135k aUEC/hour killing bad guys

[SoloFlyer]

This may seem silly, I haven't done this game loop yet, but is it possible to eject from your ship without blowing it up and still board the enemy ships? It sounds like the issue is with blowing up the starter ship, but ship boarding is supposed to be a thing, so leveling up to the nicer pirate ship seems like its reasonable for the short amount of time you use it

 

[Phil]

Exploits are not directly related to things wrong with a game. You can exploit a market, you can exploit AI, you can exploit a lot of things that have absolutely nothing to do with things that are wrong. Exploiting is just making full use of something by definition.

That is ONE very basic and bland definition of exploitation or exploit, read them all. That is not a fair and full assessment of the definition and doesn't apply to this discussion.

These two lines are directly taken from CIG Terms of Service.

*Interfere with the ability of others to enjoy playing a RSI Service or take actions that interfere with or materially increase the cost to provide a RSI Service for the enjoyment of all its users.

*Exploit errors in design, features which are not documented and/or bugs to gain access that would otherwise not be available to obtain any competitive advantage.

They are exactly what we are talking about, money is a huge advantage in this game (alpha aside, we all know its alpha, when testing an alpha you treat it as a finished product) and therefore this constitutes a violation of TOS, posting a youtube video directing people to exploit a known bug for monetary advance (advantage) he is violating the TOS and anyone who knowing;y participates in the exploit.

It was just released today that CIG will not reset the servers, but that they would reset or take action against players who abused exploits and had lots of in game money, again completely verifies the original discussion.

The reason CIG does not target most exploiters is because many initially do not know its an exploit till it happens or some just do it occasionally, its the major exploiters most companies will go after.

 

[Phil]

Except there is nothing broken about boarding an NPC ship. The thing people really feel oddly about is self destructing your own ship, based upon the notion that you'll simply get another.

News flash: Alpha is all based upon everyone getting replacement ships, so blowing yours up really is within acceptable practice--for everyone.

Are y'all aware that UEA ships are not going to include self destruct once we get to Beta? CIG put that in to enable specific kinds of testing, and it will be removed at Beta. So there is absolutely nothing exploitative about blowing up your own ship. Vanduul ships will include self destruct specifically so players cannot overly enrich themselves by capturing AI ships. CIG wants that test of courage to have the proper limits formed by real PC opponents. So far, from what CIG has said; the only instance where players may enrich themselves by capturing NPC ships could be with pirates, slavers, smugglers and The Outsiders. They have not yet been specific whether even this will be allowed, and the only reason there is a self destruct in game is becasue they don't want specialists boarding ships guarded only by NPCs, as that would truly screw the SC economy.

BTW, the ability to "rip skins" and kill yourself so you can respawn is also temporary. You will not be able to suicide in Beta. CIG knows that if there are no consequences to killing yourself or destroying your ship, pirates will have no reason to be, as they could never enrich themselves by capturing ships and cargo.

This has nothing to do with boarding an NPC ship, it has everything to do with the fact that no one on this planet would allow someone to self destruct their ship and then board it lol, that's the exploit, knowing the NPC's will stop targeting you as soon as you EVA out of your ship and it explodes, now if that was a real person do you honestly think you could board my ship via EVA and shoot me in the back of the head? Seriously? lol

 

[Shadow Reaper]

Well the reason he blew his own ship was that once that happens, the NPC pirates no longer sense a threat and power down. Who is to say a real person would not do the same?

I think y'all are making much of nothing. People blow or claim their own ships all the time. As stated above, they do it just to avoid flying return on any given mission. It's not like CIG doesn't know this, and they really don't care, yet that simple act shared by so many could just as easily be seen as violating the broadest interpretation of the principle being cited. Same with ripping skins, and I can't recall anyone complaining about that.

I think we just have people angry someone figured out something much more clever than grinding the normal way, but he is grinding in FPS, and there is merit in that too. Do keep in mind, this was designed as a team mission, needing good ships and several players to power through 20 armed men, and he did that alone. He deserves to earn more than a miner. He deserves a friggin' medal!

 

[NaffNaffBobFace]

That is ONE very basic and bland definition of exploitation or exploit, read them all. That is not a fair and full assessment of the definition and doesn't apply to this discussion.

These two lines are directly taken from CIG Terms of Service.

*Interfere with the ability of others to enjoy playing a RSI Service or take actions that interfere with or materially increase the cost to provide a RSI Service for the enjoyment of all its users.

*Exploit errors in design, features which are not documented and/or bugs to gain access that would otherwise not be available to obtain any competitive advantage.

They are exactly what we are talking about, money is a huge advantage in this game (alpha aside, we all know its alpha, when testing an alpha you treat it as a finished product) and therefore this constitutes a violation of TOS, posting a youtube video directing people to exploit a known bug for monetary advance (advantage) he is violating the TOS and anyone who knowing;y participates in the exploit.

It was just released today that CIG will not reset the servers, but that they would reset or take action against players who abused exploits and had lots of in game money, again completely verifies the original discussion.

The reason CIG does not target most exploiters is because many initially do not know its an exploit till it happens or some just do it occasionally, its the major exploiters most companies will go after.

So no one tries to do anything different through Alpha. When we get to release, the rest of the world comes along and finds these loopholes because everyone wants to play the game a little differently.

Alpha is exactly the time to be finding these and its exactly the time to see what the community will then do with it. I'm not saying you're wrong in regards to the terms, however the Devs also look at how people approach missions and mechanics and teak them accordingly.

Out of interest, I'd love to see a link to the no final wipe after Beta information - to this point I was under the impression there would be a final wipe at Betas end and the game would be reset after the huge stress-test that would be Operation Pitchfork where we all buggered off to Vandu'ul space and got our arses kicked.

 

[Phil]

So no one tries to do anything different through Alpha. When we get to release, the rest of the world comes along and finds these loopholes because everyone wants to play the game a little differently.

Alpha is exactly the time to be finding these and its exactly the time to see what the community will then do with it. I'm not saying you're wrong in regards to the terms, however the Devs also look at how people approach missions and mechanics and teak them accordingly.

Out of interest, I'd love to see a link to the no final wipe after Beta information - to this point I was under the impression there would be a final wipe at Betas end and the game would be reset after the huge stress-test that would be Operation Pitchfork where we all buggered off to Vandu'ul space and got our arses kicked.

Look I am not saying these people should be banned, I get it, its alpha, but lets get real here, if this were not alpha a finished product and people went out and did this mission 50 times in one day and made a ton of money they would be dealt with in some fashion as violating the terms of service, again not saying they would be banned but definitely warned and had actions taken. I have been playing online and in MMO's since Ultima Online, the original MMO, I have been involved in violating the terms of service multiple times, not even knowing I was doing it or having found an exploit ourselves.

Perfect example, early days in Vanilla World of Warcraft, before the Battleground system it was open world PvP, we had a guild over 200 people that came over from Dark Age of Camelot called Schizm on Thunderlord PvP server, anyone who knows DAOC knows its a heavy realm vs realm vs realm game built around large armies or zergs as we called them and most 8 man groups. Early in wow we ran small groups to Horde towns and camped and farmed other players, well we soon realized that the NPC guards did not patrol the top of their own towers where the blimps picked people up at Grom' Gol in Stranglethorn, there were only a handful of us yet we were able to farm 4x's as many people due to the funneling effect of the tower ramp, people coming off and on the blimp and no guards would attack us.

We were soon warned by Blizzard this was an exploit, it was made clear to us if we kept doing it, we would be dealt with, I imagine temporary bans of some sort, we had discovered and abuse an exploit we didn't even know existed, how were we to know the guards were not supposed to patrol the top of the tower? We kind of felt something was weird but again like you have said here, you just don't know.

That being said, my common sense tells me, that CIG did not design the A.I. to completely shut down because you ejected and blew up your ship, then sit there completely still, not even patrolling, let you EVA over to their unlocked ship, open the rear door, walk in and shoot them in the head, then take their ship and blow up the other one, if this is by design then it will never change and this is the final product, this is what you are saying? I guess we will find out, if this is designed this way, they wont fix or change anything right? Ok lets wait and see.

 

[Shadow Reaper]

I still can't agree. Watch the second vid in the original post. That guy did not self destruct and he cleared the mission with just 2 more minutes. That is less mission variation than caused by where the target spawns. Are we going to complain he makes too much money too? Somehow it's an exploit that FPS guys make more than traders and miners?

 

[NaffNaffBobFace]

Look I am not saying these people should be banned, I get it, its alpha, but lets get real here, if this were not alpha a finished product and people went out and did this mission 50 times in one day and made a ton of money they would be dealt with in some fashion as violating the terms of service, again not saying they would be banned but definitely warned and had actions taken. I have been playing online and in MMO's since Ultima Online, the original MMO, I have been involved in violating the terms of service multiple times, not even knowing I was doing it or having found an exploit ourselves.

Perfect example, early days in Vanilla World of Warcraft, before the Battleground system it was open world PvP, we had a guild over 200 people that came over from Dark Age of Camelot called Schizm on Thunderlord PvP server, anyone who knows DAOC knows its a heavy realm vs realm vs realm game built around large armies or zergs as we called them and most 8 man groups. Early in wow we ran small groups to Horde towns and camped and farmed other players, well we soon realized that the NPC guards did not patrol the top of their own towers where the blimps picked people up at Grom' Gol in Stranglethorn, there were only a handful of us yet we were able to farm 4x's as many people due to the funneling effect of the tower ramp, people coming off and on the blimp and no guards would attack us.

We were soon warned by Blizzard this was an exploit, it was made clear to us if we kept doing it, we would be dealt with, I imagine temporary bans of some sort, we had discovered and abuse an exploit we didn't even know existed, how were we to know the guards were not supposed to patrol the top of the tower? We kind of felt something was weird but again like you have said here, you just don't know.

That being said, my common sense tells me, that CIG did not design the A.I. to completely shut down because you ejected and blew up your ship, then sit there completely still, not even patrolling, let you EVA over to their unlocked ship, open the rear door, walk in and shoot them in the head, then take their ship and blow up the other one, if this is by design then it will never change and this is the final product, this is what you are saying? I guess we will find out, if this is designed this way, they wont fix or change anything right? Ok lets wait and see.

I definitely get your angle, if it were a finished game it would definitely be worthy of punishment if that were the games design.

"if this is by design then it will never change and this is the final product, this is what you are saying?"

Nope, my angle is it's likely they didn't know this happens just as Blizzard was probably not aware of the potential consequences of not having guards respond to that top floor area on the map (just because that was the original design intention that doesn't mean it was designed well), so if someone found the exploit in SC and kept quiet about it until game launch it'll be a heck of a lot harder to fix in live than in the partially built game.

Why did blizzard threaten to ban you rather than just fix the AI and patch it out? Likely a fix could have been months away if possible at all for whatever reason. Do you know if that ever got fixed? Can you still do that exploit? If not those guards were not missing that area intentionally and they blew smoke up your arse until they could fix it.

 

[vahadar]

Big guns are my only option... because I can't otherwise hit the side of a barn in-game :3
Love me that Demeco and that ballistic LMG. Spray and pray works in SC.

Yep exactly, since i am super skilled i am using this super tactic, no need to aim just spray. Just hope you have enough bullets hehe.

 

[DontTouchMyHoHos]

That is ONE very basic and bland definition of exploitation or exploit, read them all. That is not a fair and full assessment of the definition and doesn't apply to this discussion.

These two lines are directly taken from CIG Terms of Service.

*Interfere with the ability of others to enjoy playing a RSI Service or take actions that interfere with or materially increase the cost to provide a RSI Service for the enjoyment of all its users.

*Exploit errors in design, features which are not documented and/or bugs to gain access that would otherwise not be available to obtain any competitive advantage.

They are exactly what we are talking about, money is a huge advantage in this game (alpha aside, we all know its alpha, when testing an alpha you treat it as a finished product) and therefore this constitutes a violation of TOS, posting a youtube video directing people to exploit a known bug for monetary advance (advantage) he is violating the TOS and anyone who knowing;y participates in the exploit.

It was just released today that CIG will not reset the servers, but that they would reset or take action against players who abused exploits and had lots of in game money, again completely verifies the original discussion.

The reason CIG does not target most exploiters is because many initially do not know its an exploit till it happens or some just do it occasionally, its the major exploiters most companies will go after.

It is one basic definition, but exploiting covers a wide spectrum it is not only exploiting bugs. "an exploit is anything a player uses to manipulate or take advantage of a known bug or issue with the game " Exploiting encompasses more than just this. Which is what my post was directly replying to. Im not covering what the conversation as a whole it about, just adressing that exploits arent always about bugs or issues in the game. I.E. I can exploit a persons ignorance of resources to my advantage to make more money. Exploiting isnt inherently bad.

 

[Phil]

Look I am not here to judge these people, I am simply saying this to me constitutes an exploit, if some people(not necessarily these people) are repeatedly, excessively doing it over and over its a clear violation, period. I personally don't care about the people who didn't know about it or did it a few times because they couldn't do it without the glitch, but as a gamer and consumer I support the TOS and really dislike people who again I say EXCESSIVELY abuse a bug, glitch or an exploit for some sort of gain. That's all I am saying.

If CIG leaves this in the game, no changes then ok it was designed this way and that's fine, but I think most of us know the AI is wonky at best and doesn't work right and is NOT how the game was designed or meant to function, which by that definition would violate the TOS if CIG were to deem it was abused enough.

And this why CIG said they wont reset or wipe everyone's account but that they would target individuals who abused or exploited known bugs/glitches, its clear some people were abusing certain exploits. So yes, even in alpha the TOS applies. Now whether this specific mission was one that was abused we may not know for awhile, but again I will bet 100$ this mission as it stands will not remain as it is, the AI will be fixed and people will not be able to do this glitch forever, which means, it was not intended to work this way, which also means if people did this excessively then its an exploit.

 

[DontTouchMyHoHos]

Look I am not here to judge these people, I am simply saying this to me constitutes an exploit, if some people(not necessarily these people) are repeatedly, excessively doing it over and over its a clear violation, period. I personally don't care about the people who didn't know about it or did it a few times because they couldn't do it without the glitch, but as a gamer and consumer I support the TOS and really dislike people who again I say EXCESSIVELY abuse a bug, glitch or an exploit for some sort of gain. That's all I am saying.

If CIG leaves this in the game, no changes then ok it was designed this way and that's fine, but I think most of us know the AI is wonky at best and doesn't work right and is NOT how the game was designed or meant to function, which by that definition would violate the TOS if CIG were to deem it was abused enough.

And this why CIG said they wont reset or wipe everyone's account but that they would target individuals who abused or exploited known bugs/glitches, its clear some people were abusing certain exploits. So yes, even in alpha the TOS applies. Now whether this specific mission was one that was abused we may not know for awhile, but again I will bet 100$ this mission as it stands will not remain as it is, the AI will be fixed and people will not be able to do this glitch forever, which means, it was not intended to work this way, which also means if people did this excessively then its an exploit.

Yes, and my posts have nothing to do with what they are doing. Just that exploiting is not an all encompassing bug/issue exploiting. It contained nothing abut judging, them exploiting, or anything of that nature. Just making sure that you stating exploiting is always a bad thing isnt a thing.

 

[Shadow Reaper]

CIG is not going to do anything about it. When Cris explained how they would be either imposing a ceiling or robbing accounts of those who use exploits, he said "those wealthy players who have billions". This is still a grind to make millions, and nothing like what Chris was talking about. It is in fact competitive with the best trading, and it should be.

 

[Bambooza]

I completed this last night. Have to say using the Carrack solo is pretty cheese as the two cutlasses can't punch through its shields. Just jump in one of the side turrets and have fun. After completing the mission i spent extra time picking up all of the fallen guns and placing them in the weapons racks. Ya totally forgot they don't persist yet.

 

[BUTUZ]

I completed this last night. Have to say using the Carrack solo is pretty cheese as the two cutlasses can't punch through its shields. Just jump in one of the side turrets and have fun. After completing the mission i spent extra time picking up all of the fallen guns and placing them in the weapons racks. Ya totally forgot they don't persist yet.

they do if you equip them and then stow them.

 

[Bambooza]

they do if you equip them and then stow them.

They were equipped as that's how I was able to carry three back with me. It's not a big deal as I was not planning on using just trophies of the fallen.

 

[Shadow Reaper]

To save changes to a ship like your loadout so that you get it back if it’s destroyed, just leave it on a pad and call another ship. When the system stows your ship it will store the current configuration. It might also then store the weapons in the racks.

Certainly it’s worth trying. If you can do it it’s worth flying missions just for what you can loot. Is there a way to pick up armor?

 

[NaffNaffBobFace]

Is there a way to pick up armor?

Any armor that wasn't strong enough to stop the guy wearing it from being killed almost definitely isn't worth looting.

 

[Shadow Reaper]

The white armor on the security forces in the 890 mission looked to be heavy. And for myself, I would always choose light legs. I’m a scavenger. And we should be able to sell the stuff we pick up in beta, yes?

 

[Shadow Reaper]

. . .and you may find armor that allows you to pass diguised in certain scenarios. . .