What is the handwavium difference between EMP and the output of an EMP charge? Or is CIG actually describing a plasma weapon?
They fixed the Vanguard?
- Thread starter Shadow Reaper
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I'm guessing an EMP charge is one which is detonated with no warm-up or EM giveaway, but has limited shots, whereas an EMP generator is unlimited in use but has a warm-up time and big EM signature...
....just a guess though.
Naff pretty much explained it as CIG only gave brief statements about it other than they would be limited ammo direct impact weapons so I would guess missile or rocket form of delivery and not the AOE weapon it currently has but as always things may change.
I think you're recalling discussions of the Spike Missiles, which was from before the EMP charge, and not limited to the Vanguard. I don't think there is any reason to believe we'll ever see EMP charges or Spike (distortion) missiles. Just gotta wait and see.
You don't have to produce your own radar return to trigger a scanning AA radar into trying to lock and track you. You can use an artificial signal, emitted from a stealth craft.
Almost all fire control systems both scan and track, but these are different modes. There are lots of different kinds of fire control radar systems, and not just physically, like dishes compared to phased arrays, but how the signals are processed as well. The issue is that Wild Weasels kick radars from their scan only mode into tracking mode, and the anti-radiation missile it fires follows that tracking beam back to its projector. So far as I'm aware, anti-radiation missiles are passive EM sensor guided, meaning they are half a radar system, using their target's EM projector to target, track and kill.
You don't have to produce your own radar return to trigger a scanning AA radar into trying to lock and track you. You can use an artificial signal, emitted from a stealth craft.
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Richard Bong
Space Marshal
Scanning radars tend to be kept in standby mode until a target is believed to be in the area, or switched on and off in very limited on bursts. This has been the case since the late 60's. In fact the F-14 was equipped with a TV Camera for finding targets without lighting itself up because of that.
It is similar to sonar in that regard. You rely on passive unless you have a reason not to. And even then limit your exposure.
If you are emitting there is no reason to go active, your location is known.
That "artificial signal" gives your position away without the enemy having to light themselves up.
We have no idea what an EMP charge is or what the terminology means. We'll have to wait and see.
Richard Bong
Space Marshal
There is no indication that even CIG knows the answer to this. Everything is speculation.
That's the only explanation that makes any sense. I have a feeling that somebody at CIG spoke before they understood what they were saying.
CIG stated the Sentenel EMP generator currently in game was always a placeholder and the sales page alludes to the illusive charges:
"The Vanguard Sentinel is a ship that’s designed to fight smart instead of taking enemies head on. The conversion features an AR cockpit, an external e-War pod, decoy missiles and a set of EMP charges. Vanguard Sentinels often provide necessary combat support for combined operations. A lone Sentinel assigned wild weasel tasks is frequently paired with Harbinger bombers and Warden escorts for large attack missions."
The Vanguard Sentinel - Roberts Space Industries | Follow the development of Star Citizen and Squadron 42
Roberts Space Industries is the official go-to website for all news about Star Citizen and Squadron 42. It also hosts the online store for game items and merch, as well as all the community tools used by our fans.
robertsspaceindustries.com
It also references EMP missiles in the loadout section:
When I read the term "Charge" I read it in the way one may refer to the term "depth-charge" rather than an indevidual unit of electricql capacity, however thats just my interpretation and as always its all subject to change anyway :-)
Richard Bong
Space Marshal
Yes they did say it was a place holder. For what, nobody really knows and nobody official has said.
Lots of speculation in the community. My personal guess is the current system will end up staying, because it is one less mechanic to have to come up with
Good answer, just it's the answer for the wrong question.
What I asked:
EMP means Electromagnetic Pulse. It is the same force, no matter how it is generated.
One of the primary sources for EMP is the sun. It's a biproduct of a coronal mass ejection. The earth is protected from that by it's magnetosphere, generated in the earth's core because it is essentially a rotating iron magnet. The results of that protection is what you would call the Aurora Borealis. Also, that life could form on the planet.
I'm taking several shortcuts below.
There are two ways that humans can generate an EMP.:
One of those options is by detonating a nuclear explosion. I don't think CIG is talking about that, because as was an intense EMP, there is also a release of kinetic energy, like getting hit by billions of ballistic rounds. It's largely replicating what's happening in the sun at a small scale. Shields in SC would largely be useless against that kind of attack.
That leaves the other option, called a non-nuclear EMP. Basically it's an EMP generated by a chemical reaction or a sudden release of electric potential. Example on the very small scale: turning a light on. Example at the high end, a lightning strike. The lightning strike is the most interesting as a weapon. They are several orders of magnitude weaker than a nuclear EMP, but are also focusable into a beam that increases the intensity at the focal point That's why lightning is a dangerous thing. It can split an oak tree in half for example. Humans have learned how to focus the beam in a controlled manner - they've known how to do that for several decades. While it's not perfect yet, you seriously don't want to be at or near the focal point of such a beam. The biologic matter that makes you up is pretty much OK if you're in a vacuum, but your watch, any computer, anything that uses electricity is at risk of being fried. That includes you if you're touching something made of a conductor. Also see below about the "hidden item".
Humans have also known how to shield from such a beam. If you're surrounded by metal, but not touching the metal (you're insulated) you're protected by that. You can also generate a strong magnetic field around you. It has to be very strong. Stronger. Now you have a magnetosphere like the earth.
Be careful, there are limits to the protection from a magnetosphere. It will collapse if hit by a strong enough EMP, or enough EMP's that come before it can fully recover from the last one. Your only protection if you're in space is that you might be inside a space ship... but the electronics and virtually anything electrical is going to be impacted and is at risk of completely frying.
One of the primary sources for EMP is the sun. It's a biproduct of a coronal mass ejection. The earth is protected from that by it's magnetosphere, generated in the earth's core because it is essentially a rotating iron magnet. The results of that protection is what you would call the Aurora Borealis. Also, that life could form on the planet.
I'm taking several shortcuts below.
There are two ways that humans can generate an EMP.:
One of those options is by detonating a nuclear explosion. I don't think CIG is talking about that, because as was an intense EMP, there is also a release of kinetic energy, like getting hit by billions of ballistic rounds. It's largely replicating what's happening in the sun at a small scale. Shields in SC would largely be useless against that kind of attack.
That leaves the other option, called a non-nuclear EMP. Basically it's an EMP generated by a chemical reaction or a sudden release of electric potential. Example on the very small scale: turning a light on. Example at the high end, a lightning strike. The lightning strike is the most interesting as a weapon. They are several orders of magnitude weaker than a nuclear EMP, but are also focusable into a beam that increases the intensity at the focal point That's why lightning is a dangerous thing. It can split an oak tree in half for example. Humans have learned how to focus the beam in a controlled manner - they've known how to do that for several decades. While it's not perfect yet, you seriously don't want to be at or near the focal point of such a beam. The biologic matter that makes you up is pretty much OK if you're in a vacuum, but your watch, any computer, anything that uses electricity is at risk of being fried. That includes you if you're touching something made of a conductor. Also see below about the "hidden item".
Humans have also known how to shield from such a beam. If you're surrounded by metal, but not touching the metal (you're insulated) you're protected by that. You can also generate a strong magnetic field around you. It has to be very strong. Stronger. Now you have a magnetosphere like the earth.
Be careful, there are limits to the protection from a magnetosphere. It will collapse if hit by a strong enough EMP, or enough EMP's that come before it can fully recover from the last one. Your only protection if you're in space is that you might be inside a space ship... but the electronics and virtually anything electrical is going to be impacted and is at risk of completely frying.
So, Again: What is the handwavium difference between an EMP or the EMP generated by an EMP charge? Or is CIG trying to describe a plasma weapon?
Hidden item from the spoiler: The same process that generates an EMP like that can be designed to discharge the generated plasma instead.
Some very general thoughts from a Navy perspective..
I do think you guys are arguing something from strict definitions which are more conceptual than practical.
EA-18G's, the Growlers, typically kit for detection, jamming, and offensive action. Where the Air Force breaks it up into specific roles as mentioned above, a Naval Air strike package by necessity incorporates all of these abilities. Nothing prevents spreading the love out; but we train to handle it internally to maximize effect for available resources.
It is not always necessary for a SAM site to light up it's tracking radar for it to be detected. The nature of a tracking system puts it into a fairly tightly defined set of characteristics, and if it's to be useful (hot to go!) then the microwave device is usually making noise, albeit a relatively small amount. We have tools to find this, classify it, and if desired 'jam' seven different ways to Sunday depending on the goals. Or blow it up, which looks good in the movies.
From a game perspective it would make sense to combine much of the real world stuff into manageable play. So while top-end detection might be left in the hands of a Terrapin, the Sentinel may have analysis tools for detailed breakdown of the equipment generating the ping, for example. The human skill factor may be in making that identification, or in adjusting the setting on a Pod to mimic the incoming signal. One mode could be sending back a reflected signal with modified characteristics, and again the skill would be in getting those values to represent something realistic to the Ping operator. Shifting the position of a detection may be one of the simpler modes, depending on game mechanics. Pure noise is the classical option, but it's not actually that useful and tends to give away information. Setting up a decoy for the desired signature; launching/flying it on a meaningful path to look like an expected target would be another player skill based activity that could be part of this game loop. There are other ways, I'm just pitching some ideas out there.
Balancing this to not be OP but still fun is going to be a delicate task for CIG. EvE Online never did get it right, and their repeated decisions that nerfed this specialty into oblivion was the straw that pushed me out of the game.
To the idea of stealth.. better if the enemy doesn't know you are out there. It makes perfect sense to me that the Sentinel would have stealth components; the very nature of it's role is deception.
I do think you guys are arguing something from strict definitions which are more conceptual than practical.
EA-18G's, the Growlers, typically kit for detection, jamming, and offensive action. Where the Air Force breaks it up into specific roles as mentioned above, a Naval Air strike package by necessity incorporates all of these abilities. Nothing prevents spreading the love out; but we train to handle it internally to maximize effect for available resources.
It is not always necessary for a SAM site to light up it's tracking radar for it to be detected. The nature of a tracking system puts it into a fairly tightly defined set of characteristics, and if it's to be useful (hot to go!) then the microwave device is usually making noise, albeit a relatively small amount. We have tools to find this, classify it, and if desired 'jam' seven different ways to Sunday depending on the goals. Or blow it up, which looks good in the movies.
From a game perspective it would make sense to combine much of the real world stuff into manageable play. So while top-end detection might be left in the hands of a Terrapin, the Sentinel may have analysis tools for detailed breakdown of the equipment generating the ping, for example. The human skill factor may be in making that identification, or in adjusting the setting on a Pod to mimic the incoming signal. One mode could be sending back a reflected signal with modified characteristics, and again the skill would be in getting those values to represent something realistic to the Ping operator. Shifting the position of a detection may be one of the simpler modes, depending on game mechanics. Pure noise is the classical option, but it's not actually that useful and tends to give away information. Setting up a decoy for the desired signature; launching/flying it on a meaningful path to look like an expected target would be another player skill based activity that could be part of this game loop. There are other ways, I'm just pitching some ideas out there.
Balancing this to not be OP but still fun is going to be a delicate task for CIG. EvE Online never did get it right, and their repeated decisions that nerfed this specialty into oblivion was the straw that pushed me out of the game.
To the idea of stealth.. better if the enemy doesn't know you are out there. It makes perfect sense to me that the Sentinel would have stealth components; the very nature of it's role is deception.