So, word on the street is that Keemstar has been demonetized, sent out a public apology and has been suspended for two weeks. The feud apparently got the attention of youtube and now certain creators are being cancelled because they are selectively enforcing their policy on harassment.
So again, they act like a publisher abusing it's powers with selectively applying their intentionally vague rules, meanwhile they enjoy the freedom from responsibility of being a platform...
This has to stop at one point. Make em choose!
I don't care if it's keemstar or joe28946 with 3 subscribers who gets banned, it's the way they get banned. The arbitrary rules and their arbitrary application by a "platform" that doesn't even have the right to do so is a worrying trend. Every day I keep wondering if my favorite WH40k lore tuber will be still up, or they deleted his channel cos he made a joke on another platform that goes against their ideology...
Also this whole "harassment" over the internet is laughable. Since when did the mighty humaans became such pussies? Back in my day, when people had spines in their backs still, there was a thing called personal responsibility. You made shit, you cleaned it up. If you did an oopsie, and you got "harassed" for it on the internetz, you either hid in a "dark corner" called the real world, or harassed their asses back to the stone age so they turned off their computers and went to the pub. Win-Win situation.
And the next day we all went to school/work back to life, and thats it.
Now they send the swat team because you put out a tweet saying "jimmy isa f gtt". It's ridiculous.
Dont fall into that trap. Keemstar did not get banned and hardly anybody gets banned unless they break some serious rules, like no porn.
Many channels I watched also said "THEY ARE TRYING TO SILENCE ME!!!" when in fact, all they did was not show ads on the channel.
He is free to say or do what ever he wants, he will simply not be monetized because the people who buy the ad space do not want their ads showing on his channel. He is not being banned!
Not laughable for the guy in Kansas three years ago. He was playing Call of Duty and got harassed and then doxxed which lead to a SWAT team being called to his house and killing him at his front door because they thought he had a gun.
Times have changed, this is not like the old days where you call somebody a stinkypoop and thats the end of it. There are way too many crazies out there that will take things to the extreme at every given opportunity.
The old man that Keemstar was calling a pedophile, I guess he should simply log off the internet and forget about it right? Never mind the hundred of Keemstar fans harassing him, he should simply ignore it... or maybe, I dont know... KEEMSTAR SHOULD NOT BE HARASSING THE OLD MAN!
I just want to add my 2 cents on the topic of the internet of things and free speech and stuff.
We need an internet bill of rights.
We need a way to guarantee the free flow of information and ideas without being obstructed for expressing yourself. The suppression of free speech under the guise of safety and using the argument that they are a private company never sits well with me. I don't have a solution, just a direction. The violence and lunacy you see around the world because of things they find on the internet shouldn't be reason to build an entire system around what a for profit group, one that views its users as a commodity, thinks is safe and appropriate. Companies are not your friends.
I want free expression, be it hateful or kind, rational or irrational. I want people to see the violence in the world, so they can learn to avoid it, and understand why it is bad. I want people to see the reaction good people have to the bad things in the world and grow from these experiences. How can someone truly oppose an idea without understanding it to begin with? It's like that episode of black mirror where they all have these implants that can do things, including censor bad things you see in the world. The mother turns her filter on at a young age and lets her grow up without any experience of the what the world is really like, it's a really interesting episode.
Its very clear that theres a select few companies that have control of the mediums we all use to communicate. Relatively speaking its been a very short time since the dot com bubble and just look at how the landscape has changed. Where will we be in 20 years? I had no idea the world would change this fast 15 years ago, look how far weve come. Unless there are laws passed to prevent policy and restrictions from getting out of control, were going to be in a very different landscape down the road, probably sooner rather than later. Due to generational interests I can see some of these platforms go the way of myspace and digg in favor of more niche places that arent so restricted. The vacuum left because of their collapse could also just make things worse.
Im just skeptical about leaving our most valued systems, the ones that are part of the backbone of modern 2000's civilization, with private corporations whos world view and morality not everyone subscribes to.
Of course if i had anyone in my family or any of my friends die at the hands of harassment or suffer from abuse they receive online or out in the world, I'd be livid. Its why I say I don't have a solution, but I just don't like what I see and where it's going.
Another thing that doesn't sit right with me is the dismantling of normal face to face communication and normalizing non-contextual interpretations of text. It't like being in a long distance relationship, distance makes the heart grow fonder because your mind starts trying to build an image of a person you barely know. You just don't see the whole picture. False realities are dangerous.
I truly think the thing limiting humanity at this point is its own language. The lexicon of modern english is one of the most efficient ways to transfer data through the spoken word, yet I feel there is something much more efficient out there we have yet to explore. Maybe it could just be a change in the syntax or a complete restructuring of our languages. Maybe it will be a combination of something like neuralink with the spoken word, that will allow us to finally transmit our ideas as fast as we can think them up or even allow our mental capacity to grow now that is less restricted. Right now the speed at which we speak is lower than how fast we can think. The CPU is being bottlenecked by the soundcard of all things. A vague example is neurogenic stuttering, where your words just arent working with your thoughts. The hamster wheel is either spinning too fast or the hamster needs to hit the gym. This is a rabbit hole though, bringing us down the road of epistemology, cognitive linguistics, and even rolling into mathematics, which for now is the language of the universe.
Dont fall into that trap. Keemstar did not get banned and hardly anybody gets banned unless they break some serious rules, like no porn.
Many channels I watched also said "THEY ARE TRYING TO SILENCE ME!!!" when in fact, all they did was not show ads on the channel.
He is free to say or do what ever he wants, he will simply not be monetized because the people who buy the ad space do not want their ads showing on his channel. He is not being banned!
Not laughable for the guy in Kansas three years ago. He was playing Call of Duty and got harassed and then doxxed which lead to a SWAT team being called to his house and killing him at his front door because they thought he had a gun.
Times have changed, this is not like the old days where you call somebody a stinkypoop and thats the end of it. There are way too many crazies out there that will take things to the extreme at every given opportunity.
The old man that Keemstar was calling a pedophile, I guess he should simply log off the internet and forget about it right? Never mind the hundred of Keemstar fans harassing him, he should simply ignore it... or maybe, I dont know... KEEMSTAR SHOULD NOT BE HARASSING THE OLD MAN!
First off lemme say that I might have a very different perspective to you in these matters. I don't live in the US, I see that the world consists of other places and people as well.
"They are trying to silence me, reeee!!"
Yep, fully agreed, as I said in a post above, it's most of the time just that their content is lacking, or they can't accept it that there are literally thousands of other youtube channels covering the same content at the same time and they are just nobodies. In keemstars case, sure, being demonetised is not a ban. Adbertisers are free to do so, and YT is free to do so. I got the problem with the way they decide whom they should monetize and de-monetize, because it's 100% unclear and in lots of cases ideology driven, not rule driven.
But.
" hardly anybody gets banned unless they break some serious rules"
Sadly that's not true.
There is stuff on youtube that you think would get banned, from hardcore porn to levels of violence that is inconceivable to a western society, but is perfectly okay in a certain religion and region, so it stays up. Not always searchable, or location based, but it's there. I've seen it, sadly.
Conversely, channels with political content, or operated by people that the Twitterati or other hate groups consider a bad person, get shut down for no clear violation of their rules. Upon asking for a reason, they can't give them one because most of the time it's only ideological and pandering to certain groups.
Sometimes they get reinstated, sometimes they can make new channels and get away with. Sometimes it's game over.
I'm okay with YT having the right to silence whomever it wants to on their site, if those break the rules. But the rules Must apply to All equally, and must there has to be a reason provided.
There is a very deep rabbit hole of how paypal youtube twitter and others work together to deplatform people and make their lives impossible both online and off, and how the use their position to make it impossible to "Just go somewhere else or make your own". Remember YouTuber Law? He made some fine videos on the CIG vs Crytek case. He has gone very silent for quit some time because he was preparing an investigation into this. I'm truly curious what's up with him and with that case, so if you know anything...
Harassment leads to swatting leads to lead poising. Exactly what I'm talking about, just didn't use the right words. My bad.
What I was trying to write is that I find it both ridiculous and sad that society devolved so far that internet trolling can lead to real life violence in the most trivial bullshit circumstances even. People give away their freedoms to corporations in the hopes that they protect them from their own weak egos and feelings. This is a false hope, it's pathetic and even dangerous in the long run, as we can see with current event's in the US.
Thankfully, the majority of humanity still lives "outside" this bullshit in the real world, and can shrug off these "harassments" as irrelevant bullshit. Not everyone lives in Youtubistan and Twitterfornia you know.
As for the Swat team shooting the guy, which btw I know happened multiple times over the years, in one case with the swat team going in to the wrong house and killing a kid there, it's really sad in many different ways. It's sad that it takes so little to get someone killed by lawenforcement in the US. It's also sad that people are so evil and retarded that they actually do these things to others in the name of "it's just a prank bro", and not understanding the responsibility. I could go on about how the US officers seem a "little triggerhappy" and woefully lack training and such, but I'd rather not with the current events. I could go on how parenting turned from "it's the parent's job" to "it's everyone else's job" to raise a child right.
It's all in the mix of why this keeps happening.
As for keemstar "harassing" over the internet, or anyone else for that matter:
You have laws for that!
There are actual laws, I'm guessing in every civilized country as to what constitutes actual harassment. If you feel truly threatened, you can just call the cops. In my country you can at least. You can file a complaint, and if by Law it's harassment, those doing it will be in real deep shit.
Again: Personal Resposibility! It's not Youtubes job to protect you from rabid fans!
If it's just "oh my feefees hurt", then yeah, go fuck off and grow some balls or whatever you wish to have instead. If it is actually targeted online harassment by a group of individuals, they will be prosecuted! If it comes into the physical world, with stalkers, people going up to your door and bothering you, loosing your job and such, than you can file a lawsuit against everyone involved. And you can win.
Now I know this is problematic in the US with the court system designed to be the deepest money pit it can possibly be, But then you have your own fans, family, supporters, random ppl, you can organise fundraising and so on. Seen it happen countless times.
Here it's different. We pay about 75-85% (yeah I pay +27% on every ship purchase that CIG doesn't even get, fuck) of our income in tax when all added together with VAT, but we get a cheap court system, at least by US standards. Openly and Falsely calling someone a pedophile, for example, could lead to a defamation lawsuit. I know it's different all over the world, but here you can do that, and it works. Unless you're a politician, than you have to put up with it lol
So the old man should sue Keemstars ass, or Yes, ignore the "harassment" as long as it stays online. If you can't, then maybe this kinda thing is not for you.
TLDR.:
- kemmstar getting demonetized is fine, as long as he got demonetized for breaking a rule that applies to ALL youtubers. That is not the case.
- "one rule for thee, but not for me, hahaaa." Fuck that, that needs to be stopped.
- Half Agreed on the "trying to silence me" bit, mostly true
- porn and much much worse is on YT available, but hard to find/location dependent
- ppl get arbitrarily banned for ideology/ YT pandering to certain groups. Seen it happen multiple times over the last 5 years.
- giving away your freedoms and rights to corporation with the hopes of doing right by you and protecting your fragile feelings will have very bad consequences. It's not their job, and shouldn't be.
- Swatting is sad state of western society and US. Total failure of Parenting, and PERSONAL FUCKING RESPONSIBILITY needs to be taught properly! With a slap or stick, both to parents and kids.
- old man needs to grow balls, or leave the internet, or report to police if there is actual threat, or SUE HIS ASS! Because real world LAWS exist! Also, you love suing for anything in the US, don't you? lol
I just want to add my 2 cents on the topic of the internet of things and free speech and stuff.
We need an internet bill of rights.
We need a way to guarantee the free flow of information and ideas without being obstructed for expressing yourself. The suppression of free speech under the guise of safety and using the argument that they are a private company never sits well with me. I don't have a solution, just a direction. The violence and lunacy you see around the world because of things they find on the internet shouldn't be reason to build an entire system around what a for profit group, one that views its users as a commodity, thinks is safe and appropriate. Companies are not your friends.
I want free expression, be it hateful or kind, rational or irrational. I want people to see the violence in the world, so they can learn to avoid it, and understand why it is bad. I want people to see the reaction good people have to the bad things in the world and grow from these experiences. How can someone truly oppose an idea without understanding it to begin with? It's like that episode of black mirror where they all have these implants that can do things, including censor bad things you see in the world. The mother turns her filter on at a young age and lets her grow up without any experience of the what the world is really like, it's a really interesting episode.
Its very clear that theres a select few companies that have control of the mediums we all use to communicate. Relatively speaking its been a very short time since the dot com bubble and just look at how the landscape has changed. Where will we be in 20 years? I had no idea the world would change this fast 15 years ago, look how far weve come. Unless there are laws passed to prevent policy and restrictions from getting out of control, were going to be in a very different landscape down the road, probably sooner rather than later. Due to generational interests I can see some of these platforms go the way of myspace and digg in favor of more niche places that arent so restricted. The vacuum left because of their collapse could also just make things worse.
Im just skeptical about leaving our most valued systems, the ones that are part of the backbone of modern 2000's civilization, with private corporations whos world view and morality not everyone subscribes to.
Of course if i had anyone in my family or any of my friends die at the hands of harassment or suffer from abuse they receive online or out in the world, I'd be livid. Its why I say I don't have a solution, but I just don't like what I see and where it's going.
Another thing that doesn't sit right with me is the dismantling of normal face to face communication and normalizing non-contextual interpretations of text. It't like being in a long distance relationship, distance makes the heart grow fonder because your mind starts trying to build an image of a person you barely know. You just don't see the whole picture. False realities are dangerous.
I truly think the thing limiting humanity at this point is its own language. The lexicon of modern english is one of the most efficient ways to transfer data through the spoken word, yet I feel there is something much more efficient out there we have yet to explore. Maybe it could just be a change in the syntax or a complete restructuring of our languages. Maybe it will be a combination of something like neuralink with the spoken word, that will allow us to finally transmit our ideas as fast as we can think them up or even allow our mental capacity to grow now that is less restricted. Right now the speed at which we speak is lower than how fast we can think. The CPU is being bottlenecked by the soundcard of all things. A vague example is neurogenic stuttering, where your words just arent working with your thoughts. The hamster wheel is either spinning too fast or the hamster needs to hit the gym. This is a rabbit hole though, bringing us down the road of epistemology, cognitive linguistics, and even rolling into mathematics, which for now is the language of the universe.
First off lemme say that I might have a very different perspective to you in these matters. I don't live in the US, I see that the world consists of other places and people as well.
"They are trying to silence me, reeee!!"
Yep, fully agreed, as I said in a post above, it's most of the time just that their content is lacking, or they can't accept it that there are literally thousands of other youtube channels covering the same content at the same time and they are just nobodies. In keemstars case, sure, being demonetised is not a ban. Adbertisers are free to do so, and YT is free to do so. I got the problem with the way they decide whom they should monetize and de-monetize, because it's 100% unclear and in lots of cases ideology driven, not rule driven.
But.
" hardly anybody gets banned unless they break some serious rules"
Sadly that's not true.
There is stuff on youtube that you think would get banned, from hardcore porn to levels of violence that is inconceivable to a western society, but is perfectly okay in a certain religion and region, so it stays up. Not always searchable, or location based, but it's there. I've seen it, sadly.
Conversely, channels with political content, or operated by people that the Twitterati or other hate groups consider a bad person, get shut down for no clear violation of their rules. Upon asking for a reason, they can't give them one because most of the time it's only ideological and pandering to certain groups.
Sometimes they get reinstated, sometimes they can make new channels and get away with. Sometimes it's game over.
I'm okay with YT having the right to silence whomever it wants to on their site, if those break the rules. But the rules Must apply to All equally, and must there has to be a reason provided.
There is a very deep rabbit hole of how paypal youtube twitter and others work together to deplatform people and make their lives impossible both online and off, and how the use their position to make it impossible to "Just go somewhere else or make your own". Remember YouTuber Law? He made some fine videos on the CIG vs Crytek case. He has gone very silent for quit some time because he was preparing an investigation into this. I'm truly curious what's up with him and with that case, so if you know anything...
Harassment leads to swatting leads to lead poising. Exactly what I'm talking about, just didn't use the right words. My bad.
What I was trying to write is that I find it both ridiculous and sad that society devolved so far that internet trolling can lead to real life violence in the most trivial bullshit circumstances even. People give away their freedoms to corporations in the hopes that they protect them from their own weak egos and feelings. This is a false hope, it's pathetic and even dangerous in the long run, as we can see with current event's in the US.
Thankfully, the majority of humanity still lives "outside" this bullshit in the real world, and can shrug off these "harassments" as irrelevant bullshit. Not everyone lives in Youtubistan and Twitterfornia you know.
As for the Swat team shooting the guy, which btw I know happened multiple times over the years, in one case with the swat team going in to the wrong house and killing a kid there, it's really sad in many different ways. It's sad that it takes so little to get someone killed by lawenforcement in the US. It's also sad that people are so evil and retarded that they actually do these things to others in the name of "it's just a prank bro", and not understanding the responsibility. I could go on about how the US officers seem a "little triggerhappy" and woefully lack training and such, but I'd rather not with the current events. I could go on how parenting turned from "it's the parent's job" to "it's everyone else's job" to raise a child right.
It's all in the mix of why this keeps happening.
As for keemstar "harassing" over the internet, or anyone else for that matter:
You have laws for that!
There are actual laws, I'm guessing in every civilized country as to what constitutes actual harassment. If you feel truly threatened, you can just call the cops. In my country you can at least. You can file a complaint, and if by Law it's harassment, those doing it will be in real deep shit.
Again: Personal Resposibility! It's not Youtubes job to protect you from rabid fans!
If it's just "oh my feefees hurt", then yeah, go fuck off and grow some balls or whatever you wish to have instead. If it is actually targeted online harassment by a group of individuals, they will be prosecuted! If it comes into the physical world, with stalkers, people going up to your door and bothering you, loosing your job and such, than you can file a lawsuit against everyone involved. And you can win.
Now I know this is problematic in the US with the court system designed to be the deepest money pit it can possibly be, But then you have your own fans, family, supporters, random ppl, you can organise fundraising and so on. Seen it happen countless times.
Here it's different. We pay about 75-85% (yeah I pay +27% on every ship purchase that CIG doesn't even get, fuck) of our income in tax when all added together with VAT, but we get a cheap court system, at least by US standards. Openly and Falsely calling someone a pedophile, for example, could lead to a defamation lawsuit. I know it's different all over the world, but here you can do that, and it works. Unless you're a politician, than you have to put up with it lol
So the old man should sue Keemstars ass, or Yes, ignore the "harassment" as long as it stays online. If you can't, then maybe this kinda thing is not for you.
TLDR.:
- kemmstar getting demonetized is fine, as long as he got demonetized for breaking a rule that applies to ALL youtubers. That is not the case.
- "one rule for thee, but not for me, hahaaa." Fuck that, that needs to be stopped.
- Half Agreed on the "trying to silence me" bit, mostly true
- porn and much much worse is on YT available, but hard to find/location dependent
- ppl get arbitrarily banned for ideology/ YT pandering to certain groups. Seen it happen multiple times over the last 5 years.
- giving away your freedoms and rights to corporation with the hopes of doing right by you and protecting your fragile feelings will have very bad consequences. It's not their job, and shouldn't be.
- Swatting is sad state of western society and US. Total failure of Parenting, and PERSONAL FUCKING RESPONSIBILITY needs to be taught properly! With a slap or stick, both to parents and kids.
- old man needs to grow balls, or leave the internet, or report to police if there is actual threat, or SUE HIS ASS! Because real world LAWS exist! Also, you love suing for anything in the US, don't you? lol
Agreed, the rules need to be applied equally. I have had videos I made on some subjects demonetized, and bigger channels do not. The difficulty here is that youtube gets 500hrs worth of content uploaded to it every minute of the day. Its almost impossible to get it right for every single upload every single time.
I know where you are going with this, and some content does not belong on Youtube if they dont want it there. Youtube is run by a private company, and if they dont want specific content on their platform, they can remove it. Much like the bakery that refused to sell a cake to a gay couple because they did not support gay marriage, and the supreme court upheld that decision. You can not force a baker to make a cake, and you can not force youtube to host content their advertisers do not deem acceptable.
Keemstar went and accused a completely innocent old man of being pedophile. Is the solution to leave the internet? There is no debate on this, its plain wrong and should not happen. Its true that you can sue for many things in the US, but you also need money to hire the lawyer to take the case. The old man probably does not have $100,000, which what it cost h3h3 in legal fees concerning another youtuber.
The difficulty here is that youtube gets 500hrs worth of content uploaded to it every minute of the day. Its almost impossible to get it right for every single upload every single time.
When myspace came around I asked how such a service could work because of the sheer volume of things they have to police. I was like "welp, sucks to be them, they have a lot of work to do. They should have had this figured out before they launched, I hope they get fucked." (I just didn't like that they were given special exemptions because it would have been too difficult). Unfortunately these sites were given special status which keeps them from being liable for any defamatory and other content users post on their site. Trump signed an executive order recently trying to take that special status away once they started censoring his tweets and I hope something comes of it. Just because they are a private company doesn't mean they can do whatever they want. It's why we have regulations, its time for us to figure this shit out and sway this in the favor of the individual rather than in the favor of the private companies. I don't want adsense steering policy.
This conversation is trending towards politics instead of the original subject... lets give it a rest. Im on discord atm and will be happy to throw down some reasons why all of you are wrong about everything!
Agreed, the rules need to be applied equally. I have had videos I made on some subjects demonetized, and bigger channels do not. The difficulty here is that youtube gets 500hrs worth of content uploaded to it every minute of the day. Its almost impossible to get it right for every single upload every single time.
I know where you are going with this, and some content does not belong on Youtube if they dont want it there. Youtube is run by a private company, and if they dont want specific content on their platform, they can remove it. Much like the bakery that refused to sell a cake to a gay couple because they did not support gay marriage, and the supreme court upheld that decision. You can not force a baker to make a cake, and you can not force youtube to host content their advertisers do not deem acceptable.
Keemstar went and accused a completely innocent old man of being pedophile. Is the solution to leave the internet? There is no debate on this, its plain wrong and should not happen. Its true that you can sue for many things in the US, but you also need money to hire the lawyer to take the case. The old man probably does not have $100,000, which what it cost h3h3 in legal fees concerning another youtuber.
The " it's a private company they do whatever they want" is a false argument. They have to abide by the laws and regulations of every single country they operate in.
Youtube is a Platform under Safe harbor laws in the US and similarly in the EU. This comes with the benefit of not being liable for the content posted, BUT they also can Not remove content just arbitrarily unless it breaks the Law. It doesn't matter if they like it or not, that's the tradeoff!
Should they become a publisher instead to clean up the platform and make it a more advertizer and user friendly place? Yeah, sure, I'd still watch!
Your videos getting demonetized is not an accident. "oh they make mistakes.." yes, humans do. Algorithms less so.
It's that you're small and not worth the risk of not demonetizing if the algorithm happens to catch words that may imply touchy subjects or heaven forbid, wrongthink on your part. It might hurt the advertisers!
I can completely understand why they do this, they are a for-profit corporation. I just don't agree with the rules not applying to everyone.
They make their own rules, then why not make them so they can do this openly?
Because then people could see how really rotten and twisted they are compared to the image they present of themselves, and it might hurt the ad revenue ofc...
There is no argument that what keemstar did is wrong! I guess it sux to be the old guy then, I'm sorry that it happens. And ofc no, he shouldn't leave the internet. But YT shouldn't be allowed to control who gets to bully who for the ad money either. Unless they want to be the publisher they currently are....
This conversation is trending towards politics instead of the original subject... lets give it a rest. Im on discord atm and will be happy to throw down some reasons why all of you are wrong about everything!
This conversation is trending towards politics instead of the original subject... lets give it a rest. Im on discord atm and will be happy to throw down some reasons why all of you are wrong about everything!
Not much I'd expect - the arse fell out of advertising when COVID came along. Most companies pulled their ad monies as no shops, no sales, no point spending several hundred thousand a month on advertising without a return on the investment. What was the last ad you saw on YT? I believe the last one I saw was for an app that lets you trade on the stock market... If that's the best targeted ad they have right now nobody is spending because I care not a jot about the stock market. I've seen the hugest of the huge YouTubers saying they are still making videos to stay on top of the cursed algorithm.
It might be picking up a little now with smaller companies filling the void before the bigger players start pumping the millions back in, but my guess is the platform will be covering its costs before it passes anything to the content generators.
