Alternative/Loose Command Structure

[Blind Owl]

but the minute someone tells me to pick up a broom, red solo cups will be flying!

Hahaha, fucking combat arms.
Civies: "What do you do day to day in garrison"
Me: "I'm a combat janitor. I have broom and mop skills the likes of which you've never seen."

Haha

 

[Gneissnoggin]

.....beer.....

 

[Snakey]

.....beer.....

Does this post come with TL;DR translate?

 

[Mog_No_1]

Well firstly whether it be an unpopular opinion or not, I don't consider affiliate members as actual members. Infact I wish that was an option that would be removed altogether from the game. You cant just stick your fingers in everyones pie! o_O I've always been a black and white person.....you are or your not......you are a TESTie or your not.....cant be both.

Regardless of that, I'm more or less on the same wavelength as @Adiran. There needs to be some degree of structure otherwise TEST will be a total rabble that cant battle their way out of a shoebox. Its all well and good to have your own little groups you run about with but depending on whats going on when there is a big call to action, ie some other org left a burning paper bag of dog poop at our home base front door, well then the answer to that is 4000+ Auroras at cruise speed through their front door. Although mine may need to be an 890Jump as I melted my Aurora....:eek: Big ops need structure. Big resource efforts need structure. Im continued to be impressed by the work @Black Sunder and his helper elfs are up too. In the end that sort of thing only will benifit us all. Will mean hopefully I wont spent time assing about trying to arrange an exploring group, salvage, repair team, so on, will all be set out and I can slot right in to the bigger picture. In saying that I havent joined the Army, if I dont want to do something, who ever has the iron fist can bugger off (thats the PC way of saying it). I dont beleive TEST will have this kind of structure to start with which is one reason why Im here. Just want to have fun, even better have fun in a group, even better again to have fun in a group where it aids the whole org and benifits everyone. The old saying goes, you get more flies with honey (think thats the saying). If people need help with anything they just need to ask and I'd drop what I'm doing elsewhere in the verse to assist, I hope people would do that for me and that there are many more people in TEST that feel the same.

 

[Blind Owl]

Just want to have fun, even better have fun in a group, even better again to have fun in a group where it aids the whole org and benifits everyone.

Yup. This.
Best group I've ever had. (>v<)7

If people need help with anything they just need to ask and I'd drop what I'm doing elsewhere in the verse to assist, I hope people would do that for me and that there are many more people in TEST that feel the same.

I think a majority of this core group that's active here feels the same my friend. Huzzah.

 

[Mog_No_1]

Yup. This.
Best group I've ever had. (>v<)7

I think a majority of this core group that's active here feels the same my friend. Huzzah.

View: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_j9QeUoPOi4

 

[TheWoad]

Hi!

I recently joined TEST, after reading what's to read about it and watching BoredGamer's Video (actually 3 times), now I just stumbled across this Thread: https://testsquadron.com/threads/discussion-divisions-of-test-brainstorm.3793/

And somehow it looks weird to me. Not saying it's a bad approach, just not one I would have expected from TEST or tbh one I can see working in SC in the long run.

Since I'm new here, I didn't want to post in that Thread as it would get kinda confusing...


First of all, I should explain why I think the idea of having Divisions won't work out:

Spoiler

1. Divisions = Drama, not fun.
example:
Transporter-Division will either want to farm their UEC for upgrading asap alone or with cover from Fighters.
Fighter-Division will usually want well, to fight.
And the Explorer-Division will want Fighters + Transporters to supply them.
Assuming all Divisions are equal, that's the perfect reciepe to cause some drama, not to mention the fact that Divisions divided by "who does what" would be rather huge and it's gonna be a huge PITA micro-managing the Players, so you don't end up having 10 Hull A with 500 Fighter Escorts and 500 Explorers getting their fuel from one Starfarer.

2. Divisions would essentially mean the same thing as joining a specialized Organisation and work with others... if you want to play something different, you'd either be acting outside of what your Division does, have to join multiple divisions or switch them (defeating the whole point) or only play something else when it fits your Division (i.E. you're a Transporter-Division guy wanting to play Fighter and other Transporters wanting a Escort).

3. It's too complicated. Now, I know SC isn't a game played by idiots, nor do I think TEST recruits (and keeps) them, but... most people here just want to play, not bother with military-like command structures or looking at who they have to listen to.

4. I think it would make a lot of people feel kinda insignificant to the cause. Basically, you have Division Leaders/Co-Leaders calling the shots and the rest has to follow which I think will drive away some players or just cause them to ignore the whole division thing.

Well it's easy to "I don't like this" and bring up some reasons, but not so easy to bring up an alternative, so it did take me quite some time thinking, also because I'm new and might not know a few things.

My focus on this suggestion was all about "as simple as possible and as fun as possible" while making it plausible to work as a form of command structure.

So, how does my System look like?:

Spoiler

We'd actually be using the normal Rank-Structure provided by RSI ( 0 glowing thingies = Affiliate etc. 5 glowing thingies = Glorious Leader Montoya), the difference would be in how it's applied. Leaving aside 0 and 5 g.t., I think ranks should mostly represent how active the players have been for the Organisation, more than anything else and it's more to show this off than having command authority.

Affiliates aside, everyone would have the choice of "leading" a small group of max. 5-10 or so, which have the same interests (in terms of what role they see themselfes playing) or joining such a group. However, the Leader would mostly be a Tutor rather than a actual Leader. I also think it would be a good way to eventually make people work together towards new Ships and it would encourage people to actively recruit new players. Of course, you can also ignore the Groups and do your own thing, I don't think Test should be the sort of org which forces a command structure on everyone.

The main advantages I see with this would be:

1. If someone isn't too fond of their "leader", they could just leave and join a different group, rather than getting stuck below a command they can't stand.

2. Like 90% of the time, people will be doing small taks/quests in small groups, events like "org xyz wants to wage war with us, let's get rid of them" or "let's capture some vanduul capital ships" will be rare and usually would require extensive planning before.

3. I think it give people the feeling like they actually matter, rather than being just nameless minions below a high-command. So we'd actually provide the benefits of a large and a small organisation without the drawbacks.

4. People would by default be a lot more interested in recruting new players, since they'd recruit for their own group at the same time.

5. New Players would have someone to answer their questions etc. or just to help them make progress.

6. We could possibly recruit entire small organisations like this, as the former Leader could just become leader of his own group inside TEST with his former underlings.

Please tell me what you think, eventually I might have to rethink a few details, as I really just wrote it as it came to my mind. :p

I give you all the thumbs ups. Someone lend me more thumbs! I've actually been thinking the exact same thing as you. Now granted, I'm gonna be a pirate, but the concept is the same. As per true Test mentality we will just be a big semi-cohesive blob of people, and anytime someone (anyone) wants to take/start a job of any sort they become a "Captain", which basically means it's their brainchild, their show and they're in charge. Said "Captain" screams (with an inside voice, of course) into general comms "I'm taking on X job, need a crew" and whoever is interested in it, be it exploration, mining, production, PIRACY, bounty hunting, whatever X's up in chat and BOOM they're hired. Captain lays out his plans, puts his crews where he wants them and "BOOGITY BOOGITY BOOGITY let's get to work"

We're thinking the same thing it sounds like. I've always been a devout believer in the KISS method and this can't be any more simple.

 

[188Octane]

This is spot on. There's needs to be someone making plans, someone organizing Ops and stuff and things. There's doesn't need to be rigid structure in place that is unmovable, but there does need to be a structure of some sort. Even complete anarchy has a ring leader, someone yelling "burn the institution!".

I'm of mixed mind about this, but I disagree with this bit. While it's important to have "heads" which communicate to get stuff done as an ORG, I don't think that events should be solely run by said heads. If I wanted to put together an event or an op which is separate from a planned group, I see no reason I shouldn't be able to muster a crew or a space wing of ships for a job even if one of the TEST groups is busy with their own planned event.

 

[Mog_No_1]

I'm of mixed mind about this, but I disagree with this bit. While it's important to have "heads" which communicate to get stuff done as an ORG, I don't think that events should be solely run by said heads. If I wanted to put together an event or an op which is separate from a planned group, I see no reason I shouldn't be able to muster a crew or a space wing of ships for a job even if one of the TEST groups is busy with their own planned event.

No one is saying you NEED to fall into line but there has to be some structure, chaos would rule otherwise. Big group ops would only be achievable with structure. You want to do your own thing, fine, but hopefully if people need the man power youd lend your boots.

 

[JackAvalon]

Whoever doth bringeth the greatest quantity of beer, shall lead the greatest drunken Aurora force known to man. Assuming they first Praise the Glorious Leader!

 

[Blind Owl]

I'm of mixed mind about this, but I disagree with this bit. While it's important to have "heads" which communicate to get stuff done as an ORG, I don't think that events should be solely run by said heads. If I wanted to put together an event or an op which is separate from a planned group, I see no reason I shouldn't be able to muster a crew or a space wing of ships for a job even if one of the TEST groups is busy with their own planned event.

I never suggested that it be run solely by those heads. I merely stated that we do need a semblance of structure. We don't need some planning out all the ops, but we do need someone planning ops.

I completely agree, you wanna do your own thing, go right ahead. We all will be doing that at some point or another.

However, when the Rock Boss calls and says the Rock Raiders have a major op coming up, hundred of players will flock to join. That is the structure in taking about. Someone taking the time and effort to put that together. We do need that.

No one is saying you NEED to fall into line but there has to be some structure, chaos would rule otherwise. Big group ops would only be achievable with structure. You want to do your own thing, fine, but hopefully if people need the man power youd lend your boots.

Amen.

 

[Adiran]

I'm of mixed mind about this, but I disagree with this bit. While it's important to have "heads" which communicate to get stuff done as an ORG, I don't think that events should be solely run by said heads. If I wanted to put together an event or an op which is separate from a planned group, I see no reason I shouldn't be able to muster a crew or a space wing of ships for a job even if one of the TEST groups is busy with their own planned event.

There is in no way a requirement for anyone to participate in any event they do not want to participate in. If you want to run a fleet doing your own thing at the same time as an event go right ahead. But small groups doing their own thing is all there would be without proper organization and player participation in organized large scale events.

100 small scale operations with no overarching goal or plan behind it will never achieve or amount to any more than 100 chiefs bickering over who has the bigger stick. We can be a large org of no organization. But within 3 months of game release nearly everyone will leave because all those chiefs will go make their own groups for people to join and there will be no test after that. TBH if a large scale organized organization is not what you want there are many small organizations that need members who want small groups doing their own thing. Test aims to be the Best. That means large scale operations and organization. Yes we will provide every way possible to play the game for its members. However we will also need to be organized to achieve this goal of allowing members to play how they want. If we were only a pirate organization then it would be easy and require no organization really to do only one type of gameplay. To bring together 30 different gameplay ideals and professions and play styles we need to organize properly in order to maintain content and fleets and a player base in order to do these things.

 

[Blind Owl]

There is in no way a requirement for anyone to participate in any event they do not want to participate in. If you want to run a fleet doing your own thing at the same time as an event go right ahead. But small groups doing their own thing is all there would be without proper organization and player participation in organized large scale events.

100 small scale operations with no overarching goal or plan behind it will never achieve or amount to any more than 100 chiefs bickering over who has the bigger stick. We can be a large org of no organization. But within 3 months of game release nearly everyone will leave because all those chiefs will go make their own groups for people to join and there will be no test after that. TBH if a large scale organized organization is not what you want there are many small organizations that need members who want small groups doing their own thing. Test aims to be the Best. That means large scale operations and organization. Yes we will provide every way possible to play the game for its members. However we will also need to be organized to achieve this goal of allowing members to play how they want. If we were only a pirate organization then it would be easy and require no organization really to do only one type of gameplay. To bring together 30 different gameplay ideals and professions and play styles we need to organize properly in order to maintain content and fleets and a player base in order to do these things.

Well said. I concur completely.

 

[Devastat3]

I just hope whoever the people who end up being "in charge" are don't turn all Napoleonic on us. I'll be logging in to play a game and enjoy myself, not clock in for a 2nd job.

 

[CrudeSasquatch]

I had this conversation with some others a while ago. It went like this;
"I am going to be a pirate, yaaaaaar! If I see TEST members escorting a ship full of booty, I'm going to blow it up! No harm no foul right guys?"
"Traitor!"
"Jerk!"
"NOOB"
"Think of the children!"
"Think of the beer!"
"But it'll cut into my profits if I'm not allowed to fight merchants that have hired TEST escorts!"
And then I, with my brilliant mind and firm understanding of economics said:
"Think if you will, for but a moment, like Ol' Sasquatch! TEST knows that in one week we're going to invade System A. To do that, we need to buy missiles from System B. If we can stop shipments of Ore and Missile Tech going to System A for that week, it'll up the prices of all goods on their planet. We can corral them in, and kill all merchants both AI and PC, that are either from Faction A or shipping to System A. Meanwhile, the price of commodies goes up and our Rock guys and Traders can either ship into System A and make huge profit (Because we're killing everyone that is making those same runs), or we can overload System B with commodities and all prices of things go down for us! That way, our Pirates get to blow things up and make a profit, our traders get to make a profit, nobody has to work in groups because we're just 'coordinating' by a proxy kill order. Makes sense eh?"
/whole crowd goes wild, clapping, cheering the CrudeSasquatch's marketing and strategic genius!

 

[Blind Owl]

I just hope whoever the people who end up being "in charge" are don't turn all Napoleonic on us. I'll be logging in to play a game and enjoy myself, not clock in for a 2nd job.

Haha, I highly doubt that's a possibility here. It's against everything TEST stands for. And it's not so much "in charge" as it is "organizers". Guys like @Black Sunder, who have a vision and ideals, but are not out to demand we play a their way.

I have complete faith that this org will suit us all. Frankly, a lot of us will find others with whom we love playing, and we'll probably end up doing a majority of our in-game recklessness together. That's the nature of the beast.

It shall be great and glorious and oh so much fun.

 

[Blind Owl]

I had this conversation with some others a while ago. It went like this;
"I am going to be a pirate, yaaaaaar! If I see TEST members escorting a ship full of booty, I'm going to blow it up! No harm no foul right guys?"
"Traitor!"
"Jerk!"
"NOOB"
"Think of the children!"
"Think of the beer!"
"But it'll cut into my profits if I'm not allowed to fight merchants that have hired TEST escorts!"
And then I, with my brilliant mind and firm understanding of economics said:
"Think if you will, for but a moment, like Ol' Sasquatch! TEST knows that in one week we're going to invade System A. To do that, we need to buy missiles from System B. If we can stop shipments of Ore and Missile Tech going to System A for that week, it'll up the prices of all goods on their planet. We can corral them in, and kill all merchants both AI and PC, that are either from Faction A or shipping to System A. Meanwhile, the price of commodies goes up and our Rock guys and Traders can either ship into System A and make huge profit (Because we're killing everyone that is making those same runs), or we can overload System B with commodities and all prices of things go down for us! That way, our Pirates get to blow things up and make a profit, our traders get to make a profit, nobody has to work in groups because we're just 'coordinating' by a proxy kill order. Makes sense eh?"
/whole crowd goes wild, clapping, cheering the CrudeSasquatch's marketing and strategic genius!

I dunno if I've told you recently, but I love your mind.
Don't ever change.
(>v<)7

 

[Mog_No_1]

I had this conversation with some others a while ago. It went like this;
"I am going to be a pirate, yaaaaaar! If I see TEST members escorting a ship full of booty, I'm going to blow it up! No harm no foul right guys?"
"Traitor!"
"Jerk!"
"NOOB"
"Think of the children!"
"Think of the beer!"
"But it'll cut into my profits if I'm not allowed to fight merchants that have hired TEST escorts!"
And then I, with my brilliant mind and firm understanding of economics said:
"Think if you will, for but a moment, like Ol' Sasquatch! TEST knows that in one week we're going to invade System A. To do that, we need to buy missiles from System B. If we can stop shipments of Ore and Missile Tech going to System A for that week, it'll up the prices of all goods on their planet. We can corral them in, and kill all merchants both AI and PC, that are either from Faction A or shipping to System A. Meanwhile, the price of commodies goes up and our Rock guys and Traders can either ship into System A and make huge profit (Because we're killing everyone that is making those same runs), or we can overload System B with commodities and all prices of things go down for us! That way, our Pirates get to blow things up and make a profit, our traders get to make a profit, nobody has to work in groups because we're just 'coordinating' by a proxy kill order. Makes sense eh?"
/whole crowd goes wild, clapping, cheering the CrudeSasquatch's marketing and strategic genius!

Think your Buccaneer has driven you pirate crazy? :eek: Next you'll have a parrot, getting people to walk the plank, probably amputate your leg and poke your eye out for authenticity? :rolleyes: As far as your pirate buddies wanting to shoot everything is site, including TESTies, its a big wide Verse you know, lots of other orgs to plunder, start with them maybe! ;)

 

[Blind Owl]

As far as your pirate buddies wanting to shoot everything is site, including TESTies, its a big wide Verse you know, lots of other orgs to plunder, start with them maybe! ;)

The piracy part of his idea may not sit well with others. The first part. This part:

I had this conversation with some others a while ago. It went like this;
"I am going to be a pirate, yaaaaaar! If I see TEST members escorting a ship full of booty, I'm going to blow it up! No harm no foul right guys?"
"Traitor!"
"Jerk!"
"NOOB"
"Think of the children!"
"Think of the beer!"
"But it'll cut into my profits if I'm not allowed to fight merchants that have hired TEST escorts!"

However, this part here, this makes a lot of sense:

And then I, with my brilliant mind and firm understanding of economics said:
"Think if you will, for but a moment, like Ol' Sasquatch! TEST knows that in one week we're going to invade System A. To do that, we need to buy missiles from System B. If we can stop shipments of Ore and Missile Tech going to System A for that week, it'll up the prices of all goods on their planet. We can corral them in, and kill all merchants both AI and PC, that are either from Faction A or shipping to System A. Meanwhile, the price of commodies goes up and our Rock guys and Traders can either ship into System A and make huge profit (Because we're killing everyone that is making those same runs), or we can overload System B with commodities and all prices of things go down for us! That way, our Pirates get to blow things up and make a profit, our traders get to make a profit, nobody has to work in groups because we're just 'coordinating' by a proxy kill order. Makes sense eh?"
/whole crowd goes wild, clapping, cheering the CrudeSasquatch's marketing and strategic genius!

 

[Montoya]

@Adiran has pretty much answered the same way I would have, so there is no need for me to repeat it.

Adiran is now the leader of TEST.

(Offer expires in 20 seconds if he does not acknowledge and lay claim to leadership position. Also, he is required to make sexy video)