Stone Cold Killer

[Shadow Reaper]

Here's the new 3.9 personal combat loadout calculator:

Star Citizen FPS data 3.9.0

docs.google.com

and the descriptions of the choices of weapon:

Category:Personal Weapons

starcitizen.tools

Just to remind, at 35 kg your speed goes from .90 to .85, and at 40 kg from .85 to .80. Worse than this speed reduction is the rate you burn your stamina or endurance, which when it depletes will make you crawl and your arms shake almost as badly as if you'd been shot in the arm. This is why I remind folks often to ignore the advise that you carry multiple weapons, and do like real soldiers do--just carry one, except unless you want to add a knife. (This also means you can pick up a couple weapons at the end of each mission, which amounts to a fair bit of cash.) Also note that any armor on your legs slows and tires you, so you'll want to keep that light as possible. Moving fast is the key to avoiding being shot by NPCs on missions, as all the best vids attest. NPCs can't hit fast moving targets.

Size 1 weapons are sidearms. Size 2 are sub-machine guns, the commonest choice but normally limited to 30 meters so not good outdoors. Size 3 are rifles, which have smaller mags and slower rate of fire, but a range to 50 meters and far less recoil than SMGs and LMGs. Size 4 are LMGs which canot be silenced but do the most damage--probably best saved for Vanduul. Size 5 are special use weapons. Silencing a weapon will stop NPC aggro on your position but at a cost of 8% damage.

 

[Shadow Reaper]

Shooting outdoors--you can see range affects damage as stated by the calculator, but not limited to the ranges in it:

View: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=MASry6SingI

 

[Montoya]

Just to remind, at 35 kg your speed goes from .90 to .85, and at 40 kg from .85 to .80. Worse than this speed reduction is the rate you burn your stamina or endurance, which when it depletes will make you crawl and your arms shake almost as badly as if you'd been shot in the arm.

This is great info!

 

[Lorddarthvik]

Here's the new 3.9 personal combat loadout calculator:

Star Citizen FPS data 3.9.0

docs.google.com

and the descriptions of the choices of weapon:

Category:Personal Weapons

starcitizen.tools

Just to remind, at 35 kg your speed goes from .90 to .85, and at 40 kg from .85 to .80. Worse than this speed reduction is the rate you burn your stamina or endurance, which when it depletes will make you crawl and your arms shake almost as badly as if you'd been shot in the arm. This is why I remind folks often to ignore the advise that you carry multiple weapons, and do like real soldiers do--just carry one, except unless you want to add a knife. (This also means you can pick up a couple weapons at the end of each mission, which amounts to a fair bit of cash.) Also note that any armor on your legs slows and tires you, so you'll want to keep that light as possible. Moving fast is the key to avoiding being shot by NPCs on missions, as all the best vids attest. NPCs can't hit fast moving targets.

Size 1 weapons are sidearms. Size 2 are sub-machine guns, the commonest choice but normally limited to 30 meters so not good outdoors. Size 3 are rifles, which have smaller mags and slower rate of fire, but a range to 50 meters and far less recoil than SMGs and LMGs. Size 4 are LMGs which canot be silenced but do the most damage--probably best saved for Vanduul. Size 5 are special use weapons. Silencing a weapon will stop NPC aggro on your position but at a cost of 8% damage.

Oh, so I shouldn't just strap gear on myself that looks the best?
All jokes aside, this is really great info! Thanks very much!

Btw, are there outdoor fps missions that necessitate the use of long range weapons? Talking PVE here. I've never seen one but would love to do some sniping ya know..

For fps missions so far, in my limited experience, I always used a gallant rifle, accurate, plenty of ammo, decent damage. Now I run with the burst fire smg. It's the lumin V I think. It's perfectly adequate for bounty missions in bunkers, might be too short range for kareah or the 890Jump mission.

 

[Mich Angel]

Great info @Shadow Reaper thanks

My only hope is that CIG don't make same mistake like most other games does when it come to suppressors(or silencer as called, that really don't silence so much IRL )

As in suppressors don't make bullet go slower actually it's the opposite, it increase the bullet speed not much but it does increase.
Increase speed of bullet as such also increase the hit range and amount of damage it does, as such it also stabilize the gun not much but enough to make it more accurate.

And last suppressors don't silence a shot very much, IRL a good high grade very expensive suppressors at the most 15-25% less bang so it is still a very loud bang.
how ever It does muffle the sound so it's not that clear but still a pretty good bang.

For games then, It's the physics most game get all wrong and backwards and that is just so stupid/silly IMO.
Sure in the end it's just a game so fine it can silence much more it's not IRL, I'm all good with that doesn't matter much.

But get the damn bullet physics right, I mean how hard can it be..

Reason high grade suppressors are not allowed to be owned by civilian in most countries is not cause they silence the gun,
it's cause it make the rifle/gun much more accurate and much more deadly and it does make it harder to pinpoint where shot came from.
Reason many countries don't allow suppressor for hunting is same reason it enhance the gun so it's to powerful and that fall under unethical hunting laws.

So I for one sure hope CIG get the bullet physic right at least, or using a suppressor is as in most game pointless.. But that's my opinion :D

CHEERS!

 

[Lorddarthvik]

Great info @Shadow Reaper thanks

My only hope is that CIG don't make same mistake like most other games does when it come to suppressors(or silencer as called, that really don't silence so much IRL )

As in suppressors don't make bullet go slower actually it's the opposite, it increase the bullet speed not much but it does increase.
Increase speed of bullet as such also increase the hit range and amount of damage it does, as such it also stabilize the gun not much but enough to make it more accurate.

And last suppressors don't silence a shot very much, IRL a good high grade very expensive suppressors at the most 15-25% less bang so it is still a very loud bang.
how ever It does muffle the sound so it's not that clear but still a pretty good bang.

For games then, It's the physics most game get all wrong and backwards and that is just so stupid/silly IMO.
Sure in the end it's just a game so fine it can silence much more it's not IRL, I'm all good with that doesn't matter much.

But get the damn bullet physics right, I mean how hard can it be..

Reason high grade suppressors are not allowed to be owned by civilian in most countries is not cause they silence the gun,
it's cause it make the rifle/gun much more accurate and much more deadly and it does make it harder to pinpoint where shot came from.
Reason many countries don't allow suppressor for hunting is same reason it enhance the gun so it's to powerful and that fall under unethical hunting laws.

So I for one sure hope CIG get the bullet physic right at least, or using a suppressor is as in most game pointless.. But that's my opinion :D

CHEERS!

While what you say about the physics is true, it gets a bit more complicated with subsonic vs. supersonic ammo, but not by much from a gameplay perspective. But there is a good reason to make suppressed guns less powerful in-game. It's for gameplay balance. You trade off damage for stealth. Otherwise it would just be overpowered, and everyone would be using a suppressor all the time anyways. Just like how in most games you always have a full new magazine when reloading, even if you reload after every shot. What's realistic, might not be as much fun. That's why Doom(2016) was such a huge hit. No reloading = much more faster fun.

Some games do add more accuracy when you put on a silencer, but still take away damage. I think that is a fair trade, even if not fully realistic. I'd be happy with that in Star Citizen as well.

I think countries don't allow suppressors for the same reason they don't allow certain type of guns and bulletproof vests for civillians. It's more a question of perception by the public, than realistic threat management. The general thinking is that you wouldn't need one unless you are a criminal.
This is ofc mostly incorrect, but the general public doesn't care about the details, they feel happy and safe when only the good guys are allowed to have all that "dangerous" stuff that they see the badguys use in movies.

 

[Mich Angel]

While what you say about the physics is true, it gets a bit more complicated with subsonic vs. supersonic ammo, but not by much from a gameplay perspective. But there is a good reason to make suppressed guns less powerful in-game. It's for gameplay balance. You trade off damage for stealth. Otherwise it would just be overpowered, and everyone would be using a suppressor all the time anyways. Just like how in most games you always have a full new magazine when reloading, even if you reload after every shot. What's realistic, might not be as much fun. That's why Doom(2016) was such a huge hit. No reloading = much more faster fun.

Some games do add more accuracy when you put on a silencer, but still take away damage. I think that is a fair trade, even if not fully realistic. I'd be happy with that in Star Citizen as well.

I think countries don't allow suppressors for the same reason they don't allow certain type of guns and bulletproof vests for civillians. It's more a question of perception by the public, than realistic threat management. The general thinking is that you wouldn't need one unless you are a criminal.
This is ofc mostly incorrect, but the general public doesn't care about the details, they feel happy and safe when only the good guys are allowed to have all that "dangerous" stuff that they see the badguys use in movies.

Good points, sure for game play reason I don't mind some trade off for balance as long it don't go to far.
Yeah of cause it is also a lot about public opinion and politics etc.., but I didn't want to go in to details and make it all to a political BS comment ha ha ha

CHEERS!

 

[AntiSqueaker]

I've always preferred light and mobile over heavy and loud personally. But once I stop getting 30k's every 5 minutes, I'd love to try out the new Caterpillar prisoner rescue mission and give the Ravager-212 a whirl in CQC! Ship boarding is just begging for heavy armor and some shotguns imo.

 

[Deroth]

Great info @Shadow Reaper thanks

My only hope is that CIG don't make same mistake like most other games does when it come to suppressors(or silencer as called, that really don't silence so much IRL )

As in suppressors don't make bullet go slower actually it's the opposite, it increase the bullet speed not much but it does increase.
Increase speed of bullet as such also increase the hit range and amount of damage it does, as such it also stabilize the gun not much but enough to make it more accurate.

And last suppressors don't silence a shot very much, IRL a good high grade very expensive suppressors at the most 15-25% less bang so it is still a very loud bang.
how ever It does muffle the sound so it's not that clear but still a pretty good bang.

For games then, It's the physics most game get all wrong and backwards and that is just so stupid/silly IMO.
Sure in the end it's just a game so fine it can silence much more it's not IRL, I'm all good with that doesn't matter much.

But get the damn bullet physics right, I mean how hard can it be..

Reason high grade suppressors are not allowed to be owned by civilian in most countries is not cause they silence the gun,
it's cause it make the rifle/gun much more accurate and much more deadly and it does make it harder to pinpoint where shot came from.
Reason many countries don't allow suppressor for hunting is same reason it enhance the gun so it's to powerful and that fall under unethical hunting laws.

So I for one sure hope CIG get the bullet physic right at least, or using a suppressor is as in most game pointless.. But that's my opinion :D

CHEERS!

The technical name is Suppressor or Gun Muffler, entertainment and news media didn't know what they were actually called so they called the Silencers...and the name stuck even though it is completely wrong.

ALL Suppressors reduce the velocity of the bullet (usually only about 100 fps for rifles and around 50 fps for handguns.) The lower the velocity and the further the bullet travels, the more it is susceptible to wind drift, so in a roundabout way reduced velocity impacts accuracy.
Due to the mass of Suppressors and barrel harmonics, Suppressors actually 'throw' bullets downward.
So between these two factors alone, a Suppressors makes a firearm less accurate.

There are actually a few European countries that have extremely strict restrictions on firearms but for a long time strongly encourage the use of a Suppressor on the grounds it is polite and reduces noise pollution (Example: UK.)

Here's the new 3.9 personal combat loadout calculator:

Star Citizen FPS data 3.9.0

docs.google.com

and the descriptions of the choices of weapon:

Category:Personal Weapons

starcitizen.tools

Just to remind, at 35 kg your speed goes from .90 to .85, and at 40 kg from .85 to .80. Worse than this speed reduction is the rate you burn your stamina or endurance, which when it depletes will make you crawl and your arms shake almost as badly as if you'd been shot in the arm. This is why I remind folks often to ignore the advise that you carry multiple weapons, and do like real soldiers do--just carry one, except unless you want to add a knife. (This also means you can pick up a couple weapons at the end of each mission, which amounts to a fair bit of cash.) Also note that any armor on your legs slows and tires you, so you'll want to keep that light as possible. Moving fast is the key to avoiding being shot by NPCs on missions, as all the best vids attest. NPCs can't hit fast moving targets.

Size 1 weapons are sidearms. Size 2 are sub-machine guns, the commonest choice but normally limited to 30 meters so not good outdoors. Size 3 are rifles, which have smaller mags and slower rate of fire, but a range to 50 meters and far less recoil than SMGs and LMGs. Size 4 are LMGs which canot be silenced but do the most damage--probably best saved for Vanduul. Size 5 are special use weapons. Silencing a weapon will stop NPC aggro on your position but at a cost of 8% damage.

The increased mass and higher rate of exhaustion also increases the dehydration rate, requiring drinking fluids more frequently.

 

[Shadow Reaper]

Btw, are there outdoor fps missions that necessitate the use of long range weapons?

Certainly that will develop. Off the top of my head I would recall the 890 Jump mission is often entered through the hangar bay. Some prefer to pick off as many NPCs as possible from outside first, and that is certainly best done from greater than 40 meters. From what I can tell, the only full range rifle that does not recoil the optics off target is the S71, but it is single shot. The shots can come very quickly, but it requirs a separate squeeze for each round. You can see how astonishingly accurate it is at time index 6:50 here:

View: https://youtu.be/OT71-kOyuYQ
The Gallant rifle seems to only recoil just slightly, as can be seen at time index 1:58. Without DPS info it's hard to say which is better.

There is a vid with just two weapons tested, that the reviewer has damage per shot and dps info, to the point he can tell one weapon needs 0.6s to kill with chest shot with one, and 1.0 with another, but I cannot find that info and the vid is 2 years old.

 

[Deroth]

The Caterpillar mission (The Price of Freedom?) also has the option to be able to snipe some of the security guards from outside (front of the ship and certain side doors.)

 

[Shadow Reaper]

Some other points to consider when building an FPS loadout:

Just because you're only carrying one weapon doesn't mean you can only carry one attachment. Attachments are very light, so especially if you're carrying a rifle, why not carry a low power optic for indoors and an 8 power for outside? Backpacks are not implemented yet, but I believe (someone please correct me if I'm wrong) you can carry the attachments on your person withoout special slots in the armor, unlike pens, tools, grenades and mags. Likewise, have a flashlight on, carry a flash hider, a compensator, and a suppressor so you can decide when you want what on. Sometimes you want to avoid aggro, sometimes it's a good thing as is the extra 8% damage.

If you wear all heavy armor save light legs, and carry just one weapon, you can carry 8 mags, 4 grenades, 2 medpens, 2 oxypens, 1 multitool with both cutting head and mining attachment, a Tigersclaw, 2 optics, 3 barrel attachments, and still have a 0.9 speed. That's pretty great. With a Gallant that's 480 rounds, and yeah, two empty weapon slots on your back to haul away loot.

Here is a great article with the differences between the three main types of assault; rifle. See the graphic at the end comparing damage.

[Top 5] Star Citizen Best Assault Rifles and How To Get Them

Space Ships aren't the only weapons in Star Citizen, you'll also need to arm yourself with the best Star Citizen assault rifles.

www.gamersdecide.com

 

[Cugino83]

Interesting tool, a bit uncomplete right now but something that is wort to keep an eye on it.
Al always for the "fps calculator-things" I still racomand to try the load out in the field: it could be the best loadout form the statistic, but if you can0t use it well is wortless.
Also this calculator doesn't take into account special caracteristic of weapon and armour, those need ot be field-tested.
For example, the use of the laser pointer: since SC doesnt have the center scree cross air a LAM is for me a must have for CQB mission since allow you to hip-shooting with extream accuracy and much faster then using the optics.

Btw, are there outdoor fps missions that necessitate the use of long range weapons? Talking PVE here. I've never seen one but would love to do some sniping ya know..

nothing right now, sadly... also there is some problem with the drowning distance, like peoople disappear around the 200m range, so long range sniping is still hard to come.
Hope in the future to have a rebalance of the weapon range and allow sniper rifle to really be long range weapon, up to 5-700m, that could open up different game scenarios and role in an FPS team.

For fps missions so far, in my limited experience, I always used a gallant rifle, accurate, plenty of ammo, decent damage. Now I run with the burst fire smg. It's the lumin V I think. It's perfectly adequate for bounty missions in bunkers, might be too short range for kareah or the 890Jump mission.

I don't like the Lumin V, to much recoil for my teste... I normally use the P4-AR, just for the convinience since is the most comon weapon used by pirate and you can loot it very easily...
For serius work I use the gallant too, also in CQB scenario: his bust mode is amazing and shoot 5 round at so hight speed that you have no recol, basically a Lumin V under steroid, wort try it if you have never.

 

[Mich Angel]

The technical name is Suppressor or Gun Muffler, entertainment and news media didn't know what they were actually called so they called the Silencers...and the name stuck even though it is completely wrong.

ALL Suppressors reduce the velocity of the bullet (usually only about 100 fps for rifles and around 50 fps for handguns.) The lower the velocity and the further the bullet travels, the more it is susceptible to wind drift, so in a roundabout way reduced velocity impacts accuracy.
Due to the mass of Suppressors and barrel harmonics, Suppressors actually 'throw' bullets downward.
So between these two factors alone, a Suppressors makes a firearm less accurate.

There are actually a few European countries that have extremely strict restrictions on firearms but for a long time strongly encourage the use of a Suppressor on the grounds it is polite and reduces noise pollution (Example: UK.)



The increased mass and higher rate of exhaustion also increases the dehydration rate, requiring drinking fluids more frequently.

Yeah ha ha.. Says Silencer = watches a lot of movies, says suppressor = watches a lot of gun videos..

BUT...!
I hope you where talking about game mechanics and if so that mechanic is based on Hollywood.
If not then you need to read up a lot on how suppressors really work IRL..

The compressed muzzle sound and pressure is captured and returned behind the bullet that's what suppress the sound but the pressure is raised.

And as such it will also increase pressure behind bullet even if that is insignificant small in some cases, depend a lot on what weapon and ammo type.
Suppressors also dampen recoil as of how they work, less recoil equal better stability as such more accurate.( the suppressor act as dampening weight on recoil )
( They do not add much noticeable weight to barrel that effect the bullet they are not made of cast iron. longer suppressor of cause add some weight but that it's insignificant )

Never the less a weapon with suppressor will be unchanged or increased in performance unless one is using a old crap suppressor from the 1940 - 80's.

SO in short suppressor mostly have little effect on weapons over all performance, but if there is any effect part from the suppressed sound it is a increase in performance not decease.
To say anything else and your info is wrong and...! ...."you need to do a update to latest patch"...

This might help you get up to date with suppressors

And this might give some insight in how they really work and what happen inside...
Acrylic covered suppressors to show inside how different suppressors work filmed with high speed cam.

Some more videos that will help update the info some of you have about suppressors, that is mostly based on Hollywood movies and they never got it right ever.
Not even the name ha ha....

So here is next patch update... :P

So there ya have it !
If suppressors have a impact it is increased performance or no change at all, part from sound level varies depend on suppressor.


CHEERS!

 

[c0sign]

Great info @Shadow Reaper thanks
And last suppressors don't silence a shot very much, IRL a good high grade very expensive suppressors at the most 15-25% less bang so it is still a very loud bang.
how ever It does muffle the sound so it's not that clear but still a pretty good bang.CHEERS!

Your suppressor is junk, I have an SDN6 that shoots 7.62, the different grain of ammo definitely plays a roll in how loud it is....but with the suppressor on it is 10x quieter, i can shoot all day with no ear protection and really the cycling of the bolt is the loudest part...i can slam a door louder then the riffle.....its a 10.5in barrel so theoretically its supposed to be louder too

 

[Lorddarthvik]

The technical name is Suppressor or Gun Muffler, entertainment and news media didn't know what they were actually called so they called the Silencers...and the name stuck even though it is completely wrong.

ALL Suppressors reduce the velocity of the bullet (usually only about 100 fps for rifles and around 50 fps for handguns.) The lower the velocity and the further the bullet travels, the more it is susceptible to wind drift, so in a roundabout way reduced velocity impacts accuracy.
Due to the mass of Suppressors and barrel harmonics, Suppressors actually 'throw' bullets downward.
So between these two factors alone, a Suppressors makes a firearm less accurate.

There are actually a few European countries that have extremely strict restrictions on firearms but for a long time strongly encourage the use of a Suppressor on the grounds it is polite and reduces noise pollution (Example: UK.)



The increased mass and higher rate of exhaustion also increases the dehydration rate, requiring drinking fluids more frequently.

In case @Mich Angel 's post wasn't enough, here's a small written study as well on velocity and accuracy. It basically says that all measurements are within measuring error range, thus the suppressors make little to no difference in this case, with one notable exception where it did make the bullet yaw less and thus slightly more accurate. It all depends on ammo, gun and suppressors design:

https://arxiv.org/pdf/1802.05748

Good point about exhaustion and hydration effects, it did feel like it made a difference when I removed all my armor and weapons while running in the desert!

 

[Mich Angel]

Your suppressor is junk, I have an SDN6 that shoots 7.62, the different grain of ammo definitely plays a roll in how loud it is....but with the suppressor on it is 10x quieter, i can shoot all day with no ear protection and really the cycling of the bolt is the loudest part...i can slam a door louder then the riffle.....its a 10.5in barrel so theoretically its supposed to be louder too

Ah! good catch ha ha, thank you.. :D
It's a ...Oh! Crap! A typo.. ha ha ha... should been 15-35% decrease ha ha ha...(not15-25%)

Which as you say indeed can make some suppressor, ammo and weapon type combo a lot less noisy and as such save your hearing.

Tho do understand multiple140db shot without ear protection will damage your hearing permanent and lower that to 130db feel like a lot more than it is but it's only 5%
and that make it a lot more bearable to use but how it feel and how it is are rarely the same with hearing and db, as db and hearing is not linear it's a bezier curve

So a 15% decrease is substantially noticeable while up to 35% will let you shoot the weapon all day long without hearing protection tho I would recommend having earbuds anyways.

CHEERS!

 

[c0sign]

Admittedly I don't always wear ear protection when shooting my riffles, depending on what we are doing. But, if i know we are taking other weapons (ie. pistols) I will always bring earpro, pistols in my opinion can be the loudest.

Edit: most of my riffles are suppressed or can use the same suppressor of another riffle. None of my pistols are suppressed...

 

[NaffNaffBobFace]

The Scourge is my personal side arm right now. Strangely, no one has bothered me enough to have to try it out on them.

 

[Shadow Reaper]

Your suppressor is junk. . .

If the gun is not appreciably quieter with a suppressor, odds are the ammo is not subsonic. In most gunshots, the bulk of the report is from the bullet going supersonic and leaving a shock wave. Suppressors don't help with that at all. So really they're only worth having if the ammo is subsonic, in which case they make a world of difference. BTW, most .45 ACP is subsonic, which is why people love to suppress that round. it's nice and heavy so still very effective when subsonic. In many instances it is the best round to suppress.

I agree with the above on the Gallant. Lots of vids confirm it is a great weapon across a wide set of circumstances. However, the vid that links the graphic comparing the three assault rifles was very telling and sent me back looking at different vids. The Karna weighs twice as much, and its ammo weighs 12X as much (three times the weight for 1/4 as many shots) but it has three modes: select, burst and charged. In charged mode it can take out any subject with a single head shot, or with a single burst to the chest. The Gallant cannot do either of these things. The Karna actually does twice the DPS at 5 meters and less, and close is when you really need quick kills (especially Vanduul which will cut you in half). Look again at the graphic. Even if it is suppressed and the Gallant is not, it will do more damage out to 40 meters, which is almost all indoor conflict. Certainly if you can mange the weight and decreased load, it is the best choice out to 47 meters. Beyond that I think I'd want a sniper rifle.

I have to say, I love the calculator because it tells me what to expect before I buy and test. For me the tradeoff is, if I want the DPS of the Karna, I'm gonna move at 0.85 instead of 0.9. You can't klnow how good a trade that is until you're running at 0.85, but at least I know what to look for in testing.