1 cap vs 10 sub-cap

[Shadow Reaper]

I regularly run wargame scenarios, and most commonly, what it will take to board and take over a Polaris. I think it can be done with 7 Vanguards and 14 players: 2 Sentinels, 4 Hoplites and 1 Warden (to respawn boarding party PC's who die in combat on the conflict site.) Vanguards use speed to run down larger ships. This is just 30 boarding characters to take a ship with 25 aboard, which is stretching things very slim. This would be an absolute minimum and there are many ways an assault like this could fail.

Lately I have been looking at how to use the Prowler effectively. I think it definitely needs both fire support from some missile-boat(s) and some sort of distraction which might also be served by the missile boats. 2 Prowlers and 4 Stalkers, including 12 players and 52 NPCs total, should be more than enough to take down a Polaris. In fact replacing one of the Stalkers with a Warlock would make good sense and require 6 less NPC's.

There are always combinations like this that can work, but finding one that works well, often and under a host of conditions is really the issue. You want to know you have more than what is necessary to do the job and go in with overwhelming force, but you also don't want a strike team that is twice the size it needs to be, because you then get half the loot, and no self respecting privateer can afford to live outside luxury.

 

[Aramil]

Without being to deep.

The smaller craft should win, because the Cap ship should have some close support. it's like having a destoryer without support cruisers/firgates or fighter cover, it's a sitting duck. OK it has lots of fire power/point defense, but it's slow and it's defenses can't be trained on everything around it all of the time.

It needs the cover/distraction of fighters/lighter craft, to be able to pick of it's attackers.

 

[Printimus]

Without being to deep.

The smaller craft should win, because the Cap ship should have some close support. it's like having a destoryer without support cruisers/firgates or fighter cover, it's a sitting duck. OK it has lots of fire power/point defense, but it's slow and it's defenses can't be trained on everything around it all of the time.

It needs the cover/distraction of fighters/lighter craft, to be able to pick of it's attackers.

I agree.

 

[Cherokeedog]

I was using a very brief example of ships i could think of off the top of my head.

Didn't mean to sound pissed off or anything. More like a beer voice if you want.

Now, to actually provide a pertinent answer, I'd say you'd need some E-WAR fighters to confuse the capital's ship systems and also to take down its shields faster, some dogfighters to catch the eye of the pilots and keep the focus on them, maybe even blow off turrets while they're at it, and at the end: bombers, for makin' big freakin' holes. I'd choose Harbingers over Retaliators for bombers, because Retaliators are big enough and slow enough to be a preferred target for a capital ship.

But all in all, a capital ship without some smaller fighter support is indeed a sitting duck. Now, of course, if the small ships can only sting and pinch (like sending 10 Mustangs against a frigate), the capital ship would probably leave when the pilot gets bored of shootin' flies with a cannon.

 

[Shadow Reaper]

Seen how you can usually find an angle where you are below the angle the capital ships turrets can turn, right on the skin of the ship. Meaning you can keep firing at that hull unopposed.

IIRC, the caps ships are the only ships in the game that do not include a blind spot so far as fire return is concerned. Even the Polaris tips its hat at the blind spot mechanism, in that there is at least one if not two (looks like two) unmanned turrets aft. These are less effective than manned turrets. IIRC, all the other cap ships have no blind spots and use all manned turrets.

 

[NaffNaffBobFace]

I would like to throw the Reclaimer in to the mix - If you can get a section of turrets taken out a reclaimer is just made to eat other ships alive. Also, as Caps are slow and heavy a slow and heavy cargo container jammed with explosive is not going to have much trouble hitting its target. Combine the above with the area you are fighting in. Imagine the issues a Javelin is going to have close to a Gravity Well, atmosphere, asteroid field or pair of moons.

 

[Grimm_Reaper]

1) Use talis to weaken back of cap/get engines offline

2) Reedemers & Vanguard sentenials for cover fire and emp vs fighters and Idris turrets

3) Get reclaimer to use giant arms to reclaim ship from behind.

4) Hull E for storage of reclaimed Idris parts

5) BMM for slave selling of crew

 

[Printimus]

I would like to throw the Reclaimer in to the mix - If you can get a section of turrets taken out a reclaimer is just made to eat other ships alive. Also, as Caps are slow and heavy a slow and heavy cargo container jammed with explosive is not going to have much trouble hitting its target. Combine the above with the area you are fighting in. Imagine the issues a Javelin is going to have close to a Gravity Well, atmosphere, asteroid field or pair of moons.

I like your style!

 

[Printimus]

5) BMM for slave selling of crew

Going back to the dark ages are we?

 

[DarthMunkee]

I would like to throw the Reclaimer in to the mix - If you can get a section of turrets taken out a reclaimer is just made to eat other ships alive. Also, as Caps are slow and heavy a slow and heavy cargo container jammed with explosive is not going to have much trouble hitting its target. Combine the above with the area you are fighting in. Imagine the issues a Javelin is going to have close to a Gravity Well, atmosphere, asteroid field or pair of moons.

This is some out of the box thinking. We are going to have to try this when these things get in game.

 

[Grimm_Reaper]

Going back to the dark ages are we?

Its inhumane to just throw them out the hatch, and I aint gonna feed them, plus BMM is the only one with enough life support

 

[Printimus]

Its inhumane to just throw them out the hatch, and I aint gonna feed them, plus BMM is the only one with enough life support

At least you can back up your reasoning......

 

[Shadow Reaper]

Even the smallest cap ship, the Polaris; is too large for the Reclaimer to manage, and those S10 torpedoes could not miss such a large and slow target.

 

[Grimm_Reaper]

Even the smallest cap ship, the Polaris; is too large for the Reclaimer to manage, and those S10 torpedoes could not miss such a large and slow target.

Yep hence the Hull E. The reclaimer technically has space to salvage 1 connie sized ship

 

[Mich Angel]

Was having an interesting conversation today on discord about whether a manned capital ship would win or not against 10 sub-capital ships. Now the sub capital ships would obviously not be all the same, but a squadron of different types.

Who do you think would win? What 10 ships would you use to overcome said capital ship?

Bah! ha ha ha....

Do it the TEST way! Then you only need 3 fighters one Sabre jump in and aim toward bridge go to max cruse speed fire all missiles and shoot all you got right in to the bridge of the Captial ship. Eject with good distance so you not get killed by explosion and let the Sabre crash in to the bridge. That'll take care of any more manuvering of the capital ship :imp:

Have 2 Vanguard or similar fast ship with room for two stranded pilots, that is fairly easy to get in to fast.
They jump in just after good enought time for the Sabre to hit the bridge, 1st. Vanguard do the same as the Sabre right in to the bridge, 2nd Vanguard pick up the stranded pilots then jump away. Done! :smile:

:stuck_out_tongue_winking_eye:

 

[DarthMunkee]

Even the smallest cap ship, the Polaris; is too large for the Reclaimer to manage, and those S10 torpedoes could not miss such a large and slow target.

Still would be fun to try.

 

[Adiran]

Depends

Some heralds talis maybe some warlocks would be good because that's what they are designed for

If it was just 10 fighters no because that would make fighters too good and that would make all other ships obsolete and make the game pretty shitty

Can you imagine just taking saber or super hornets and winning that would be the most boring game ever

Who has the most hornets or sabers etc

Now if i had a team that was gearing up to take an idris
i would have way more fun working together with the hearalds to get the shields down for the talis to come in and drop some torps or cutlass/prowlers to board the ship

if i take 10 hornets everywhere and expect to win this game would be garbage

My list for taking down a idris with the bareminimum

3 heralds
3 talis
3 cutlass with boarding crew
the maybe a gladiator

Heralds jump in first and get to work/distraction followed by cutlass firing at the idris
talis and gladiators roll in

Once shields are down board

If shields wont go down or losing to many ships kill it with torps or pull back

Way more interesting contains a fall back plan different elements and a chance to capture it

Will capital shields prevent you from boarding? The shields being up on any ship now doesn't prevent you from being able to board it. So unless they add that feature to capital ships (i hope they don't) then boaring can be a way to drop the shields before the torpedo attack.

you engage the enemy fleet with our fleet and they have a idris on grid. we engage the sub capitals with ours to distract them from the prowler or two sneaking up on the idris. once the strike teams are in we move the fight to right on top of the idris as the battle inside rages we bring in our torp ships or our polaris and once the shields are down we torpedo and cripple the engines and guns. mopp up the rest of the enemy fleet and repair the idris as a prize if we can scuttle it if we can't.

 

[Printimus]

I am going to expand off of the reclaimer idea.....and say we have 4 reclaimers, each a different color, then have 5 caterpillars as viewing platforms, and for the last ship, a news van so we can televise the event.

We shall call it....HUNGRY HUNGRY HIPPOS

 

[NaffNaffBobFace]

When a Reclaimer is weaponised, it does not matter how much salvage you can fit inside it, you're punching through to the reactor of a Bengal, not stealing the Officers Mess to sell to the Million Mile High club.

Also: The Orion super-mining laser should cut through Cap Ship shields like butter...

Orion Lasers in the gaspers of Reclaimers...

EDIT - but yes I conced you would have to run support to ensure torpedoes don't see an end to the plan too early.

 

[NaffNaffBobFace]

I am going to expand off of the reclaimer idea.....and say we have 4 reclaimers, each a different color, then have 5 caterpillars as viewing platforms, and for the last ship, a news van so we can televise the event.

We shall call it....HUNGRY HUNGRY HIPPOS

I endorse this plan.