Exploration Official Exploration Council

[Wolf Lord Caldersson]

I am proud to announce the official "Exploration Council". Why a council instead of a organized group such as Rock Raiders? Exploration is going to massive and useful to many career fields, miners, combat pilots, sciences, and so on will all use explorations. Why the need it varies, miners for ore, combat pilots for unique weapons and ships, science ships for rare findings. We found it best there be a council instead of a organized group, so any group that dabbles in exploration can join.

What does Exploration Council do? Exploration Council is a focal point for people to contact to help get contracts to the different exploration groups. Such as a combat pilot wants a Glaive, instead of contacting several different TEST groups like Infinity or D.S.E.T, they can contact the council and the council can advertise it to organization. It is also used for cross-communication with each other. Such as new methods to use, where people have already explored and if there is anything that might interest another party. The council will *not* dictate how a TEST group is run, or demand taxes. We want the TEST groups to have the freedom to succeed or fail, to be able to set their own destiny, because that is what exploration is about.

How does one join? The council is open to any group that wishes to be part of it. All members are treated equally. Voting will be determined at a later date, I don't want a big org flooding the votes crushing small groups, or small groups swamping a big group. There is a small council that will be used for admin maintenance, such as scheduling meetings, and moderating internal meetings causing minimal impact on Montoya support staff.

Will the council have ships? The council will not have ships, but if a very large exploration operation is under way that we need of one we will request if from Montoya and his support staff.

What is needed right now? I believe a name is in order, Official Exploration Council is a bit to formal for TEST. We need members, members will help shape the council to be what it is in the future. Have a suggestion name it and lets look at it together. WE NEED A SYMBOL! Mostly so I can change my icon.

NOTE! It is important to keep in mind, that this is all fluid and may change.

Current Members of the Council:
D.S.E.T
Infinity
Rock Raiders
Night Krew

 

[NKato]

I propose ExCo for the council.

I am in the process of re-examining the roles and purpose of Infinity, but it won't be moving away from the primary profession of exploration...just under a different frame of mind and objectives compared to DSET and Testploration.

P.S. I think Salt Lake means other squads/groups within TEST when he says "organizations" in the OP...

 

[Black Sunder]

My 2 cents:

Keep this in TEST and only TEST. You talk about other orgs etc being on this council and I just can't see that working long term because what will happen is those people will join us or our people join them vice versa because of these working relationships and then it goes downhill from there. Information will be compromised if we find something we REALLY REALLY want on the frontier and what may have been a quiet reclamation of an Idris for us has turned into a major skirmish because people in the Council talked. That is probably a bad example but if we want to keep things to ourselves for profit then we have to keep it to ourselves.

If you want some structure to coordinate between the various TEST exploration groups thats one thing, getting other orgs involved in it, no.

p.s. call it the Explorien Council

p.p.s I hope the use of the word "orgs" was a mistake. If it was then I'm all for it.

 

[Wolf Lord Caldersson]

My 2 cents:

Keep this in TEST and only TEST. You talk about other orgs etc being on this council and I just can't see that working long term because what will happen is those people will join us or our people join them vice versa because of these working relationships and then it goes downhill from there. Information will be compromised if we find something we REALLY REALLY want on the frontier and what may have been a quiet reclamation of an Idris for us has turned into a major skirmish because people in the Council talked. That is probably a bad example but if we want to keep things to ourselves for profit then we have to keep it to ourselves.

If you want some structure to coordinate between the various TEST exploration groups thats one thing, getting other orgs involved in it, no.

p.s. call it the Explorien Council

p.p.s I hope the use of the word "orgs" was a mistake. If it was then I'm all for it.

organizations as in Infinity and DSET, not outside organizations.

 

[Wolf Lord Caldersson]

I propose ExCo for the council.

I am in the process of re-examining the roles and purpose of Infinity, but it won't be moving away from the primary profession of exploration...just under a different frame of mind and objectives compared to DSET and Testploration.

P.S. I think Salt Lake means other squads/groups within TEST when he says "organizations" in the OP...

understandable, everyone is finding their balance at this time.

Yes you are correct, this council is TEST internal only, no external organizations or squadron.

 

[NKato]

organizations as in Infinity and DSET, not outside organizations.

I really do recommend you cease using the word "organization", because TEST itself is an organization. Let me spell it out more readily for you according to my proposal:

Tier 1 - TEST Squadron Leadership (Organization)
Tier 2 - Divisional Leadership (Divisions)
Tier 3 - Squad/Group Leadership (Fleets)
Tier 4 - Branch Leadership (At the discretion of Squad/Group leadership).

So if you refer to Tier 3 groups as "organizations", it will create confusion. Instead, please consider calling them Fleet Groups or Squads.

If you keep using "organizations" as a term to apply to squads/groups like Infinity and Rock Raiders, you're gonna make both myself and Black Sunder blow a fuse.

P.S. Accept my friend request on Steam. I want to talk to you directly. :p

 

[Wolf Lord Caldersson]

I really do recommend you cease using the word "organization", because TEST itself is an organization. Let me spell it out more readily for you:

Tier 1 - TEST Squadron Leadership (Organization)
Tier 2 - Divisional Leadership (Divisions)
Tier 3 - Squad/Group Leadership (Fleets)
Tier 4 - Branch Leadership (At the discretion of Squad/Group leadership).

So if you refer to Tier 3 groups as "organizations", it will create confusion. Instead, please consider calling them Fleet Groups or Squads.

If you keep using "organizations" as a term to apply to squads/groups like Infinity and Rock Raiders, you're gonna make both myself and Black Sunder blow a fuse.

Thing is if you saw Squad it gets confusing with squadron. There is a Infinity Squadron, might get confused with your Infinity Squad. Test should be named to TEST FLEET. Followed by Wings, then groups then flights. Organizations can be either huge or small depending on how you associate them. TEST is a organizations and DSET is a organization, it is a generic term for a group.

Tier 1- Fleet
Tier 2- Wing
Tier 3- Group
Tier 4- Flight

 

[NKato]

Thing is if you saw Squad it gets confusing with squadron. There is a Infinity Squadron, might get confused with your Infinity Squadron. Test should be named to TEST FLEET. Followed by Wings, then groups then flights. Organizations can be either huge or small depending on how you associate them. TEST is a organizations and DSET is a organization, it is a generic term for a group.

Tier 1- Fleet
Tier 2- Wing
Tier 3- Group
Tier 4- Flight

You're right, if "squad" is used interchangably it does create confusion. That's why I personally believe that it would be better to refer to them as Fleet Groups or just Groups.

P.S. TEST Squadron as a whole is technically not a fleet, but is officially an org. Keep that in mind. I've put literally over 18 hours of thought into the development and proposal of TEST's overall structure, and even developed two flowcharts for TEST leadership to look at. https://testsquadron.com/threads/discussion-divisions-of-test-brainstorm.3793/

P.P.S. Let's be honest, given our size, we're worth at least three fleets or more.

 

[honcho12]

Thing is if you saw Squad it gets confusing with squadron. There is a Infinity Squadron, might get confused with your Infinity Squad. Test should be named to TEST FLEET. Followed by Wings, then groups then flights. Organizations can be either huge or small depending on how you associate them. TEST is a organizations and DSET is a organization, it is a generic term for a group.

Tier 1- Fleet
Tier 2- Wing
Tier 3- Group
Tier 4- Flight

TEST fleet BEST fleet!

It still rhymes, so I'm ok with the change.

 

[NKato]

The reason I don't agree with Salt Lake's approximation of the tiers, is because fleets are formed in-game, and that can cause further confusion with the terminology.

For me, it's:

Fleets are ad-hoc ship groupings, or executions of STRATOPs.

Wings are sub-groups established to operate in a given area of responsibility (should the need arise).

Groups are Fleet Groups (as defined in the prior post).

And Flights are established within a Fleet within the framework of Star Citizen's fleet mechanic as groups of 2 to 6 craft.

Let's not adopt any official structures from the military, @Salt Lake, okay? The minute we move in that direction, is the instant we've shot ourselves in the foot. Let creativity be our advantage, not rigidity.

 

[Wolf Lord Caldersson]

The reason I don't agree with Salt Lake's approximation of the tiers, is because fleets are formed in-game, and that can cause further confusion with the terminology.

For me, it's:

Fleets are ad-hoc ship groupings, or executions of STRATOPs.

Wings are sub-groups established to operate in a given area of responsibility (should the need arise).

Groups are Fleet Groups (as defined in the prior post).

And Flights are established within a Fleet within the framework of Star Citizen's fleet mechanic as groups of 2 to 6 craft.

Let's not adopt any official structures from the military, @Salt Lake, okay? The minute we move in that direction, is the instant we've shot ourselves in the foot. Let creativity be our advantage, not rigidity.

I wasn't, you were the one suggesting it with your links and the original bringing it up. This can be brought up in another forum thread, this is about the council not TEST organizational structure

 

[NKato]

I wasn't, you were the one suggesting it with your links and the original bringing it up. This can be brought up in another forum thread, this is about the council not TEST organizational structure

Sure. :p Are you on Steam right now? Because if so, you need to accept my friend request so we can talk.

That aside, this exploration council will be a very useful test case for seeing if any future such councils - or expanding the necessity of a council - will be useful.

 

[honcho12]

The reason I don't agree with Salt Lake's approximation of the tiers, is because fleets are formed in-game, and that can cause further confusion with the terminology.

For me, it's:

Fleets are ad-hoc ship groupings, or executions of STRATOPs.

Wings are sub-groups established to operate in a given area of responsibility (should the need arise).

Groups are Fleet Groups (as defined in the prior post).

And Flights are established within a Fleet within the framework of Star Citizen's fleet mechanic as groups of 2 to 6 craft.

Let's not adopt any official structures from the military, @Salt Lake, okay? The minute we move in that direction, is the instant we've shot ourselves in the foot. Let creativity be our advantage, not rigidity.

I was joking bub, TEST always rhymes with BEST and any other word will always rhyme with itself.

The moral of the story is have another drink!

 

[Black Sunder]

Getting back on track and away from the last few posts about what we call things because that ISN"T THE POINT OF THIS THREAD.

So getting back to the original intent and so I don't blow a fuse figuring out what is what, I will say that I like the idea of such a gathering to share information and determine overarching goals so we reap the maximum for whatever we set out to do. Whether you want to call it a Council, Body, Cabinet, or Conclave or whatever is fine, at this point it doesn't matter. It is a loose structure to share ideas.

My own Survey Exploration Branch I think I spell out rather well what its intended purpose is for which is to survey fields or gas clouds after they are found either by us or others, map them, determine yields or material to be had and be first respondents to derelict ships we run across as well as be inspectors to determine if a ship is worth saving. And lastly we'll be backup exploration for for ourselves to be self sufficient in the absence of information on where we maybe should go.

For now you can count me in and on the list.

 

[NKato]

Getting back on track and away from the last few posts about what we call things because that ISN"T THE POINT OF THIS THREAD.

So getting back to the original intent and so I don't blow a fuse figuring out what is what, I will say that I like the idea of such a gathering to share information and determine overarching goals so we reap the maximum for whatever we set out to do. Whether you want to call it a Council, Body, Cabinet, or Conclave or whatever is fine, at this point it doesn't matter. It is a loose structure to share ideas.

My own Survey Exploration Branch I think I spell out rather well what its intended purpose is for which is to survey fields or gas clouds after they are found either by us or others, map them, determine yields or material to be had and be first respondents to derelict ships we run across as well as be inspectors to determine if a ship is worth saving. And lastly we'll be backup exploration for for ourselves to be self sufficient in the absence of information on where we maybe should go.

For now you can count me in and on the list.

Just remember, the proposal I have given to TEST Squadron's leadership will be taking into account primary specialization for assignment to divisions, not secondary specializations. So Rock Raiders could run a small exploration capability for all I care, as long as it's focused with the express objective of - as you said - surveying.

So in that idea, it'd be like, Exploration groups get some general points of interest data packets, and they pass them along to Rock Raiders. RR would then send a specialist survey group to take mineral and gas readings, and get a better idea of how much a POI has in the way of resources.

That way, the exploration-generalist/specialist groups don't waste too much time with the rock/gas surveying, and instead focus on information of greater strategic and tactical value: Stellar Cartography. The more we map out a solar system, the better the advantages are for TEST Squadron. The more jump points we find, the better off we are.

From now on, we should introduce POI (Points of Interest) as official exploration terminology to refer to any object of interest for further analysis.

 

[Wolf Lord Caldersson]

Getting back on track and away from the last few posts about what we call things because that ISN"T THE POINT OF THIS THREAD.

So getting back to the original intent and so I don't blow a fuse figuring out what is what, I will say that I like the idea of such a gathering to share information and determine overarching goals so we reap the maximum for whatever we set out to do. Whether you want to call it a Council, Body, Cabinet, or Conclave or whatever is fine, at this point it doesn't matter. It is a loose structure to share ideas.

My own Survey Exploration Branch I think I spell out rather well what its intended purpose is for which is to survey fields or gas clouds after they are found either by us or others, map them, determine yields or material to be had and be first respondents to derelict ships we run across as well as be inspectors to determine if a ship is worth saving. And lastly we'll be backup exploration for for ourselves to be self sufficient in the absence of information on where we maybe should go.

For now you can count me in and on the list.

That's the exact point, someone says they want to mine a gas cloud, we post the contract up, you contact the POC, make profit. Can I add your list to the list of groups to join us?

"A captain's goal was simple: Buy a ship, find a crew, find a job, keep flying."

 

[Black Sunder]

Can I add your list to the list of groups to join us?

For now you can count me in and on the list.

 

[Space Monkey]

I like it. This is specifically for Exploration. Can we assume that this structure will appear in other Wings as well?
*Thoughts*
Once the other wings are organized like racing, mining, and others, we can get one representative from each to create a sort of overall wing counsel with Montoya and Seung.

 

[NKato]

Regarding Infinity Squad, I think I've come up with a better focus for it: Infinity Squad would be focused on more specialist needs of exploration.

That is to say, we handle high-risk exploration jobs.

Example. DSET is exploring System X, when they discover a lot of threats, and it creates an area-denial situation that prevents the average TEST explorer from doing his job.

Ring-ring-batphone the Infinity Squad guys.

Infinity Squad: "Right, time to drag Ol' Betsy outta the hangar and strap some souped up engines on 'er. We'll be in and out in a jiffy with the info you need."

Cue Top Gun montage of an old, refurbished Vanguard with some crazy-ass engine overclocks, stripped down internals for weight conservation, and a Sentinel sensor package. They go in, get a full picture, and get out with little more than a few holes in the fuselage, and provide TEST with the results.

 

[NKato]

I like it. This is specifically for Exploration. Can we assume that this structure will appear in other Wings Fleet Groups as well?
*Thoughts*
Once the other wings Fleet Groups are organized like racing, mining, and others, we can get one representative from each to create a sort of overall wing Fleet Group counsel with Montoya and Seung.

Corrected for clarity; I am a stickler for these details because I do not want to use "wings" loosely right now. We're actually in the middle of beginning to become organized, and using terms that can induce further confusion is inadvisable.

Nitpicking aside, we've already got a racing group, and I've strongly advised that it should be treated as a "freelance" group that shops around for sponsorships internally at TEST (much like how an actual racing team in NASCAR shops around for sponsors to fund their racing and R&D). In my opinion, they shouldn't have a significant say in how TEST operates or runs, and can be left to their own devices if it benefits them the most.

I think the best term you're trying to look for as an alternative to "wings" are "Field Disciplines" - Pathfinding (exploration), Mining, Combat, Patrols, etc.

Personally, I believe we'll end up bringing together the leadership from each Flight Group/Squad in a single unified council with subcommittees that are dedicated to each field discipline. It's not at all unlike a political/social governance body (read: congress with their fetish for committees).

So say we have a Fleet Group Council as a primary council that is attended to by sitting squad/fleet group leaders, and then several committees (each committes dedicated to a specific field discipline) under that are run by either the fleet group/squad leaders, or their handpicked subordinates.

EDIT: This enables us to have people within a specific Field Discipline communicate with each other without having to call a council meeting. So if TEST leadership adopts this concept, the Exploration Council - upon official adoption - would then be classified as an Exploration Committee.