400i v Zeus Mk II ES

Shadow Reaper

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Just found this vid comparing these exploration ships. Since the Zeus reveal I’m waiting with baited breath on the ES, as it seems to address the few things I’m not crazy about with the 400i. The vid’s analysis is fair but misses some important points.

First, it appears the ES will have a significant edge with its S3 radar. The only other ship this size I’m aware of planned to have a large radar is the RSI Apollo. As one who is always hoping to see before being seen, this is a key feature to me. It is competing with the nice cartography table in the 400i, but we don’t know yet whether that’s going to actually generate gameplay, so the jury is out on this distinction.

Second big issue for me is the 400i runs 1 S3 shield, while the ES runs 4 S2 shields. Big difference. As many may recall, there are no S3 stealth components. Most of the time the 400i needs to fly with its shield off in order to “keep it secret; keep it safe.” It appears the ES may be able to manage some stealth with one or more shields on, and S2 shields ramp up to power much more quickly, as well as restore injuries much faster. If the ES has reactor shielding comparable to the excellent shielding in the 400i, it could turn out to be an even better stealth ship.

Finally, I’ll just put aesthetics and function together. Though I like the two level deck plan of the 400i, I’m not much the luxury guy and the ES is going to be faster and easier to navigate. This matters especially if you’re running caves solo, busting bunkers, or just making quick mission stops. I kinda prefer the simpler, less attractive, more boring deckplan of the ES.

So, just early thoughts. I’m excited to see another ship come into this class. The C1 is not really an explorer. You need to compare to the MSR, and though it has a lot to recommend it (especially including better range), it can’t be stealthed, so it’s not on my short list. Maybe the Zeus, though.

View: https://youtu.be/enDINLK7cao?si=JI-oQbXv4DletYW6
 

BUTUZ

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Well I love my 400i it's a great do a bit of everything ship I've got a Zeus but its the Cl as the extra cargo is handy.

4xs2 vs 1 x s3 is an interesting one, lower overall shield strength but faster regen. Fast regen is kinda no use when your shields are kept down though...
 

NomadicHavoc

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Nice video...thanks for sharing! I, likewise, might like to have a daily flyer that is faster and more stealthy. But, I also do love the look of the Zeus a lot.

Is there perhaps a 3:1 ratio between lets say size medium vs size large? So, can a ship with 3 medium fuel tanks go as far as a ship with 1 large fuel tank? Or, can a ship with 3 medium radar detect things as far away as 1 large radar?
 

Talonsbane

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Just a thought, IF the ES comes with 4xS2 shields, I'd imagine that if you replace a pair of them with Sukorans from the Banu to cover front & back from ballistic weapons with the other pair taking care of recharge speed & shield health pool, it would be a rather resilient ship.
 

Richard Bong

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Nice video...thanks for sharing! I, likewise, might like to have a daily flyer that is faster and more stealthy. But, I also do love the look of the Zeus a lot.

Is there perhaps a 3:1 ratio between lets say size medium vs size large? So, can a ship with 3 medium fuel tanks go as far as a ship with 1 large fuel tank? Or, can a ship with 3 medium radar detect things as far away as 1 large radar?
They haven't even begun to really the balance around fuel consumption. How much tank vs. how much does each size drive use. They haven't even really started balancing the tank size within one size of ship.
 

Shadow Reaper

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Or, can a ship with 3 medium radar detect things as far away as 1 large radar?
As with fuel management, we’ll have to wait to see. What CIG has said, is that with multiple radars you can check EM, IR and RCS simultaneously, or that you can take one radar (really should be “sensor”), and assign it high gain/low coverage to extend its range. So supposing that will happen, what does it mean?

This is not precisely accurate but close enough to manage some understanding: 1 decibel (db) gain is spherical radiation pattern or coverage—it is “omnidirectional”. 2 db is hemispherical. Everything above 2 is a smaller section of sky than hemispherical and the smaller the section, the higher the “gain” and your “sensitivity”, which is really the figure of merit, measured in decibels. So a 40 db antenna is roughly looking at 1/40 of the spherical pattern (not really but we’re looking for a simplistic answer). The higher the db rating, the higher the sensitivity and lower the portion of the spherical you are looking at.

So in radar turrets ranked S2, a high gain antenna like a parabolic dish would give S3 performance but only on a small portion of the spherical sky—it is “unidirectional”.

That’s how low/high gain and omni/unidirectional coverage works.

Given this, it is entirely possible a ship like the 400i could be set up with 1 omnidirectional antenna and two unidirectional antennas (parabolic) and each of the high gain parabolic would have the sensitivity of the Zeus’ S3, but only across a small portion of the sky. Which system works better then is determined by how long it takes the unidirectional antennas to sweep the entire sky, unless you already know where a target is and don’t need to sweep to find it. You’re just locked on it to watch or communicate with it.

Hope that makes sense. In general, bigger is better but high gain parabolics can mitigate this distinction.

What you probably cannot do is if you have a single “radar” or more properly “sensor”, is make it unidirectional/high gain, because that would leave you blind and unable to communicate across most of the sky. It is very likely that to be able to mount high gain antennas, you will need to have more than one sensor array. So the Zeus would not be able to improve its S3 sensor sensitivity with parabolics, but the 400i would be able to mount 2 separate parabolics that each give S3 sensitivity on a small portion of the sky.
 
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Talonsbane

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I'm just hoping that with this battle between the ES & 400i, that the Terrapin will still have a special place in this discussion, since scanning & scouting is its purpose.
 
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Shadow Reaper

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Just a thought, IF the ES comes with 4xS2 shields, I'd imagine that if you replace a pair of them with Sukorans from the Banu to cover front & back from ballistic weapons with the other pair taking care of recharge speed & shield health pool, it would be a rather resilient ship.
I dunno. Originally, the Sukorans were the first boy shields to provide defense against ballistics, so I always justified ownership of a Defender or Prowler in order to put their Sukorans on the Sentinel. Now the original claims you can’t buy Sukorans without their ships are under dispute, and some ballistic defense has been threatened to go to other shields, so it’s hard to know when or whether CIG will keep their word on anything.

Certainly though, pairing better ballistic defense and low power requirements of the Sukorans with the higher refresh of the FR-76, is a winning combo. And quite frankly, with any ship you want to stealth, multiple stealth components are just easily the better choice over a single, non-stealth component. The 400i is a great stealth ship but only with shield off. Unless CIG screws the pooch, the Zeus offers a step up with stealth shields of multiple kinds.

What’s killing’ me is waiting on the forth Zeus II version. That’s just gotta be a thing. ES radar and shields paired with the armory and extra turret of the MR. . .count me in.
 

BUTUZ

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I'm just hoping that with this battle between the ES & 400i, that the Terrapin will still have a special place in this discussion, since scanning & scouting is its purpose.
Theres always someone with a bigger









luxury vessel

1707690885197.png
 

Talonsbane

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A 4th Zeus MK 2 would be interesting, but with the 3 variants so far covering exploration, combat / bounty hunting & cargo hauling, I'm not sure what the 4th type would cover. Perhaps data running? I doubt that RSI would make a medical version given that the Apollo isn't that much different size wise.

Truth be told, I'm actually more eager to learn more about the base building module for the Galaxy, especially its price & capabilities. This might be a bit off topic from the Zeus, but at least I kept it in the family. ;p
 

Shadow Reaper

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There are several vids arguing for different notions for the missing Zeus. I can only say what I’m hoping for. In a universe at war, it is strange indeed there are no ships in scout configuration. Only smallish explorers put some slight emphasis on such design and my guess is the reason behind this is CIG doesn’t ever want to give the majority what they really want. After all, you could put more coolers in virtually any ship. Who wouldn’t buy that? Thing is, if you build a Zeus everyone wants, all the other Zeus go unsold. So yeah, no. I doubt we’ll see what I would hope for.

On the Terrapin, if you like the Y-Wing Longprobe, you’ll love the Terrapin. Just keep in mind it is not really an explorer so much as a spy ship. It’s missing storage and other civilian conveniences replaced with armor. LOTS of armor. This ship isn’t going to shine the way intended until armor comes in game. Then I think it will get many fresh luvs. It’s a very cool ship. Sure wish they gave it a second bunk, internal 4 SCU grav plates, some cabinet storage and a deployable dinette. IMHO it needs a slight rework across the aft bulkhead. Just can’t waste space on a ship this size. The second seat. . .some love it. Some hate it. I think it’s iconic. It says “we are on mission”. It rocks.
 
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Talonsbane

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I kinda wish that they would create a Terrapin drop ship. Either way, the Tarrapin is one of my most favorite looking small ships. I do hope that it finds some gameplay traction.
If CIG was to make a Terrapin variant that was a drop ship, I believe that they'd replace the bed area with a cargo grid that would hold 2x2 SCU stacked vertically with the walls holding 4 jump seats across from the door & a single jump seat on each side of the door. Leaving the middle of the ship for the fighters to form up just before the door opens. That's my mental image of it anyways. Your thoughts?
 

Bambooza

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If CIG was to make a Terrapin variant that was a drop ship, I believe that they'd replace the bed area with a cargo grid that would hold 2x2 SCU stacked vertically with the walls holding 4 jump seats across from the door & a single jump seat on each side of the door. Leaving the middle of the ship for the fighters to form up just before the door opens. That's my mental image of it anyways. Your thoughts?
A dream come true would be a terrapin drop ship as it would fit and be so useful to the Polaris.
 

NaffNaffBobFace

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To me, the Terrapin would be a great ship to buy in game. Something to work towards. That, and it's brother from another mother - the Legionnaire. I really dig that ship as well.
I wonder if we'll need a certain reputation level with the Empire to get ships used in the UEEN? For example I'd expect anyone to be able to get the Starfarer minus pirate clans MISC don't like, but the Starfarer Gemini may well be locked behind a Reputation wall only accessible to those friendly with the UEE, with all the implications that has for you when going to the Edge Words...?
 
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