Shadow Reaper
Space Marshal
To be honest, I hadn’t thought to turn this into a debate so I’ll be as brief as possible to address your points.
There were over 64,000 separate democracies in Greece over the 600 or so years before Christ. Whomever told you it was a couple white guys lied to you. Also, anyone who led you to believe those democracies did not allow women nor slaves to vote, lied to you. The fact is virtually every form of self governance was tried at one time or another. Eventually, only the head of a household who could field a warrior with armor and weapons in defense of his city-state was counted as a single vote. That became the “polis” or individual from which we get “politics”. Of course all these pure democracies were utterly deficient as identified by Socrates and Plato, and rendered obsolete by the invention of the Republic.
Yes, there is an inherent tension between the power of labor and management and when it is out of balance you necessarily get excesses of one sort or another. This wasn’t solved until the invention of the Union. So preunion examples do often reflect a natural imbalance. Still, it is a lot better to choose your work than have someone do it for you. Are you recommending slavery over selling skills on a free market? I don’t think so. I think you’re complaining because some very ungrateful person taught you to complain. In a Communist community you’d be killed for this. I am old enough to remember the Soviets shooting people trying to cross the Berlin Wall. . . shot and killed people regularly for decades who were trying to escape the USSR. There was never anyone shot trying to go the other way.
Just to be clear, you absolutely do not demonstrate a command of history sufficient to judge these things. Rather, you seem to respond with leftist propaganda. I heartily suggest you do some research on your own, since as I noted; your peculiar kind of ignorance got two hundred million people killed last century, and if that mind virus gets loose again it will kill billions. Utopian world views are always the ones that get people killed. World views that treat mankind’s nature as tragic, flawed and needing to be kept in check have consistently provided the most freedom and prosperity, and even a grammar school examination of history will show this beyond a doubt. Do you know who Pol Pot was and what percentage of his own people he murdered in the name of Utopia?
Stop comparing life against heaven. We are not yet suited to heaven. If we were let in the way we are, we would ruin it. A political system does not need to be perfect to be good. All we can hope for is a system that deals with life and its maladies and keeps our natures in check. The system does not need to be perfect to be good and capitalism has proven itself as very much better than communism.
Go talk to someone, anyone from a communist country. Their eyes are not filled with stars, but rather anger at what communism does to people in the real world.
There were over 64,000 separate democracies in Greece over the 600 or so years before Christ. Whomever told you it was a couple white guys lied to you. Also, anyone who led you to believe those democracies did not allow women nor slaves to vote, lied to you. The fact is virtually every form of self governance was tried at one time or another. Eventually, only the head of a household who could field a warrior with armor and weapons in defense of his city-state was counted as a single vote. That became the “polis” or individual from which we get “politics”. Of course all these pure democracies were utterly deficient as identified by Socrates and Plato, and rendered obsolete by the invention of the Republic.
Yes, there is an inherent tension between the power of labor and management and when it is out of balance you necessarily get excesses of one sort or another. This wasn’t solved until the invention of the Union. So preunion examples do often reflect a natural imbalance. Still, it is a lot better to choose your work than have someone do it for you. Are you recommending slavery over selling skills on a free market? I don’t think so. I think you’re complaining because some very ungrateful person taught you to complain. In a Communist community you’d be killed for this. I am old enough to remember the Soviets shooting people trying to cross the Berlin Wall. . . shot and killed people regularly for decades who were trying to escape the USSR. There was never anyone shot trying to go the other way.
Just to be clear, you absolutely do not demonstrate a command of history sufficient to judge these things. Rather, you seem to respond with leftist propaganda. I heartily suggest you do some research on your own, since as I noted; your peculiar kind of ignorance got two hundred million people killed last century, and if that mind virus gets loose again it will kill billions. Utopian world views are always the ones that get people killed. World views that treat mankind’s nature as tragic, flawed and needing to be kept in check have consistently provided the most freedom and prosperity, and even a grammar school examination of history will show this beyond a doubt. Do you know who Pol Pot was and what percentage of his own people he murdered in the name of Utopia?
Stop comparing life against heaven. We are not yet suited to heaven. If we were let in the way we are, we would ruin it. A political system does not need to be perfect to be good. All we can hope for is a system that deals with life and its maladies and keeps our natures in check. The system does not need to be perfect to be good and capitalism has proven itself as very much better than communism.
Go talk to someone, anyone from a communist country. Their eyes are not filled with stars, but rather anger at what communism does to people in the real world.
Last edited:
