A crazy thought has crossed my mind... (games a service)

[Lorddarthvik]

A strange crazy thing popped into my mind while watching a vid on "games as service" topic. Beer with me for a second here and try to follow my (obviously twisted) logic:
EA, Actiblizz, and their ilk are all pushing for this bullshit called "games as live service" model, which basically means the following:
- release a game early, with bare minimum content, full of bugs and barely running, but includes a perfectly workin micro transactions shop
- keep developing the game and keep adding content using the funds raised with the initial sale of the game
- give the players a way to spend more money after the initial game release, by selling in game items and stuff like passes and such to rake in more money while the players wait for the game to be actually completed
- do this for as long as the idiots, khmmn I mean fans, keep the funding going


Sounds familiar?
Yes, that's what I'm trying to get at:
Star Citizen is the ultimate "games as a service" game!
( with the small but important difference, that it calls itself by it's true name, an Alpha test! )
So we can conclude that it's CR and Star Citizens, and by following the money to its source, it's Your Fault ( and mine ofc) that EA and Bethesda and the rest are so greedy and released broken half completed games like F76 and Anthem!!!

Ofc my "factual analysis" conveniently ignored a lot of what's happening in actual reality. I guess I'd make a great writer for Kotaku, or even Forbes!
-end of bs
I'll go have another beer or 15 so I forget this ever happened.

ps.: while writing this down I realized that SC, the mmo part, even after release will continue to do the same thing it does today so it will really be a perfect example of games as a service. There is nothing wrong with that as long as the game and the service is good...

Ps2: EA is now calling early-access / open beta testing as Soft Launch. So we can buy into broken games before they are complete, because it's now called a soft launch instead of simple Scam!
Yay!

 

[Montoya]

CIG stumbled onto something which has left EA and other game publishers scratching their heads.

CIG has 1000's of alpha testers who have paid for the privilege of finding bugs! They work free of charge, never need lunch breaks, never need vacation days and always keep providing feedback on how to improve the game.

If only Anthem did the same thing, it would have been an amazing game!

 

[Ammorn]

One thing that will change with Star Citizen after launch is that they won't sell ships, and the only thing they'll sell is in game money with a monthly capped amount of so that someone couldn't buy their way to the richest in-game user or financially ruin themselves due to lack of self control. It's supposed to be both a way for CIG to pull in some funds for further development on later installations of S42, and additions to SC, and a way for people that don't have time to play the game and earn money in game to get in game money. I'd say it's not really pay to win since you can earn everything in game that you can buy, and the best things you can't buy and need to be earned in game. That's what CIG is going for.

So yes, it is a bit of a Game As A Service setup, but it's the most honest and least predatory cash grab style that I've seen.

 

[Vavrik]

One thing that will change with Star Citizen after launch is that they won't sell ships, and the only thing they'll sell is in game money with a monthly capped amount of so that someone couldn't buy their way to the richest in-game user or financially ruin themselves due to lack of self control. It's supposed to be both a way for CIG to pull in some funds for further development on later installations of S42, and additions to SC, and a way for people that don't have time to play the game and earn money in game to get in game money. I'd say it's not really pay to win since you can earn everything in game that you can buy, and the best things you can't buy and need to be earned in game. That's what CIG is going for.

So yes, it is a bit of a Game As A Service setup, but it's the most honest and least predatory cash grab style that I've seen.

Valid points to a point. SC is an excellent example of P2W and Game as service. I have no idea how they're going to wean themselves from ship sales, other than a monthly subscription. I don't mind for adults, but SC is available from age 13 and up. I'm not sure what kind of protection there is, if any, from a 13 year old player stealing Mommy's Visa and charging up a couple of thousand on a Saturday night especially as refunds become hard to obtain. I suspect we're going to see an increase in the minimum age to play SC.

 

[Bambooza]

Valid points to a point. SC is an excellent example of P2W and Game as service. I have no idea how they're going to wean themselves from ship sales, other than a monthly subscription. I don't mind for adults, but SC is available from age 13 and up. I'm not sure what kind of protection there is, if any, from a 13 year old player stealing Mommy's Visa and charging up a couple of thousand on a Saturday night especially as refunds become hard to obtain. I suspect we're going to see an increase in the minimum age to play SC.

It is a great question and I am not sure they have an answer to yet. I am sure a lot of funding will come from SQ42 releases but even then that would be cannibalized into future SQ42 release development time. For me the old school MMO price model was pretty clear cut with a monthly subscription paying for the server/CS overhead and the expansion purchase paid for the continued development.

Currently SC survives on ship sales to cover development costs and unless they plan on downsizing drastically afterwards how else will they pay for everything?

 

[Radegast74]

So I know a lot of people are joking around, but I'll be the dull lad and be serious here: I'm paying a lot of money to back the development of a game that would NOT get made any other way. If EA or another big publisher was involved, they would have pushed out something around 2.6.3, with loot boxes, made some incremental additions, and if it didn't give them FIFA level returns, they would never make a SC 2.

At least with CR, he will push the envelope and give us the game we've all been dreaming of. Yeah, it is taking time, but quality and pushing the envelope takes time.

I'll stop being serious now...re: the Forbes article...the big news to me is that CR is a man that women would fight over! lol...

 

[WaterShield]

I feel like the big difference is that Star Citizen never tried to lie about what it was. You paid for an unfinished game (for now) and got access to pre alpha / alpha builds.

If they say the game is "released" at initial launch and it's in that state... then things are different IMO. I feel like Bioware / EA backtracking on that front has hurt their credibility.

 

[Mich Angel]

I feel like the big difference is that Star Citizen never tried to lie about what it was. You paid for an unfinished game (for now) and got access to pre alpha / alpha builds.

If they say the game is "released" at initial launch and it's in that state... then things are different IMO. I feel like Bioware / EA backtracking on that front has hurt their credibility.

Took the words out of my mouth ha ha..

CIG have been open about the game development from start, that is what all other's have failed doing...
Hence I rather support CIG than any other backtracking, micro transaction loot box driven BS shit company...

Don't get how people like the so called journalist Forbes article assume I or any one was tricked to waste money.
I for one support with money I can be without and for that a hope of a new era in gaming history and as it seem that's where we are going.
So what if I hadn't put money in this project I sure would have as they say wasted my money on some other consumer product.
That most likely would have been something I don't really need or can enjoy for more than it last, which with consumer item this days usually is not that long.

As they say wasted..? So lets use that term wasted money then, I wasted over a period of 3+ years ruffly 300K+ on motorsport as a hobby.
Compare that to my resent hobby gaming I save money supporting CIG and I don't have to spend time getting battered by weather, long boring trips and costly over night accommodation.
If I want to enjoy the weather now I just wait until it's gorgeous outside and enjoy a great day outdoors in good weather, then when it's all shitty weather outside I have my hobby gaming.
And that hobby can take me to many amazing fantasy places and in the comfort of my home... what's not to like with that.

CHEERS!

 

[littlej0e]

I have no idea how they're going to wean themselves from ship sales, other than a monthly subscription.

Very important point here and certainly an interesting question. CIG will absolutely need to generate reoccurring income. A lot of it. Elite Dangerous is doing this mostly through selling ship skins, but I don't think selling skins and UEC is going cut it for SC.

Maybe a sub is the answer. Either that or a drastic monetization of all in-game cosmetics like clothing, weapons, etc. Otherwise, CIG will have no choice but to do a 180 on ship sales.

 

[Stickx1307]

CIG stumbled onto something which has left EA and other game publishers scratching their heads.

CIG has 1000's of alpha testers who have paid for the privilege of finding bugs! They work free of charge, never need lunch breaks, never need vacation days and always keep providing feedback on how to improve the game.

If only Anthem did the same thing, it would have been an amazing game!

I am so disappointed about Anthem......was really hoping it would be the Destiny killer.

 

[Ammorn]

It is a great question and I am not sure they have an answer to yet. I am sure a lot of funding will come from SQ42 releases but even then that would be cannibalized into future SQ42 release development time. For me the old school MMO price model was pretty clear cut with a monthly subscription paying for the server/CS overhead and the expansion purchase paid for the continued development.

Currently SC survives on ship sales to cover development costs and unless they plan on downsizing drastically afterwards how else will they pay for everything?

Like Bambooza said, I think when S42 comes out they'll make a lot of money off that and more people buying SC when it gets more attention and more people inevitably buy it. That and the people that are currently subscribed and throwing money at CIG will probably keep throwing money at them to keep pushing out further expansions of more campaigns of S42 and more content for SC, though I think just the price of an expansion would cover the development cost of it. They'd probably have to scale back at some point though. They've got a monumental budget and probably won't use most of it for development before release since they don't have a multimillion dollar advertisement budget like other big games that eat like half the budget. So they should be good for a little while I think.

 

[Lorddarthvik]

Like Bambooza said, I think when S42 comes out they'll make a lot of money off that and more people buying SC when it gets more attention and more people inevitably buy it. That and the people that are currently subscribed and throwing money at CIG will probably keep throwing money at them to keep pushing out further expansions of more campaigns of S42 and more content for SC, though I think just the price of an expansion would cover the development cost of it. They'd probably have to scale back at some point though. They've got a monumental budget and probably won't use most of it for development before release since they don't have a multimillion dollar advertisement budget like other big games that eat like half the budget. So they should be good for a little while I think.

Perfectly good points, except they do have a multimillion dollar advertisement budget! If I remember correctly, the guys that bought into the company for 40 something million! That money is supposed to be spent on marketing / advertising!

Just wanted to say that it's great to see that my mostly-shitpost has generated such great discussion about the issues of ongoing monetization of SC! TEST is truly the Best!


About the live service thingie: I have absolutely no problem with SC doing what it's doing, because they are open about it and they are putting every cent of it back in to the game, instead of paying out most if to the investors and CEOs like EA and the rest. That's why I think it works for now. In the long term, it's a good question, I guess we will have to wait and see what they come up with in a few years time.

@Mich Angel offtopic: you spent what on motorpsorts?? That sounds awesome! Did you have your own racing team, were you driving? I wanna know more!

 

[Mich Angel]

Perfectly good points, except they do have a multimillion dollar advertisement budget! If I remember correctly, the guys that bought into the company for 40 something million! That money is supposed to be spent on marketing / advertising!

Just wanted to say that it's great to see that my mostly-shitpost has generated such great discussion about the issues of ongoing monetization of SC! TEST is truly the Best!


About the live service thingie: I have absolutely no problem with SC doing what it's doing, because they are open about it and they are putting every cent of it back in to the game, instead of paying out most if to the investors and CEOs like EA and the rest. That's why I think it works for now. In the long term, it's a good question, I guess we will have to wait and see what they come up with in a few years time.

@Mich Angel offtopic: you spent what on motorpsorts?? That sounds awesome! Did you have your own racing team, were you driving? I wanna know more!

@Lorddarthvik
It was amateur level track racing, fun racing and 1/4 mile runs, on that some car exhibitions, so most cash went in to building cost of car, tuning, gas and maintenance then on that all the travels arrangement. etc.. etc.. As this country was not that big on mid range amateur racing at that time (it just got to expensive ha ha ha ) it was fun but never nothing serious that would cost a hell a lot more. Regardless how fun it was with the sponsors I manage to get, it still was to high a price to pay at that level so I abandoned it and went for something that was much closer to my heart PC gaming.

CHEERS!

 

[Michael]

Very important point here and certainly an interesting question. CIG will absolutely need to generate reoccurring income. A lot of it. Elite Dangerous is doing this mostly through selling ship skins, but I don't think selling skins and UEC is going cut it for SC.

Maybe a sub is the answer. Either that or a drastic monetization of all in-game cosmetics like clothing, weapons, etc. Otherwise, CIG will have no choice but to do a 180 on ship sales.

The problem is a lot of backers would be really mad. As it has been clearly announced as "subscription free"

I would be okay if longterm backers get a free lifetime subscription or at least x month free depending on their pledge. (eg. if you pledged 1000$ (15$ / month) = 5.6 years,
even then people will be mad and its something which CIG should communicate very carefully and very early on.

I myself already considered to buy ingame stuff with real money in an amount of 10-15$ for every month i play, to keep the game running.

Another option might be to keep on selling new concept ships after release. Which would also break their promises.

So if we as backers want a game which is free of p2w in the final game we all should consider buying cosmetic items to keep the game successful and running.

 

[Printimus]

Well, the devs cant work for free.... or rather they probably wouldnt want to.

 

[Montoya]

Currently SC survives on ship sales to cover development costs and unless they plan on downsizing drastically afterwards how else will they pay for everything?

Outsourcing their engine to other game devs.

Can you imaged a Star Wars game made with what we have here?

 

[Thalstan]

I can see them selling concept ships for real life money after release, but not existing ships (no more buying an Idris). Instead, for a limited time, you can buy a Yidris, which is the latest frigate out of Aegis that is set to replace the aging Idris. Also. The Harpoon, set to replace the Javelin, and the Sirius, set to replace the Polaris.

The Connie will be retired and and the new RSI Galaxy will replace it in the factory production. Once the supply of Connie’s are exhausted, you won’t be able to replace the with insurance anymore...

Also, access is free, but with a subscription, you have access the to additional subscriber only fuel stops. You also need a subscription to access this years new content...

 

[Thalstan]

And the subscriber only PVE shard

 

[littlej0e]

I can see them selling concept ships for real life money after release, but not existing ships (no more buying an Idris). Instead, for a limited time, you can buy a Yidris, which is the latest frigate out of Aegis that is set to replace the aging Idris. Also. The Harpoon, set to replace the Javelin, and the Sirius, set to replace the Polaris.

The Connie will be retired and and the new RSI Galaxy will replace it in the factory production. Once the supply of Connie’s are exhausted, you won’t be able to replace the with insurance anymore...

Also, access is free, but with a subscription, you have access the to additional subscriber only fuel stops. You also need a subscription to access this years new content...

Not a bad idea at all. Sort of a hybrid sub model similar to ESO. I like it...

 

[Shadow Reaper]

A strange crazy thing popped into my mind. . .

I try to have 4-5 such things happen before breakfast each morning and find this invigorating. Also, I like Zaphod's claim that "I get stranger things than you in my breakfast cereal."