Avenger Spider

Shadow Reaper

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The other day, someone posted a note of their support for the Avenger as a drop ship, and I made a note to take a fresh look at that ship. I'm glad I did because I made an interesting discovery. I don't spend enough time looking at the cheaper ships because I don't want an entry level ride, but that doesn't mean I can't appreciate the Avenger. It's a fascinating bird.

Though the Avengers can't hold up to much pounding in combat, they are fairly fast, maneuverable, have passable weapons, and can be fitted for outrageous utility compared to other true fighters, since they have all that room in back. Be it prisoners, a boarding party, an EM suite with an EMP generator or just cargo, the Avenger is in my mind the best starter ship, or at least an equal to the various Reliant variants, and your choice might be made on whether you really need that second seat.

It is fantastically compact for a ship with cargo space. In void armor this ship's radar cross section (RCS) should disappear faster and better than the Hornet. It will certainly be smaller than any Reliant.

The big discovery for me however has to do with guns. The CIG info on available weapons load out is apparently wrong. It says in one place the ship has a pair of S1 fixed mounts and in another place the fixed mounts are S2. Here however, is a vid with someone flying with S3 Tarantulas on the wings:

View: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=AYISQL83x6g


This was my key observation, that this bird can be made dangerous, especially when loading it the way Youngblood is here suggesting. This makes me wonder if you can't just put 3 S3's on it all fixed. 3 Omni IX's would make the weapons cheap to operate for someone who is flying on a budget and should be the max DPS the bird can carry. (We'll see when we get the next weapons rewrite, with 2.6.) With 3 Tarantulas the Avenger becomes a poor man's attack platform, as it can pound large targets from great distance and then land troops. If you're willing to leave your cheap ship, just two guys could take down a Star G's shields and turrets from 5km, spike the ship with all their S1 missiles and maybe, just MAYBE board 2 squads of 7. I would not leave my Redeemer or Hoplite unattended, but I have no compunctions about doing this with an Avenger. And of course if you can do this, players are going to test to see if they an actually attack, board and take targets alone.

Like the Reliant this is a fragile ship, but it is certainly a fascinating and useful one.
 

marcsand2

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is a vid with someone flying with S3 Tarantulas on the wings:
I'm sorry, check the vid at 0:19 and 0:30. The wing mounts are fixed S2. The Tarantula GT-870 is a S2 weapon https://robertsspaceindustries.com/electronic-access/Weapon-Roms/Tarantula-GT-870, the Tarantula GT-870 Mk3 is a S3 weapon https://robertsspaceindustries.com/electronic-access/Weapon-Roms/Tarantula-GT-870-Mk3. The best weapon of the Avenger still is the nose mounted Tigerstreik. At short range it really is devastating.
But, the Avenger is an agile fighter, not as agile as a Gladius, but it has a better nose gun. Also very important, when trying to do an 180, use boost because the Avenger can't reverse direction as fast as a Gladius. A big plus is its versatility, which the Gladius lacks.
Good find :relaxed:
 

Bruttle

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Like the Reliant this is a fragile ship, but it is certainly a fascinating and useful one.
I completely agree with you there. I really do think that the Avenger is priced way under value for it's versatility. It's the starter ship that I always recommend to friends. They'll have a passable time doing just about any activity available now in the verse.

On the drop ship thing though, I still am not on board with the whole concept. Maybe if the mechanics are changed, I could understand it. Right now (and for the foreseeable future) it just doesn't make sense. That's because you can just cram in people like a crowded club on a saturday night.

At the moment, there are no working plans to fix that either. Sure, CIG has talked about possible options, but nothing has stuck. I get the impression that their current plan is to leave it alone unless a really good idea comes along and changes it. That means that every single ship in the game can function as a drop ship. An avenger could deliver a section. A connie could drop an entire platoon. A carrack could drop a battalion and so on. If you consider drop ships measured at their current capacity of standing room only, things get stupid real quick.

Don't get me wrong, I sincerely hope they find a solution to this issue before release. There just isn't one now and as far as I know, no plans to implement anything either.
 

Pander

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Another good option for drop ships is the 300 series. In lore thre is reference to the uee using 350r as drop ships.

This opens up further options, side door drop ships and rear door drop ships. 350r has the potential to be an amazing drop ship on speed/handling alone hitting that thing will be a real challenge. With the rework coming the 300 series may get even better (or worse)

Reallyfor drop ships we have tonnes of options available

For getting troops in quickly
300 series
Avenger
Hoplite
Reliant

Can be used for dragon flies aswell
Cutlass
Freelancer

Heavy drop ships Ursa rover possible tanks and dragonflies (I would use these for landing on planet fortification to
Starfarer
Connie
Polaris
Carrack
Catapillar possibly

Stealth
Prowler
And possibly modded cutlass
Freelancer also has low Sig engines

The options available are crazy

And we still have more ships coming
 

agathon_orti

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Another good option for drop ships is the 300 series. In lore thre is reference to the uee using 350r as drop ships.

This opens up further options, side door drop ships and rear door drop ships. 350r has the potential to be an amazing drop ship on speed/handling alone hitting that thing will be a real challenge. With the rework coming the 300 series may get even better (or worse)
Does the 350r has more room in the back then other 300 series ships? and they dont have a good option to get troops quickly in and out of the ship. (this could change ofcourse with the overhaul) personally if there is going to be a origin brand dropship i feel it would be 600 variant.
 

Pander

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Does the 350r has more room in the back then other 300 series ships? and they dont have a good option to get troops quickly in and out of the ship. (this could change ofcourse with the overhaul) personally if there is going to be a origin brand dropship i feel it would be 600 variant.

The gull wing doors are perfect for getting out quickly and shouldn't be much of a problem getting in if you look at mass effect 3 the small drop ship they get in and out of has the same doors, they pull up to a landing pad and get in and out . Boom and zoom drop ship. It also means you can get really close to your drop zone due to how skinny the 300 is
 

agathon_orti

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agathon orti
The gull wing doors are perfect for getting out quickly and shouldn't be much of a problem getting in if you look at mass effect 3 the small drop ship they get in and out of has the same doors, they pull up to a landing pad and get in and out . Boom and zoom drop ship. It also means you can get really close to your drop zone due to how skinny the 300 is
Ok i think you are referring to the kodiak shuttle? and yes i have to agree the kodiak is ideal to get troops on and of in mass effect..
But unlike the 300 series of ships the kodiak does not have a small lader that people will have to climb before they can get in.

That ladder is going to gimp you in your deployment, especially how the buttons currently work in game.. i just dont see a handfull of people trying to get up that thing when time is of the essence.
 

DarthMatter

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I read the title and thought this was discussion on the Spiderman Homecoming trailer...

But since I'm here, I gave the actual topic some thought:
I don't think the Avenger would be a good drop-ship compared to the competition, but as you say it's a versatile ship. And for smaller orgs, say just a group of friends sized, wanting to do some military action. The Avenger would then be a good choice as you don't need to spend a lot of money to get a ship that will do most of what you would want of it to have a lot of different kinds of fun.
Mostly just agreeing with the original statement that it's good starter and that it's versatility is it's strength.
 

Pander

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Ok i think you are referring to the kodiak shuttle? and yes i have to agree the kodiak is ideal to get troops on and of in mass effect..
But unlike the 300 series of ships the kodiak does not have a small lader that people will have to climb before they can get in.

That ladder is going to gimp you in your deployment, especially how the buttons currently work in game.. i just dont see a handfull of people trying to get up that thing when time is of the essence.
This is true the ladder would be a pain but you don't even need to use it. The 300 would never go into a landing mode just open the door and jump out. This issue should also be sorted in the 300 series rework I doubt they will keep the giant wheels and ladder for it as it just makes it look silly imo. I think after rework it will be really good
 

NaffNaffBobFace

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This is true the ladder would be a pain but you don't even need to use it. The 300 would never go into a landing mode just open the door and jump out. This issue should also be sorted in the 300 series rework I doubt they will keep the giant wheels and ladder for it as it just makes it look silly imo. I think after rework it will be really good
I like being able to walk under my ship without ducking. The landing gear mean it'll be able to take a rougher landing and be able to touch down on more uneven terrain without grounding too.
 

FZD

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That means that every single ship in the game can function as a drop ship. An avenger could deliver a section. A connie could drop an entire platoon. A carrack could drop a battalion and so on. If you consider drop ships measured at their current capacity of standing room only, things get stupid real quick.
Heavy drop ships Ursa rover possible tanks and dragonflies (I would use these for landing on planet fortification to
Starfarer
Connie
Polaris
Carrack
Catapillar possibly

And we still have more ships coming
Bengal is the best dropship, you can probably fit our entire Org in it, and a few dozen Ursa rovers and a couple of firefly bike-gangs to top it off.
 

agathon_orti

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agathon orti
CR has been very clear you will not be able to fly ships that have more people on board than they are rated for, so you can't use a Lancer for a boarding ship. You need a ship designed for that purpose.
Not trying to be a dick but do you have a source?
Because if what you say is true than ships like the redeemer, 890jump, prowler and many other ships are useless and a huge waste of time and resources.
 

marcsand2

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CR has been very clear you will not be able to fly ships that have more people on board than they are rated for, so you can't use a Lancer for a boarding ship. You need a ship designed for that purpose.
I can imagine that this will be true, right now in Alpha you always wear a flight suit, have unlimited oxygen, but a ship has limited life support and your flight suit can't support you forever.
Because if what you say is true than ships like the redeemer, 890jump, prowler and many other ships are useless and a huge waste of time and resources.
The Redeemer and Prowler are intended to be dropships so I guess sufficient life support will be provided for the "cargo".
 

agathon_orti

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agathon orti
I can imagine that this will be true, right now in Alpha you always wear a flight suit, have unlimited oxygen, but a ship has limited life support and your flight suit can't support you forever.

The Redeemer and Prowler are intended to be dropships so I guess sufficient life support will be provided for the "cargo".
yeah it makes sense that eva suits have limited fuel and air, but ships should have a life support system that can provide enough air for your crew and a few passengers and replanish the air that gets lost during a vent, controlled or uncontrolled. atleast for a short trip.

@edit: a word
 

FZD

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I can imagine that this will be true, right now in Alpha you always wear a flight suit, have unlimited oxygen, but a ship has limited life support and your flight suit can't support you forever.

The Redeemer and Prowler are intended to be dropships so I guess sufficient life support will be provided for the "cargo".
With all the modules and additional equipment for the ships being designed, some additional life-support equipment could very well be an option tho. So you could, perhaps, retrofit a freelancer to fly few passengers or whatnot.
 

marcsand2

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yeah it makes sense that eva suits have limited fuel and air, but ships should have a life support system that can provide enough air for your crew and a few passengers and replanish the air that gets lost during a vent, controlled or uncontrolled. atleast for a short trip.

@edit: a word
Yup, completely true, but it depends on the capacity of the life support and how long the trip takes. I don't know how long it takes one person to use all oxygen in a ship. Divide that time with the amount of people aboard. Life support must have enough capacity to replenish the used oxygen of every person aboard, otherwise your trip would be limited by the time it takes to use all oxygen by persons not supported by life support.
This can be a calculated time or limit the people that can go aboard by the life support system. Time will tell what the choice of CIG will be.

I forgot that the 890jump is a passenger ship. Off course the life support system will support the crew and the number of passengers which is specified by the life support.

With all the modules and additional equipment for the ships being designed, some additional life-support equipment could very well be an option tho. So you could, perhaps, retrofit a freelancer to fly few passengers or whatnot.
Yup, it all comes down on the capacity and if you can expand that capacity, then more people can be supported.

Just use a passenger liner as a dropship then, surely that would have sufficient life support (if nothing else).
The advantage of a dropship above a passenger ship is armor, protection and fast exit under fire.
 

I_MIKE_I

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The main issue I have with the Avenger is that it's nose-gun is fixed, meaning you can't change it for another one and it's a Ballistic one, which seriously hinders it's ability to provide close air support, as you'd prefer a energy weapon in this role.

If you want a small Dropship for pocket money, I'd suggest looking at the Reliant Tana.. even tough the Reliant by itself isn't a great design.

I think a Constellation Taurus would also be viable as a Dropship, as you could rapidly deploy a lot of Soldiers even in Titan Armor and the 2x S4 Turret would be great for providing support.

However, going by artwork and description, the best Dropship so far would most likely be the Banu Merchantman.
 

marcsand2

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The main issue I have with the Avenger is that it's nose-gun is fixed, meaning you can't change it for another one and it's a Ballistic one, which seriously hinders it's ability to provide close air support, as you'd prefer a energy weapon in this role.
Yeap, that nose-gun is its advantage in dogfight and its disadvantage in air support.
 
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