Debate Youtube Channel [Please Help]

Jagarot

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DISCLAIMER: I am aware that Test Squadron is not an advertisement platform for my media or anything I create

CONTENT: I have just watched Montoya's video about SidAlpha and Sidalpha's response to his video. I feel like this format of back and forth edited videos creates an environment where people who don't really know much about star citizen are made to feel like it's a conversation they should stick away from.

(This is not to say Montoya or Sidalpha were toxic in any way)

I would like to create a live conversation channel where I record and talk to people from both sides of the spectrum (see what I did there) can talk about the issue in a format that gives people a reasonable view of both sides.

With that said, I would like some help in putting together a computer rig to make these videos. I need advice on software and hareware

I currently have a 3.2 gigahertz processor and a 950 graphics card and I am not confident these will be able to perform at an acceptable standard for recording.
 

Montoya

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talk about the issue in a format that gives people a reasonable view of both sides.
Nope.

False equivalency.

Want some other great ideas along the same lines?

On the left is a flat earther, and on the right is Neil Degrasse Tyson!

Let's debate reasonable points from both sides so viewers can decide!

Let me be honest with you, at this stage of development, SC looks very sketchy to people from outside. We can't blame them.

CR promised us a game in 2015, then 2016 and SQ42. Now its 2018... where is the game? And we are at $200M funded!

It looks terrible from the outside.

Guys like Yongyea and SydAlpha have the widely held opinion that something is very wrong. The game is way overbudget, bloated and seemingly progressing at a snails pace.

They are not wrong.

But calling it a scam... that is different

That is implying that all this was done intentionally as a way to extract money from innocent gamers falling for the hype.

I have a magical solution though. Time.

Give this another 6-9 months. Lets get that mystical performance bump in 3.3 or 3.4 or when ever they can make it happen.

Lets get 2-3 more landing zones like Hurston and ArcCorp.

Then lets slap down those detractors once there is actually something more substantial than the very limited excuse for a PU we have at the moment.
 

Jagarot

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Thanks for the quick and thoughtful response Montoya.

I honestly don't think Star Citizen looks sketchy from the outside or that its progressing at a snails pace.

I also don't want to slap down detractors, I want to make the Star Citizen conversation something people can get into.

I appreciate the advice and will take it into consideration.
 
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DirectorGunner

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False equivalency.
Color me impressed and educated, most definitely both sides are not equal!
The "scam" argument has always been incorrect.
Mismanagement/wasted resources, yea I can see an argument for that.
Feature creep, yea I can see an argument for that..
lack of thorough foresight and planned community engagement.. yea I can see that...

A whole lot of headaches could have been avoided had very thorough thinking and planning been done and decided upon before acting on.. because they've changed so much, not only the pledges but especially the game systems. This is why people call it a "pipe dream" and reach that assumption fallaciously but regardless, they correlate the action of feature creek and lack of stable predictable decision making with being somehow not possible to complete. These two may be correlated but it is not causation.
Anyway... manipulative people will take advantage of ignorant people and spin up a scam story for views and attention. I've yet to see a video game based "scam" video of a massive triple A sized title that's a legit scam. Gambling and exploitation sure.. but scam no.
It's like it's a keyword or something that people go nuts over.
 
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NaffNaffBobFace

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What keeps getting up my arse about current detractors is they either:

A) Spout theory as fact, saying stuff like:

"The $27,000 Legotits package is a clear example of greed! Only a developer bent on squeezing every penny out of it's invested player-base would stoop to such a thing!"

The above was swept away by the fact some backers had politely asked for the package or there would have been no need for it. When a party spouts theory as fact, just ask them to substantiate their claim and if possible provide proof to the contrary. Nothing kills this faster than simple, undeniable, set-in-stone facts - but it's still annoying as all balls when they reach 100k people with falsities and you only reach 8k with corrections.

These are easier to deal with as you can provide a proven counterpoint.

or...

B) When burnt with facts some detractors may then continue with the same line, but say:

"If X, then that means Y, so you should be concerned because Z"...

Thats their opinion and they are entitled to it, everyone is, but unlike Joe Bloggs spouting his opinion down the pub these people have a sizable following and are opinion leaders, they are influencers. So what "if" X isn't the case, opinion leader? What does that mean about Y? What Z should I think then? You didn't cover that eventuality so i'm just going to think about what you did cover in depth, the "if" scenario.

By only putting the one thought in an audiences head and telling them they should feel a certain way about it, they may as well be making the same base statements as fact. "You trust me, you like me, I've never steered you wrong before - why would I be wrong now?" More often than not it will be on a subject that no once can substantiate in one direction or another, avoiding the effects previously explored in example a) and basically leaving it in limbo until it either happens as specifically outlined or more generally doesn't happen (Remember the "X means Y so it'll collapse in 90 days!" thing years ago...?).

They may as well say "If an extinction level asteroid strike occurs that means at best civilization will crumble and at worst the whole human species will be wiped out, so you should be concerned about that in respect to this game and how it progresses." Well, yes, thats true, if humans as a species are all killed that will effect the progress of the game. IF. Care to substantiate? Is there a sizeable space-rock on the way and that it will strike in the next five to ten years? Well no one knows. The claim sounds plausible - it may even be true. But is it? They don't know. You don't know.

The Ifs and Shoulds do promoters of the project just as big a disservice as the detractors spouting their theory as truth, but with the advantage for them of being able to put the act of investigation and finding proof back on those questioning them:
"We are going to start a rumor, get people saying Politician X slept with a pig once"
"Woah, sick fuck! Did he?!"
"Pffft I dunno - but watch the bastard try to deny it!"
Get enough people all saying the same rumor and it stops being "Maybe" and starts being "Probably".

All we can really respond to an opinion leader giving out a theory like that is say "If..." and let people make up their own minds, or try to convince people that although Yes, the opinion giver may be right... they may also be wrong...

Or perhaps a better way to respond is to say "Well, you say If X means Y then Z... But what if X mean K? What then...?" Mmmmm, one to think about.

If you find a way to be able to counter an if opinion giver then your debate channel might do okay, but if you've ever seen any late-night TV debate shows, you'll know it usually descends into everyone acting like children demanding that their point of view is the right one.

Nothing good can come from mass-debating.

And thats what twists my tits on a Sunday Morning. How are you?
 
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NaffNaffBobFace

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I've yet to see a video game based "scam" video of a massive triple A sized title that's a legit scam. Gambling and exploitation sure.. but scam no.

Quote from the lecture: "People are good at forming patterns and good at self deception" taken from the book Quest for the Golden Hare by Bamber Gascoine - Pretty relevant for some detractor theories ;)

:slight_smile:
 
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DirectorGunner

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Quote from the lecture: "People are good at forming patterns and good at self deception" taken from the book Quest for the Golden Hare by Bamber Gascoine - Pretty relevant for some detractor theories ;)

:slight_smile:
I actually watched this whole damn video which could have been presented in 5 fing minutes.. what a waste of time!
Well couple things here, that game was not a AAA title, but it did prey on the gullibility of people and fans of the book for the 1st "game", and by the 2nd "game' people caught on. It was a colossal scam. And... the presenter .. of that video... grrrrr.
 

Printimus

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You know what DOES look sketchy? My wife finding out that I have dumped a couple thousand dollars (over a span of a couple of years) on a video game. She knows nothing other than it is a video game being made (not even a finished product yet) and that I have spent WAY too much on it. lol
 

NaffNaffBobFace

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I actually watched this whole damn video which could have been presented in 5 fing minutes.. what a waste of time!
Well couple things here, that game was not a AAA title, but it did prey on the gullibility of people and fans of the book for the 1st "game", and by the 2nd "game' people caught on. It was a colossal scam. And... the presenter .. of that video... grrrrr.
Thanks for watching - yes, it could have been shorter but it was a recording of a lecture, not a video made specifically for the YouTube demographic which is sadly a thing now.

As everything context is key - In 1970's UK, for a game to be £9 and released on every platform of its day, a rarity, it was most certainly a AAA title and almost certainly a scam :slight_smile:

Incedentally, to give the presenter some credence, he has acted alongside Warick Davis:

 
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DirectorGunner

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As everything context is key - In 1970's UK, for a game to be £9 and released on every platform of its day, a rarity, it was most certainly a AAA title
Oh my friend....
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/AAA_(video_game_industry)

Flappybird is not a AAA title.. you may ask why?
Development and marketing costs are not AAA.
Same for Angry Birds.

If I wipe my ass, scan it, put it through an algorithm that I developed over a weekend, and it gave birth to the most popular game since Minecraft...
Doesn't mean it's a AAA title.

The AAA term is not a sales "ranking" like platinum for a record album.. it's about the costs of development and marketing.

Much like "tent pole" films from Distribution studios, it's your largest budget movie in a slate that you believe will pull in the most money, hence why you alot it the most funds compared to the other films in the slate.
 

Vavrik

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You know what DOES look sketchy? My wife finding out that I have dumped a couple thousand dollars (over a span of a couple of years) on a video game. She knows nothing other than it is a video game being made (not even a finished product yet) and that I have spent WAY too much on it. lol
Welcome to Married Life(tm). The only thing that saved my ass when my wife found out what I've spent supporting SC, was that she was sitting among thousands of dollars of hobby supplies that we've bought for her over the years. I can have a hobby too!
 

Vavrik

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I have a question for anyone who thinks Star Citizen is taking **too long** to release. I realize it's been long, it's been 6 years. That seems like a long time. But the question is, if you think it's been too long, what is your benchmark, what are you comparing "too long" to?
 
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Montoya

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The "scam" argument has always been incorrect.
Mismanagement/wasted resources, yea I can see an argument for that.
Feature creep, yea I can see an argument for that..
lack of thorough foresight and planned community engagement.. yea I can see that...
Exactly.

Arguing for Star Citizen has always been the difficult side, but one advantage is that our side grows stronger with time, while the detractors have an ever weakening position. They know it, which is why their shrill cries will only get louder and louder.
 

orac_zen

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Damit, y'all just made me look up the definition of detractors...

The detractors are making there videos to get views. Why? Because Star Citizen is so controversial. I strongly believe all of them will change there stance once they see a finished product.

I like your idea about the video debates. I believe it will bring an audience, but if you do it make sure you continue until SC is fully released. Give the game a fighting chance or else your just killing a kid before it is born!
 
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Montoya

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I like your idea about the video debates. I believe it will bring an audience,
Yeah, a really lovely audience that will tell you to go kill yourself, send you daily threats of physical violence, accuse you of being part of an orchestrated scam and all the lovely things those unhinged haters are sending me on a daily basis.

Enjoy!
 

orac_zen

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Yeah, a really lovely audience that will tell you to go kill yourself, send you daily threats of physical violence, accuse you of being part of an orchestrated scam and all the lovely things those unhinged haters are sending me on a daily basis.

Enjoy!
I wouldn't do it... :-)
 

NaffNaffBobFace

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Oh my friend....
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/AAA_(video_game_industry)

Flappybird is not a AAA title.. you may ask why?
Development and marketing costs are not AAA.
Same for Angry Birds.

If I wipe my ass, scan it, put it through an algorithm that I developed over a weekend, and it gave birth to the most popular game since Minecraft...
Doesn't mean it's a AAA title.

The AAA term is not a sales "ranking" like platinum for a record album.. it's about the costs of development and marketing.

Much like "tent pole" films from Distribution studios, it's your largest budget movie in a slate that you believe will pull in the most money, hence why you alot it the most funds compared to the other films in the slate.
Well, can't argue with that :)
 

Michael

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Yeah, a really lovely audience that will tell you to go kill yourself, send you daily threats of physical violence, accuse you of being part of an orchestrated scam and all the lovely things those unhinged haters are sending me on a daily basis.

Enjoy!
I had a really good discussion with one of them.
Tldr:
in the end its all about faith.
Do you trust CR or don't you trust CR to finish the game
(So actually they are a little bit right, we are some kind of "cult". We are some kind of religion and the other part is some kind of religion and cult too)

BTT:

I think first step is some kind of factual spread sheet. You can't argue without facts. So what i think is

development history
what has been done when and why

CRs history (as a manager and producer)
his failures and successes

feature creep
when have been things announced or not

broken promises
pretty self explanatory i guess

efficiency

and so on
 

NaffNaffBobFace

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I had a really good discussion with one of them.
Tldr:
in the end its all about faith.
Do you trust CR or don't you trust CR to finish the game
(So actually they are a little bit right, we are some kind of "cult". We are some kind of religion and the other part is some kind of religion and cult too)

BTT:

I think first step is some kind of factual spread sheet. You can't argue without facts. So what i think is

development history
what has been done when and why

CRs history (as a manager and producer)
his failures and successes

feature creep
when have been things announced or not

broken promises
pretty self explanatory i guess

efficiency

and so on
A list of factual information could be very useful as facts cannot be denied, however a recent example I'd like to bring to note is the recent 600i launch in the 3.2 PTU. When those backers found it wasn't very swift all sorts of shit flew up the walls - which was resolved by the 600i finally being let off the chain with some awesome acceleration. A particular detractor linked a video and said: CIG video, 10 minutes 35seconds in, says: "It's definitely one of the fastest ships in the game":


So was that backer wrong? Nope that dev definitely said that. In the 600i case, it changed and became what they said it was to be and the ranting died down, but one need not go on spectrum to know there are many more examples. I myself have in the past posted the 300i series brochure and asked where my 350R cargo bay went...

If we can find some lines from the T's and C's or a CIG YouTube video where they just spell out, clearly, that everything in Alpha is subject to change, that'd be a very powerful thing to have in reserve in cases such as the above. I'd be like "But the brochure says!" and you'd be like "You ticked the box to say you understand it's an alpha and here is the YouTube video explaining it's all subject to change." and i'd be like "...b-but the brochure says!"

Oh really, NaffNaffBobFace? What else does the brochure say? Right on the last page, almost the last text on the document?

Disclaimer300i.png


Care to read it out loud so we can all hear?

-----

I think a lot of what people have found unappetizing is what have been described to me as "lies" on spectrum.

Over and over when I have spoken with them they have said "Dev X said Y and it didn't/won't happen! They promised, It's a broken promise and they lied to me!"

My most successful angle on this so far was:

At the time those devs said that and put it on Youtube as permanent record of development, it likely was the plan and they likely seriously believed that what they said was the truth and was what was going to be happening - they may even have worked on it a bit. But like the original Cutlass, it may have been found to be something that just didn't work in reality and had to change. If I were to put in a forum post that the Sky is Blue, and then later when you read the post you look out the window and the sky is black because time has passed and it is now night, does that mean I was a liar or just saying what was the case at the time?

Maybe I should go back to all of those 600i posts that say it's too slow and CIG lied to them and call them liars now the craft is fast enough? :wink:
 
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