How essential is base building to you?

Aleph0Null

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Then I saw “a new plant and a new city,” I saw the Yellow City. And I heard a loud voice saying "Look! they offering free beer! and there will be no more agony, for you came to TEST City"

I have a humble dream, to have a nice 3-floors home and green lawn and red mushrooms, and an Idris-M parked in the back. and live with my the Gent's and lads of TEST. in TEST City (precisely New New York)
 

NaffNaffBobFace

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I´d love to own a bar or a store in the Verse. I would really enjoy that :slight_smile:
But lets see, maybe CIG will sell Stores/Places when fresh money is needed
If my memory serves the BMM is going to have a marketplace system, and i believe the Caterpillar is supposed to get some kind of store module...?
 

DirectorGunner

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We need to combine our forces and create a base the size of the death star shaped like a penis and we could try to navigate it through a jump point for hilarity.
-Scotty, we need more thrust!
-Captain, I'm giving it all we've got!
 

maynard

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May 20, 2014
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a couple of thoughts...
what the hell, let's call it what it is, a Wall O'Text...

I'm not gonna shell out for the parts to build a capable gaming rig just to have a glorified, CGI-enhanced versin of Discord. I tried that in 2005 - it was called Second Life. Cool, but not compelling over the long haul. Today SL has half as many active users as SC has backers for its Alpha. I don't intend to spend my UEE Credits for a living room with a view for my space friends to hang out in.

If this game is going to be epic, it needs to be about empire building and competing for resources. Empires are founded on trade, so if we are going to build, what we build has to have economic purpose: refining raw materials, or manufacturing, or trading. CGI has shown us what bases will look like, but not how they will benefit us.

And the return on investment has to be high enough to offset the risk of our competitors destroying what we make. Nothing we build will be guaranteed to be there from one gaming session to the next. The only safe places we have are our hangars or the bunks of our ships.

Eve Online faced the same problem of incentivising investment, and came up with Sovereignty mechanics to persist control of space and assets. Every version of which has been a kludge with weird, boring gameplay to attack or defend Sovereign space. CGI has not even begun to think about that issue. Until they do, they might as well call the game Crafting In Safe Space, because that's all that's going to happen.

The reason I stopped buying ships two years ago is because of my [CONCERN] that with an economy 90% driven by NPCs rather than players, the game will lack the conflict drivers it needs to become epic.

Eve may suffer from an outdated code base and shitty game mechanics, but within those constraints the players' scope to affect their universe is virtually limitless. I will be sorely disappointed if SC doesn't evolve in that direction.
 
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Gabgrave

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Nov 22, 2016
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I'm pretty sure CGI will want to keep their hands on the base building thing, in order to control it. If test is allowed to build our own bases without limits, soon people will build rocket engines the size of mountains and a super laser tapped to all our Javelins, and CIG will be heard to say 'That's no moon...'
 

Michael

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Sep 27, 2016
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a couple of thoughts...
what the hell, let's call it what it is, a Wall O'Text...

I'm not gonna shell out for the parts to build a capable gaming rig just to have a glorified, CGI-enhanced versin of Discord. I tried that in 2005 - it was called Second Life. Cool, but not compelling over the long haul. Today SL has half as many active users as SC has backers for its Alpha. I don't intend to spend my UEE Credits for a living room with a view for my space friends to hang out in.

If this game is going to be epic, it needs to be about empire building and competing for resources. Empires are founded on trade, so if we are going to build, what we build has to have economic purpose: refining raw materials, or manufacturing, or trading. CGI has shown us what bases will look like, but not how they will benefit us.

And the return on investment has to be high enough to offset the risk of our competitors destroying what we make. Nothing we build will be guaranteed to be there from one gaming session to the next. The only safe places we have are our hangars or the bunks of our ships.

Eve Online faced the same problem of incentivising investment, and came up with Sovereignty mechanics to persist control of space and assets. Every version of which has been a kludge with weird, boring gameplay to attack or defend Sovereign space. CGI has not even begun to think about that issue. Until they do, they might as well call the game Crafting In Safe Space, because that's all that's going to happen.

The reason I stopped buying ships two years ago is because of my [CONCERN] that with an economy 90% driven by NPCs rather than players, the game will lack the conflict drivers it needs to become epic.

Eve may suffer from an outdated code base and shitty game mechanics, but within those constraints the players' scope to affect their universe is virtually limitless. I will be sorely disappointed if SC doesn't evolve in that direction.
Eve just hast some major problems (Imho)
- No real money sink. The last time I played more and more money has been driven into to system by incursions, mission running etc. And that's what we see a lot of inflation. What the price for a Plex today? When I left 4 or 5 years ago we have been at ~300-400 Mio.
- Null sec was too easy to defend. So you have no fuel cost and you can almost instantly hot drop with your hole fleet on every enemy. (The most know that it's not that easy but you know what I mean)

So that's probably what CIG wants to do better with their 90% NPC driven universe. If it is so we will see.
 

Bruttle

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Eve Online faced the same problem of incentivising investment, and came up with Sovereignty mechanics to persist control of space and assets. Every version of which has been a kludge with weird, boring gameplay to attack or defend Sovereign space. CGI has not even begun to think about that issue. Until they do, they might as well call the game Crafting In Safe Space, because that's all that's going to happen.

The reason I stopped buying ships two years ago is because of my [CONCERN] that with an economy 90% driven by NPCs rather than players, the game will lack the conflict drivers it needs to become epic.
I've had similar concerns, but they haven't become too serious just yet. That's mainly because CIG hasn't jumped down that rabbit hole yet. I can only hope they conduct enough research into how other games have either succeeded or failed on this front. I'm with you. I think this is vitally important to the game's success.

The problem is finding a way to generate risk vs reward. That's further compounded by the need to prevent large groups from being able to seize control over these rewards while eliminating all the risk. I've seen that in far too many MMOs. Large zerg guilds can take advantage of risk vs reward systems and gain an unprecedented advantage through numbers. This usually allows that group to gain a financial advantage which turns into a equipment advantage. The gap created there is difficult to recover from for a game.

The reasons for players to be in every corner of the game, can't be entirely profit based though. Even with a robust economy, there is eventually a "meta" for making money. Certain routes and goods will be industry standard while others are rarely touched due to either a lack of profitability or too high of difficulty. These can be made to fluctuate and incentivize players to spread out, but inevitably there will be some areas that simply aren't populated.

That's where I think player base building can make a huge difference. Whether the bases are created for crafting, processing, shipping, or just a good location for staging profitable operations, I think base building can really spread out the population. Years down the line, you don't want players to think it's a dead game simply because everyone is crowded in the "high level" areas. You want the game universe to feel alive. You can't do that with NPCs alone. There needs to be players everywhere.

This can also generate player conflict. I would love to see base raiding in the game. Imagine spending days monitoring a weathy org's base. You spend the time to find out when the majority of their players are offline. Inevitably, there would need to be automated defenses and NPC guards, but they already have those systems in the works.

So, you catch the org with only one player online and in the base. You know from a few test runs, that it takes about 10 minutes for them to reach out in the real world with spectrum and get reinforcements to log in. So, you blast in, overwhelm the npc's and the one player, and load up all the cargo they have staged at that base. Then, you jump out of the system just as a dozen of their org mates log in. They're pissed but you got the loot.

I want to see this happen. I think it could be both fun and good for the population.
 

Bigcracker

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They will be nice to blow up. I rather just make my home in space and hopefully since they are having houses being built on planets they wont forget about being able to build a space station or making my home on a ship. My only concern with base building is that a thought in the back of my mind keeps popping up that please Star citizen dont be a survival game with only 30-40 people per server instance so people can have housing.
 

Bruttle

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My only concern with base building is that a thought in the back of my mind keeps popping up that please Star citizen dont be a survival game with only 30-40 people per server instance so people can have housing.
I'm with you 100%. This has to be an MMO. That's a MASSIVELY multiplayer online game. 30-40 people just won't cut it. It won't cut it at all. This game needs to be epic. For that to happen, the battles need to be epic too. And as far as a survival game? I swear, if I have to punch a tree even once...
 

Thalstan

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I think there is too much unknown about the game to start talking about bases. I see and respect your vision, and I hope you are able to bring it to fruition. However, I also want the game to play. I want to be able to mine, explore, repair, or reclaim. I want to help crew people's ships or fly along side them so that we can accomplish bigger things. These are the things I backed for. That said, if they want to add in your vision, I support that. What I don't want is for the game to constantly be in Alpha, but instead, I want to see it released so that what we do matters. Then, let's see what they can add.
 

Bruttle

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I think there is too much unknown about the game to start talking about bases. I see and respect your vision, and I hope you are able to bring it to fruition. However, I also want the game to play. I want to be able to mine, explore, repair, or reclaim. I want to help crew people's ships or fly along side them so that we can accomplish bigger things. These are the things I backed for. That said, if they want to add in your vision, I support that. What I don't want is for the game to constantly be in Alpha, but instead, I want to see it released so that what we do matters. Then, let's see what they can add.
I neither expect, or want a system like this at the beginning of the game. Something like this would be enough substance for an entire post release patch, something like SC patch 6.0 or something. I'm with you in thinking they have more than their hands full just releasing the features they currently have.

For release, I would be extremely happy with the ability to embed a hanger in an asteroid. That should be easy enough in theory. The selection of hangers they have now should suffice for variety at the point of release. We can, of course, generate further customization by all the "hanger flair" and the system they have currently in place for that.

To be honest, they could build on the current system and it would still be enough to make me happy. Later on in patches, they can release larger and larger hangers and allow those hangers to be placed as player owned property across the universe. Settling down and building a home ties you to the game. It's just like the real world in that regard. You feel connected to the history of the area when you own a piece of the landscape. At least, I do.

Take Archeage for instance. When the game released, there was a sense of ownership and pride when a player owned their own house. Space for home ownership was limited, so players felt that they had something special or rare when they did own a spot. It generated both conflict and commerce. It also kept players active in all the zones. I felt that was particularly genius. Usually players only congregate at end level locations. With player housing in starting zones though, new players were first introduced to active areas instead of ghost towns. It made the entire game feel more alive.

So at the beginning, dropping your hanger in a spot would be more than sufficient. I think they will have at least that at the beginning. They've talked about it enough for me to be fairly confident in that. I just really want them to expand on that later.
 

Talonsbane

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We need to combine our forces and create a base the size of the death star shaped like a penis and we could try to navigate it through a jump point for hilarity.
If we did this, then would we also periodically fire off our loads of Auroras in short bursts from the tip that we would store in the base hangers?
 
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