Exploration Official Exploration Council

[NKato]

Im going to have to object to the term "official group" here.

Lets say 10,000 members in TEST by the time the game starts, we end up with 1800 different exploration groups.

That is going to be one giant shit show.

If you and 5 friends jump into a Carrack, you do not automatically become an official group. You are just in an exploration ship with some friends, that is all. You can jump into comms, let everybody know you are going exploring, grab some extra members and do it. You do not become an official group with your own fancy logo and name.

In other words, Fleet Groups/Squads are probably going to be more like this:

Guy wants to create a fleet group for exploration. He drafts up the overall mission statement, and provides a general idea of its focused activities, and submits it to upper leadership (divisional or Montoya-level) for approval. If approved, it becomes an official fleet group/squad.

That fleet group then gets official support from the division it's assigned to - this can come in the form of funding, hangar assignments, among other things. (And as an important note: Fleet Groups can decline any high priority orders, in keeping with TEST's all-volunteer nature.)

That aside, this exploration council will be an excellent test case for seeing how we "crosstalk" and interact with each other. My Infinity isn't officially established yet, but I do plan on starting up a forum thread asking for more current interested members to sign up, and to participate in helping develop the Council model; the original Infinity Squad thread was meant to be a brainstorm, and now I have a better idea of what direction I want to take it in regarding the exploration profession, among other professions.

 

[Montoya]

Guy wants to create a fleet group for exploration. He drafts up the overall mission statement, and provides a general idea of its focused activities, and submits it to upper leadership (divisional or Montoya-level) for approval. If approved, it becomes an official fleet group/squad.

Oh god no!

If Guy wants to go exploring for the next few weeks, jump in a ship, take some friends and go. No need to submit missions statements, just go have fun.

You do not become an official fleet just because you and 9 friends want to go exploring for a month.

(And as an important note: Fleet Groups can decline any high priority orders, in keeping with TEST's all-volunteer nature.)

Um no.

If you are an official fleet and we need to find a new jump point or route to get somewhere urgently, are you going to decline the orders because you would rather go look at a comet this evening?

If you are an official fleet, you are part of a larger machine that needs all the pieces working together.

 

[NKato]

Oh god no!

If Guy wants to go exploring for the next few weeks, jump in a ship, take some friends and go. No need to submit missions statements, just go have fun.

You do not become an official fleet just because you and 9 friends want to go exploring for a month.

You misunderstood. x_x What you described (as highlighted in bold) is a pickup group, not an official group. Official groups are basically like DSET, Rock Raiders, etc. It's why I wanted to define them as "Fleet Groups", because they're officially part of the TEST Fleet, rather than a pickup group that goes around "Doin' Wut I Want™".

Um no.

If you are an official fleet and we need to find a new jump point or route to get somewhere urgently, are you going to decline the orders because you would rather go look at a comet this evening?

Aren't we all-volunteer in the first place? Well, whatever. If someone doesn't like having to follow orders in a squad/group, they can just quit the group and join another. I get the point that we need to be able to have the ability to carry out necessities in a timely manner - I'd just rather have the squad-to-division/top leadership relationship be organic, rather than something that's forced.

 

[mromutt]

Im going to have to object to the term "official group" here.

Lets say 10,000 members in TEST by the time the game starts, we end up with 1800 different exploration groups.

That is going to be one giant shit show.

If you and 5 friends jump into a Carrack, you do not automatically become an official group. You are just in an exploration ship with some friends, that is all. You can jump into comms, let everybody know you are going exploring, grab some extra members and do it. You do not become an official group with your own fancy logo and name.

I meant all have a right to be explorers and no one can tell them they cant :P

 

[mromutt]

So now that we are working on a spreadsheet that deals with charting and data of said charts I thought it best we do it here as its part of exploration and all the people on the project are in the exploration groups.

 

[NKato]

So now that we are working on a spreadsheet that deals with charting and data of said charts I thought it best we do it here as its part of exploration and all the people on the project are in the exploration groups.

Categories: jump size limits, average distance between jump points in the system, POIs (points of interest), economic value rating based on harvestable commodities and market import/export, number of planets, largest and smallest celestial orbits, what else am I forgetting?

 

[mromutt]

Categories: jump size limits, average distance between jump points in the system, POIs (points of interest), economic value rating based on harvestable commodities and market import/export, number of planets, largest and smallest celestial orbits, what else am I forgetting?

I think populations and what those populations are made of is important too. I.E. Pirates, UEE, civ's, and what kind of market they possess.

 

[Major Templar]

Um no.

If you are an official fleet and we need to find a new jump point or route to get somewhere urgently, are you going to decline the orders because you would rather go look at a comet this evening?

If you are an official fleet, you are part of a larger machine that needs all the pieces working together.

I'd love a little clarification if you would please.

Are you saying that if you are directly engaged within a fleet action with others say "flying in formation" or what ever it may be in this given case, that you can't just up and leave? Or are you simply referring to the squad as the "fleet" meaning that if we logged in, decided to do our own thing, and were given an order that we must obey?

I think a clarification of this will help for future discussions down the road.

On a personal note, I do fully believe that no one that's part of a current fleet action should ever abandon that fleet unless RL demands it. Nothing worse than having someone leave to go trade/make money still logged in. With that said, if it's the second and I'd sincerely hope it wasn't, I would agree that a person who has not agreed to commit any of their daily time to helping out should not be required to drop what they may want to do just because someone asks. It would be nice that should someone ask and you have the time, help but you should not be under any obligation to do it.

 

[Wolf Lord Caldersson]

I'd love a little clarification if you would please.

Are you saying that if you are directly engaged within a fleet action with others say "flying in formation" or what ever it may be in this given case, that you can't just up and leave? Or are you simply referring to the squad as the "fleet" meaning that if we logged in, decided to do our own thing, and were given an order that we must obey?

I think a clarification of this will help for future discussions down the road.

On a personal note, I do fully believe that no one that's part of a current fleet action should ever abandon that fleet unless RL demands it. Nothing worse than having someone leave to go trade/make money still logged in. With that said, if it's the second and I'd sincerely hope it wasn't, I would agree that a person who has not agreed to commit any of their daily time to helping out should not be required to drop what they may want to do just because someone asks. It would be nice that should someone ask and you have the time, help but you should not be under any obligation to do it.

If we have a mission such as find a bengal, we cant have everyone just saying "nah no profit" and just leaving the mission abandoned. Same with actions in combat. Cant have the Commander say "major perform a torp run on that capship" and you go nah i dont want to.

TEC and all explorers still fall under TEST, and TEST missions come first and foremost when dictated that they need to be.

 

[Wolf Lord Caldersson]

Categories: jump size limits, average distance between jump points in the system, POIs (points of interest), economic value rating based on harvestable commodities and market import/export, number of planets, largest and smallest celestial orbits, what else am I forgetting?

Enemy sightings (both npc and player), and hazardous conditions (enviroment or alien lifeform invasion). Other than that pretty much hit everything. Id like to keep these seperate from POIs as they can be overlooked. These should be very apparant if you are looking at the map so people are not losing ships.

 

[Wolf Lord Caldersson]

I am proud to say I have acquired a Idris ladies and testies. It my own personal one, but if a squad has need of it I am willing to lend it out, with terms ( you pay for any upgrades lost as example)

 

[NKato]

I am proud to say I have acquired a Idris ladies and testies. It my own personal one, but if a squad has need of it I am willing to lend it out, with terms ( you pay for any upgrades lost as example)

Good job, you crazy bastard.

 

[Wolf Lord Caldersson]

Good job, you crazy bastard.

I f I was sane I wouldnt be doing my RL job, or trying to lead you lot. Montoya is probably toe most insane person here.

 

[Major Templar]

If we have a mission such as find a bengal, we cant have everyone just saying "nah no profit" and just leaving the mission abandoned. Same with actions in combat. Cant have the Commander say "major perform a torp run on that capship" and you go nah i dont want to.

TEC and all explorers still fall under TEST, and TEST missions come first and foremost when dictated that they need to be.

And I understand, if you are engaged in an action then call for people to step up and assist at their own will then while you are out you will need to be able to depend on them following orders. That said, just because someone is in a group/squad on the forums doesn't automatically mean they are obligated to always be there no matter what and follow orders even when they don't feel like doing anything with anyone.

 

[NKato]

And I understand, if you are engaged in an action then call for people to step up and assist at their own will then while you are out you will need to be able to depend on them following orders. That said, just because someone is in a group/squad on the forums doesn't automatically mean they are obligated to always be there no matter what and follow orders even when they don't feel like doing anything with anyone.

Right, we know this. I view TEST in the lens of an all volunteer Org. Anyone can opt out of something as long as it's appropriate.

 

[Mitoh]

But on top of that, if you don't show up often to the group missions, etc. don't expect to get invited on the cooler runs that are likely to net higher profits and be popular.

 

[mromutt]

But on top of that, if you don't show up often to the group missions, etc. don't expect to get invited on the cooler runs that are likely to net higher profits and be popular.

Thats a good point.

 

[NKato]

But on top of that, if you don't show up often to the group missions, etc. don't expect to get invited on the cooler runs that are likely to net higher profits and be popular.

Exactly right. Participation is a gateway to greener pastures, so to speak.

 

[Unshaven]

I think CIG is the solution to Orgs and their Member/Mission management.

I was just looking around the forums for where the fleet list is. I figured there must be something like that somewhere. I.E. a master list of the Org's members and ships, etc.
I was also looking for more info on how Test was planning on handling some of the mission management as this is a common issue with all the orgs.

It seems that Test's biggest plus (freedom) may also become its biggest weakness (chaos) if left totally unchecked.
Like the old saying, a group of people without co-ordination is called a mob.

Information is key here I think and this is a problem all the orgs are wrestling with. I don't think it's going to be easy for any org to come up with a solution that really works (on their own), in real time, that a player who logs in can access and make use of that actually works for everyone (in the org).


-So I think the BEST solution would be to have CIG create an Org Management System (for all the orgs) and implement this in game. That would make org management easy on everyone as CIG already has real time access to all the ships a player has in their hanger, commerical missions, etc. They are the true gatekeepers and everyone is just trying to re-invent the wheel here (information wise).

-Such a system could include external and internal org and non-org missions by type, priority, locations, ship and manpower needed. It would also provide metrics and asset management. Members could access this via their Mobi-Glass and sign up for whatever is needed to fulfill the requirements. It could even have mission profit sharing, etc. Mission creation control may be kept in house or loosen it up to let the members create org missions. Which and who gets control would be with org management. That would give org managers real time ability of allowing their orgs the freedom to enjoy the verse, yet pull together the assets they need when the shit hits the fan.

With an in game org fleet management system, not only would orgs be able to manage their internal ships, members and missions in whatever manner they want, but leadership would find it easier to deal with and work with other orgs as well if they wanted to do a co-op mission so to speak or to share a profit in something with other orgs.

 

[Gearen]

Now I have a Carrack LTI..... can I help?