Lancer and Cutty are not starter ships. They're ships to aspire to early on, at least according to CIG.

I have been wondering about a new player tutorial that starts with the 315P (just $50) and walks the player through an FPS mission before they even buy armor, so they get equipped without any purchases, then moves through missions to get better equipped and finally purchases top gear. I would then recommend Medium of heavy helmet, heavy torso, medium arms, light legs, virtualy all ADP and the Gallant as their baseline starter FPS weapon, all from a single stop. They can choose other builds after they have FPS skills. Starting is no time to make such choices. The goal is to get them equipped and flying, and earning banko in the first hour of play. After about an hour they should be fully equipped for FPS combat and have enough experience they know how to advance in the mission lines. From there, the player moves into smuggling and learns stealth techniques so necessary to good play, even if you don't fly a stealth ship. Everyone has to have the sensor equation committed to memory and use it whenever they play. They gain access to the criminal mission series and have all their choices open to them by two hours into the game. they also have the choice of several huge revenue streams to pursue and grind as they like. Smuggling and mission running at the biggest cash earners in game save the extremely high risk hauling (30k) that no starter should attempt.

Only after FPS and smuggling would I suggest the player start to learn ship combat and not with a shitty starter ship. Depending what they learn about their piloting skills, a Hornet, a Sabre, Sentinel, etc. IMHO, you don't send players out to learn combat without a real combat ship. That just leads to discouragement. Alternatively they might decide to learn mining, or simply go into the hauling business, but at least they'll be making those choices with the sensor and FPS combat skills necessary to staying alive.
https://starcitizen.tools/ADP
So my recommend is the 315P. You can live out of it and do an amazing variety of things with it, but in times of conflict you should really just run. That's true of any ship in game that is not specifically a combat fighter, when facing a combat fighter. The 315P comes stock with bead, head and galley, stealth components and blinding speed. Its all any newbie needs to enjoy the game from day one.

I like it. I personally prefer light or medium armor. They let you move faster, but I can see the point in heavy.
The downside is none of the 300 series comes with a game package anymore.

 

[Shadow Reaper]

The FPS calcuator I love is down right now, but the buildout I recommend is basically as much armor as you can wear and still have the 0.9 movement necessary to thwart all AI. They just don't hit players moving at 0.9. If you've seen the many vids online of players clearing the 890J mission getting shot up every time they step in front of 3 NPCs, that is because they are carrying too much weight--usually more than one weapon. 0.9 movement is important. If you carry 35 kg total or above on missions, you are going to get shot up because you cannot get out of a doorway fast enough to avoid NPC shots. Players under 35 kg total do not have this problem.

Heavy torso is important because it has the most carry slots, and torso is where people usually aim. Light legs are important because medium and heavy legs generate huge stamina losses and not only limits top running speed but endurance. Running in heavy will make your whole body shake and your eyesight tremble during shooting, leading to misses.

After a player is established they may make other choices. Heavy or medium helmet is a hard one. Those extra points from heavy really do matter, but the helmet restricts your field of view, so it's a hard choice. All helmets weigh the same so that's not a factor.

I suggest Gallant as a baseline because it is by far the most versatile weapon in game. It doesn't need to be reloaded often, which is when most players in Star Marine get killed--reloading. Each mag offers huge firepower, and eventually you'll be able to recharge these batteries aboard ship so won't need to pay for ammo. It fires fast and kills quickly at the best range in game outside a sniper rifle. 70 meters is just fine. SMGs power declines steeply after 30 meters and virtually all missions offer shots past 30 meters. The Gallant has extremely low recoil, so all shots from its oversize 5 round burst hit the same target. UEE troops chose it for excellent reasons and it is extremely difficult to beat for general purpose combat. It can wear a suppressor and when it does, AI does not aggro the position of the player when shooting. This is hugely important in clearing the hardest missions alone. By way of contrast, the Demeco cannot wear a suppressor so is not a good selection for a newbie. The underbarrel light is necessary because the helmet light sucks and you can't adequately see on many missions without it. There has never been a real advantage offered by the laser pointer. Here's an old shot from the calculator before it went offline in 3.16:

The build on the left is for general combat use. Note the Gallant mags hold 60 shots, not 120, so this is 360 shots. At the time I did this the multi-tool was not working in the calculator and probably ought to replace a couple magazines to keep weight under 35 kg where speed then drops to 0.85. 300 shots divided by 5 round bursts is 60 trigger squeezes--far more than needed for any mission in game.

The build on the right is for wearing aboard ship and grants 1.0 movement. Note you cannot access the torso utility slots without a light torso piece, and this is really the only armor you can use if you want 1.0 movement. This is however enough to fend off players boarding your Carrack until you can get suited up properly. It says 4 grenades but I think this is an error and you would get 1 plus again your multi-tool, which given tractor ability, healing and the expected ability to cut hull to gain access or do repairs, you want on you most of the time. Also not shown is a hacking card because again, it was not working in the calculator when I took this shot. One of the highest risk operations anyone will do in FPS is clearing a crimestat, which requires a card. The combat build above leaves room and mass for the card if you remove the two magazines and carry just 6.

If we're going to have tutorials for new players they need to have excellent gear very early on, and learn to use it. If they fall in love with FPS, of course they'll go learn to use rail guns, shotguns, etc., but that is not how you start, so you have to decide for a starter to some degree. Buying all your first deliberate buildout should be made simple and one stop, hence the choice of ADP. BTW, ADP makes jetpacks. They're just not in game yet.

 

[Dirtbag_Leader]

Good thread for the record! I didn't realize the game packages had changed up so much, no Reliant or 300s anymore? Crazy! Anyway, at a slight risk of repeating myself, my opinion is that the important starter ships are the ones that offer really good REASONS to help draw new players into the 'Verse. Someone with a brand new account will invariably start with either an Aurora or a Mustang, but after their 4th or 5th semi-successful PU experience they'll realize they want to upgrade to something 'better,' but without falling into the trap of throwing in a bunch of IRL cash like the rest of us. Hence:

Step 1: Titan. For such a small cost bump ($55 ship value), it's SOO much more ship than the basic starters with a both a ramp AND cockpit ladder, more cargo, great for boxes, MUCH better hardpoints, a real interior (really helps draw a newb into the immersion), and perhaps best of all, such wonderful cockpit visibility for marveling at the 'Verse! Hell, you can even cram a Greycat in the back! Do I like flying a 300 series or Pisces more? You bet, but neither yields that same versatility per cost that the Titan does, and that's what a new player starting out needs most.

Step 2: Cutlass black. This is for the simple reason that it's the cheapest ship that offers 2-player gameplay. Yeah I know you can PUT a copilot in a Reliant, but what's he gonna do? The Black gives you the double beds, turret, copilot seat, gun racks, vehicle space, and all those wonderful doors to jump in and out of when you get somewhere, and it still works just fine when soloed. Hell even today it's one of the best ships for running Xenothreat in. Zoom in, knock out some pirates, grab your gun for the FPS part, load it up through a side door for the cargo-ferrying, and even stick around and try not to get blown up by the Idris! All for $100!

In addition to these two main 'pillar' ships, I'd agree the Pisces, 100er, Nomad, and possibly Freelancer (personally the visibility kills it for me) are also worth consideration.

There's no way I'd ever in good conscience recommend a Hornet/Arrow (too specific, can't take a box), Constellation (I'm a Connie-lover but really takes $ AND 3 to crew), 300er (just an expensive Titan with the added complexity of choosing a variant), or Reliant (forever too buggy!) to a newcomer though.

 

[Raven_King]

The FPS calcuator I love…

That whole post is great. Not really on topic for planning a series of ship flight tests, but honestly so valuable. I don’t play FPS games these days, but have played my share of Call of Duty (various early versions), Halo and a few others. However, I got absolutely assassinated, creamed, murdered humiliatingly over and over in Star Marine, it was such a horrible experience I haven’t tried a bunker mission yet. But how sodding hard can it really be to hold your own in FPS? I can’t believe it’s that bad. Thanks, chief. I feel like I have the germ of a solid plan planted now.