Noobifier wants the game to be commercially released, and my thoughts on the matter.

[CRISS9000]

I'd be fine with half the things on the list, especially the items highlighted at 10:37, but I would also add "Redesigning ships that are not up to the current gold standard". (Avenger, Constellation, Carrack and MSR just to name a few). Maybe if that poll about "release or development" was re-done today, the results would've been different.

The features that I want, other than those highlighted after 10:37, are: modularity in all ships with that feature (hoping for a quantainium processing module for the Carrack), at least one of each type of drone, refueling and re-arming ships from inside (ballistic guns are nice but they run dry real quick), exploration and data mechanics, wormholes (if only to connect Stanton and Pyro), ship & vehicle tractor beams, farming (including fishing at logical bodies of water) and crafting along with the resource collection and processing mechanics to facilitate. That should amount to somewhere around half the list.

Also, the Carrack needs a redesign of its internal layout so that the medbay and armory are quicker to get to, and to apply Morphologis's criticism of its flaws. In my opinion, i would move the main elevator to where the small one is now, and move the corridors over to the side. The layout of the medbay would need to change as well to compensate.

And finally: optimize ship control panels in the seating stations so that each individual action can be done separately without opening literally all the doors just for one of them

everything else can come later.

BTW: I think that with 3.18 being out, we have the first iteration of camping - you can use a small ship as a tent, get a couple boxes, and find a nice spot to sunbathe. only one thing is missing, and that's laying on one's back.

 

[NaffNaffBobFace]

Heh, Minimal Viable Product.

An MVP for a wooden cooking spoon is just a branch you've pulled off a tree you can stir the pot with.

Does it work? Yes. Does it do everything a wooden spoon can? No, but it does a good 70℅ of it. Everything about branch stirring says it should be the MVP of wooden spoons.

Why are we not stirring our pots with branches?

Because an MVP is a short-term solution for a short term need. The porridge is burning but I have nothing to stir it with! Branch wont just do, it'll work really well.

But will the branch then help me move the porrige from the pot to the bowl? Well, no. Actually it would hinder further progress with anything to do with the porridge and will also effect the immediate porridge, even if the MVP includes washing the branch, it will contaminate the food to a degree, physical or microbal - somthing unintended will still be there.

I'm not saying I'm enjoying the wait, and I'm ot advocaring for feature creep - I'm saying in a world that has been putting in Minimal Viable Effort for the last 20 years, giving in now we can see a horizon would be a henious defeat not just for the game but for culture as a whole.

 

[CRISS9000]

well, I'd say that this industry has put far less than minimal viable effort. also, a spoon is far too simple of an item to compare with a simulator game of unprecedented complexity.

it is my opinion that after almost 10 years of developing mostly back-stage software tech, it's high time to start looking more towards completion of a feature set that you can say is at least enough.
basically i'm with noobifier on this subject. I'm not asking for the full list of features, just for a featureset that makes sense as a starting point that can entertain me and the bulk of the rest of the game's audience until the rest of the features and content is in a presentable state.

just give me something that i can say is an enjoyable base game. the rest can come later.

 

[Lorddarthvik]

Can you, the general public, buy the game? Yes.
Can you play the game you just bought? Yes.
Then it's a released game. The rest is semantics.

There is no point in looking for a minimal viable product in such detail apart from fantasizing, which while I enjoy doing so and the video was a good starting point for that, realistically it makes no sense for SC.
As long as even the barebones minimum of gameplay features, like character movement mechanics and flight model, gets redefined and reinvented every couple of years, there is no stable ground to build your tower of minimal viable things on.
It's just not happening unless at least the basics get locked down for good.

You can make a high-level MVP list of "you have to be able to move, fly, land, do combat, do trade, have x star systems, do at least y professions like mining, do multiplayer stuff" it feels pointless to go into any more detail as things get changed and added so frequently.

example:
Rememba how at citcon they showcased new traversal, like long jumps and climbing, and adding jet packs? That means every single environment/map/level/planet/building, including SQ42 missions, has to be at least partially re-built, new assets made, exploit-proofed and debugged. That "small" change adds years of work so that the minimal viable product can function.

The point is they just added items to the mvp list, things you didn't even know existed up until last years Citcon but are now necessary as they form the very basis of the game. The list will keep changing unless they stop with this crap.


TLDR.: you can't really make a list of what's the mvp while even the most very basic features/game mechanics aren't locked down and considered complete for release. You can make a wishlist ofc, but that's not the same.

 

[Thalstan]

I think he main point that he and a number of other are trying to say is they want a game that you can actually progress in. They want a game that stops resetting your rep, momey, inventory, and other progress every 3-12 Months.

However, a MVP needs a lot of stuff, including a real economy, working NPCs, more than one system (5 would be nice) even if it’s a loading screen, Working fauna, working slower moving factions that actually make what you do count in-game, not something you can wipe away in a moment at a security terminal.

Ost of all though, it needs a stable and bug free game. No crashes, no drops, no dying going down a ramp, or elevator bosses that kill you, vacuum in the hallway of an office building on ArcCorp, getting up the wrong way out of bed and falling to your death outside the building, etc. This is something CIG has yet to deliver on any patch. At this point, I am not even sure this is something CIG can ever deliver…

 

[Sky Captain]

An MVP is more than flyable ships and server stability, IMHO. Think of the systems we still lack: Player role specialization and progression systems, NPC crew systems, functioning interstellar economic model, industrial ships working in their intended roles, meaningful gameplay presentation of the Vanduul and other baddies, and more. We're still in the 'long haul' development phase.

 

[Richard Bong]

The big point being made is "enough of the feature creep."

 

[Ayeteeone]

My $ 00.02 - SQ42 will get a commercial release, when CR is finally convinced by the rest of leadership that it's ready to roll out to the masses. Relatively speaking, maybe not much longer given the amount of effort going into the game, and the reality that it is a finite experience.

The PU will continue to develop indefinitely. Somewhere along the way the code will cross a line where it's ready for in-game permanence and at that point we may see the beta or even 'release'. 'Minimum viable product' is NOT in CIG's development philosophy; there is far too much effort being put into the details for that concept to have merit with this project.

 

[Richard Bong]

My $ 00.02 - SQ42 will get a commercial release, when CR is finally convinced by the rest of leadership that it's ready to roll out to the masses. Relatively speaking, maybe not much longer given the amount of effort going into the game, and the reality that it is a finite experience.

The PU will continue to develop indefinitely. Somewhere along the way the code will cross a line where it's ready for in-game permanence and at that point we may see the beta or even 'release'. 'Minimum viable product' is NOT in CIG's development philosophy; there is far too much effort being put into the details for that concept to have merit with this project.

According to Erin Roberts, at an Asian Bar Citizen last summer, Squadron 42 was more than 2 years out. I see that getting further away, given CIG's track record, not nearer.

 

[Ayeteeone]

According to Erin Roberts, at an Asian Bar Citizen last summer, Squadron 42 was more than 2 years out. I see that getting further away, given CIG's track record, not nearer.

Yeah, thus my point of the other leadership convincing him. One of the problems of having a perfectionist in charge is that there is always something else that can be added for realism/fidelity/engagement/immersion.

 

[ThunderKraken]

At this rate. Elite Dangerous should make a part 2.

 

[KuruptU4Fun]

Yeah, thus my point of the other leadership convincing him. One of the problems of having a perfectionist in charge is that there is always something else that can be added for realism/fidelity/engagement/immersion.

I was under the impression that Eric, not Chris, was in charge of SQ42 because Chris' perfectionism was causing issues with it's development.

When did they add players owning shops and what types are we talking about? If I own 1000's of SCU's of commodities to sell I'm okay with calling that a shop. If it's a small storefront of custom crafted items that I'd have to be present at in order to sell goods I'm okay with that. But CR's often said he doesn't want us to have passive income in the game, so selling 1000's of SCU's of crafted goods an NPC I can hire as a salesman for I'm not a big fan of. Can someone clarify for me please?

 

[Shadow Reaper]

The big point being made is "enough of the feature creep."

That wasn't my take away at all. My take away was a bit of shock that so many people think their opinion in this matter, matters, when Chris has always been consistent in noting he will not release it until it is finished. "It will be done when it is done." The whining is just childish impatience and narcissism.

I get that the pressure of yearning gets to people over time, and we need to make allowances. Lots of content providers have cracked and posted up pure ship posts, then learned to live with it afterward. My contention is they don't drink nearly enough, or they post when they've been drinking (my bad, just not today).

 

[CRISS9000]

TLDR.: you can't really make a list of what's the mvp while even the most very basic features/game mechanics aren't locked down and considered complete for release. You can make a wishlist ofc, but that's not the same.

'Minimum viable product' is NOT in CIG's development philosophy; there is far too much effort being put into the details for that concept to have merit with this project.

all valid points, you changed my opinion. I now think that Noobifier is not entirely in the right there. I guess we'll have to remain patient with Star Citizen.

I only wonder about one thing: how long will we have to wait? it's been 10 years.

 

[Richard Bong]

I only wonder about one thing: how long will we have to wait? it's been 10 years.

Heat death of the universe.

 

[NaffNaffBobFace]

Heat death of the universe.

As soon as that? ;-)

 

[CRISS9000]

I *did* forget ingame chat features, ingame org management and better social animations and animation menu. we do need those.