Banu Merchantman

[Bambooza]

An aspect of bazaars in-game that goes towards making them detested is the need to chat spam.

Think about what you'll be selling and where, as well as how many others will be doing the same.

If selling things such as salvage equipment, the target market will mainly be starting and 'mid-game' areas. For starting areas many new players won't even know what it is so the chat spam will need to include a brief explanation of what a bazaar is, where to find you, and what goods make it worth their time to check yours out. For 'mid-game', players will at least understand what it is, but you'll still need to include why they should check out yours over all the other people doing the same thing as well as where you're located.

I don't know about everybody else, but I've always detested having to do chat spam even more than having to endure it from others; it also detracts from the 'intended' purpose of the chat channel, leading to many complaint reports the developer has to review.

If selling rare special items, the target market will likely be experienced players with a lot of UEC in higher risk areas. Which also means how many people will just block you out of annoyance with your chat spam, so they never see your chat spam when it comes time for them to be interested in one of your wares?

Hopefully, they will have some sort of regional marketplace showing the current wares and the prices/location that can be pulled up on one's mobiglass.

 

[Deroth]

As others have pointed out the concept mentions docking. I would also say at this point because it was concept prior to the new ship pipeline and metrics its size is truly not fixed and more than anything else what I would go by is what functionality the ship was slated for and in this case its the pinnacle Banu trade ship. As you said all of the ships that were concept back then have grown and only the Carrack so far has grown then shrunk to only slightly longer than its original concept with the reason given it needed to fit within the large ship metric. The Merchantman does not have the same constraints so far stated and so I fully expect it to grow in size to be slightly smaller than the Kraken as I stated earlier.



Not sure how growing in size will ruin its function of allowing it to land on planets. The Kraken and Idris are still larger and they clearly are capable of landing on planets. I would also be very careful of that old chart that showed the conversions as they have pretty much thrown it out the window and now base the cargo metrics off the physical space after white boxing the ship. While they have at times grown a ship to accommodate more cargo to bring the ship closer to the concept cargo space it's still been mostly based on the concept role not on the concept metrics.




It has been a curiosity why there is such a vocal part of the Merchantman thread that dislikes the internal bazaar when it was at lease to me clear from the original concept this is what they were going for. While I wasn't sure how they were planning on achieving it until the Kraken it all fits together as being their modular stores used with in the stations.
Lore tells about how these ships are passed down and truly treasured as part of the Banu culture of nomadic trade routes. Much of the lore reminds me a lot of the silk road and camel caravans and the concept pictures continue to showcase it as a large ship.

The original concept in 2013 never mentioned anything like a bazaar. It was marked as a Clipper/Blockade Runner/Pinnacle Trade Ship with a single board room overlooking the cargo hold for conducting private sales.

2014 is when a 'bazar' was first mentioned, but concept art indicated it would be external to the ship as the stalls were on the ground near the ramp.

The vocal opposition started when the rebranding came with the mall Kraken, stating the BMM would have an internal only bazaar that could take up most of the cargo hold and require other cargo ships to support the inventories of the on-ship kiosks. This is a terrible idea that'll go towards forcing chat spam or the 'passive income' CR has stated he doesn't want in SC as players will find locations they can idle without being disconnected when not actually being at their computer.

In shorter, having a single room for private trades is cool, having the BMM changed into a flying mall that requires an escort of Hulls and Caterpillars to keep it stocked while blockading already crowded areas trying to make sales is an atrocity.

 

[Vashpede]

An aspect of bazaars in-game that goes towards making them detested is the need to chat spam.

Think about what you'll be selling and where, as well as how many others will be doing the same.

If selling things such as salvage equipment, the target market will mainly be starting and 'mid-game' areas. For starting areas many new players won't even know what it is so the chat spam will need to include a brief explanation of what a bazaar is, where to find you, and what goods make it worth their time to check yours out. For 'mid-game', players will at least understand what it is, but you'll still need to include why they should check out yours over all the other people doing the same thing as well as where you're located.

I don't know about everybody else, but I've always detested having to do chat spam even more than having to endure it from others; it also detracts from the 'intended' purpose of the chat channel, leading to many complaint reports the developer has to review.

If selling rare special items, the target market will likely be experienced players with a lot of UEC in higher risk areas. Which also means how many people will just block you out of annoyance with your chat spam, so they never see your chat spam when it comes time for them to be interested in one of your wares?

As a small crew player you are making me second guess getting this ship haha. I am sure I can still make use of it in other ways as a small crew but I am really hoping the bazaar feature is refined and enough of a benefit to be put to use. I do know most of the customers will be NPC so I am not too worried about spamming chat as NPC will come aboard and purchase goods themselves, I just hope there is enough profit per time spent to make it worthwhile.

 

[Deroth]

As a small crew player you are making me second guess getting this ship haha. I am sure I can still make use of it in other ways as a small crew but I am really hoping the bazaar feature is refined and enough of a benefit to be put to use. I do know most of the customers will be NPC so I am not too worried about spamming chat as NPC will come aboard and purchase goods themselves, I just hope there is enough profit per time spent to make it worthwhile.

That's why, like many others, I don't want it to change to a bazaar focused ship. If you're selling to NPCs, most of the goods you'll end up selling will be food stuff and vices (...and slaves.) The food stuff will be the bulk of what NPCs will be interested in purchasing in locations without an infrastructure and the vices (...and slaves...) will be your 'big ticket' items to make it actually profitable, instead of 'just covering costs'.

If it goes back to the Clipper/Blockade Runner roots, then the single room for private trade is plenty for selling to these locations in bulk supply food stuff, weapons, and anything else they need to deal with the blockade...for a very healthy profit margin of course.

 

[Bambooza]

That's why, like many others, I don't want it to change to a bazaar focused ship. If you're selling to NPCs, most of the goods you'll end up selling will be food stuff and vices (...and slaves.) The food stuff will be the bulk of what NPCs will be interested in purchasing in locations without an infrastructure and the vices (...and slaves...) will be your 'big ticket' items to make it actually profitable, instead of 'just covering costs'.

If it goes back to the Clipper/Blockade Runner roots, then the single room for private trade is plenty for selling to these locations in bulk supply food stuff, weapons, and anything else they need to deal with the blockade...for a very healthy profit margin of course.

While one of the images in the original concept does talk about it being sturdy and capable of running blockades the flavor text makes no mention of it. But I highly recommend you go ahead and watch the Nov ATV as they clearly state its a Bazaar focused ship. It's going to have shops and private meeting room(s). They also make it seem like the crew of the ship have no direct access to the shops and vis versa.

All of this just reaffirms what I have been trying to say that the Merchantman is not a cargo-hauling ship its a traveling merchant and its playstyle focus is around being a trader of specialty items to both Players and NPC's and not picking up cargo at port A to ship it to port B like the Hull series is created for.

The Banu Merchantman isn’t just a ship, it’s a home and a way of life. We know that a lot of backers want to become traders and merchants in Star Citizen’s persistent universe, and we’ve created a ship that’s more than just a sterile bulk freighter for you. The Merchantman is a traveling bazar, capable of landing or docking and then inviting locals in to view what it’s cargo holds have to offer. The ship design, perfected by generations of Banu development, is intended to offer a combination of high speed and durability. While the Banu is less configurable than a Caterpillar or a Starfarer, there’s still plenty of room to take the ship in different directions. From black market trade platform to deadly q-ship, it’s a force to be reckoned with!

But its original concept it clearly states that its meant to be a traveling Bazar that you invite locals inside to view the cargo holds.

The Banu Merchantman was added to the long-term plan for Star Citizen as part of a stretch goal, and the ship itself was concepted by Emmanuel Shiu. The concept pass is complete, and as you can see we have designed both the interior and exterior of the ship. The next step is bringing the Merchantman itself into the engine. We intend to launch the Merchantman (and similarly large ships) with or shortly after Arena Commander 2.0, as we head towards the persistent universe alpha. While these ships will be great game experiences for a variety of reasons, their roles aren’t combat oriented, so they have not been a priority for our combat modes. (Don’t let that worry you, though: the Banu Merchantman will be more than ready to defend itself!)

Lol shortly after Arena Commander 2.0...

The Banu Merchantman was initially inspired by 19th century sailing ships; Yankee Traders and the like that traveled from port to port hawking sometimes-dubious wares. This was, in turn, has heavily influenced the development and history of the Banu as a species. The quasi-organic, aged look of the Merchantman suggests a more direct connection between the Banu and starfaring, as has the background that it is a particularly rare prize for merchants in general. In terms of gameplay, the Banu was inspired by games like Ultima Online, where the player can set up their own ‘stall’ to sell goods they have crafted or collected

Even from its original concept, it was always deemed to set up a storefront and sell goods to those in the local area.

From the x-ray concept, you can see where the private meeting hall is as well as where they expected to have the storefronts.

Even here it's not a small ship with what looks to be 3 to 4 floors tall.

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It was confirmed (source) that Merchantman will be separated into 2 main parts. One part will be for customers and clients and will include shops, negotiation room(s) etc. The other part will be closed off from public.

The main part of the ship where the shops are.

Also rewatching the ATV in Nov 2017 they talk about the ship getting bigger not just for the stuff they want to put in it but also because the Banu are bigger/taller than humans.

View: https://youtu.be/36qSew4wGpk?t=946

 

[Grimbli]

I personally want the bazaar as I'm hoping to use it to sell my upgraded components from the Endeavor. But I do want it to have plenty of storage space for whatever I'm selling. Would suck if it only held <1000.

 

[Deroth]

While one of the images in the original concept does talk about it being sturdy and capable of running blockades the flavor text makes no mention of it. But I highly recommend you go ahead and watch the Nov ATV as they clearly state its a Bazaar focused ship. It's going to have shops and private meeting room(s). They also make it seem like the crew of the ship have no direct access to the shops and vis versa.

All of this just reaffirms what I have been trying to say that the Merchantman is not a cargo-hauling ship its a traveling merchant and its playstyle focus is around being a trader of specialty items to both Players and NPC's and not picking up cargo at port A to ship it to port B like the Hull series is created for.




But its original concept it clearly states that its meant to be a traveling Bazar that you invite locals inside to view the cargo holds.



Lol shortly after Arena Commander 2.0...



Even from its original concept, it was always deemed to set up a storefront and sell goods to those in the local area.

From the x-ray concept, you can see where the private meeting hall is as well as where they expected to have the storefronts.
View attachment 15153


Even here it's not a small ship with what looks to be 3 to 4 floors tall.

Clipper Ship: Banu Merchantman - Roberts Space Industries | Follow the development of Star Citizen and Squadron 42

Roberts Space Industries is the official go-to website for all news about Star Citizen and Squadron 42. It also hosts the online store for game items and merch, as well as all the community tools used by our fans.

robertsspaceindustries.com

It was confirmed (source) that Merchantman will be separated into 2 main parts. One part will be for customers and clients and will include shops, negotiation room(s) etc. The other part will be closed off from public.

The main part of the ship where the shops are.

Also rewatching the ATV in Nov 2017 they talk about the ship getting bigger not just for the stuff they want to put in it but also because the Banu are bigger/taller than humans.

View: https://youtu.be/36qSew4wGpk?t=946

Incorrect, that is the update in 2014, and it only mentions the 'bazar' as more of flavor text that many took as expanding on the use of the room overlooking the cargo hold and expansion of the concept art showing what looks like a bazaar on the ground.

The original post in 2013 specifically states, "...prized beyond all other transports..."

Letter from the Chairman: $27 Million! - Roberts Space Industries | Follow the development of Star Citizen and Squadron 42

Roberts Space Industries is the official go-to website for all news about Star Citizen and Squadron 42. It also hosts the online store for game items and merch, as well as all the community tools used by our fans.

robertsspaceindustries.com

Even in the 2014 update it only mentioned setting up a stall, singular, not the more recent update of multiple internal stalls taking up most of what should be storage space. Also, in that image the only mention of a place to do sales on the ship is in the Observation Room, which is overlooking the cargo hold and about the same size as the living quarters, this is completely fine.

 

[Vashpede]

I personally want the bazaar as I'm hoping to use it to sell my upgraded components from the Endeavor. But I do want it to have plenty of storage space for whatever I'm selling. Would suck if it only held <1000.

Because most of my time will be spent exploring with my brother and an AI or two, I want to be able to sell resource locations, anything rare I may find (seeds for rare plants, artifacts, maybe rare chemicals from plants or animals), components or salvage from derelicts, and whatever else I come across or possibly capture? Pet Store?? So I do not think I will need a huge amount of SCU but I also want to be able to make a decent profit. I am hoping the shops in the BMM will allow me to do that at the end of the week or something, sell everything I have gathered while exploring.

 

[Grimbli]

Because most of my time will be spent exploring with my brother and an AI or two, I want to be able to sell resource locations, anything rare I may find (seeds for rare plants, artifacts, maybe rare chemicals from plants or animals), components or salvage from derelicts, and whatever else I come across or possibly capture? Pet Store?? So I do not think I will need a huge amount of SCU but I also want to be able to make a decent profit. I am hoping the shops in the BMM will allow me to do that at the end of the week or something, sell everything I have gathered while exploring.

Yeah, I'd like to play a week or month in either that ship or another. Then set up the shop and let it run while I eat, shower, workout, or whatever. Possibly even leaving the ship and going to do things on the station/planet.

I dont want to have my character become a sell bot.

 

[Bambooza]

Incorrect, that is the update in 2014, and it only mentions the 'bazar' as more of flavor text that many took as expanding on the use of the room overlooking the cargo hold and expansion of the concept art showing what looks like a bazaar on the ground.

The original post in 2013 specifically states, "...prized beyond all other transports..."

Letter from the Chairman: $27 Million! - Roberts Space Industries | Follow the development of Star Citizen and Squadron 42

Roberts Space Industries is the official go-to website for all news about Star Citizen and Squadron 42. It also hosts the online store for game items and merch, as well as all the community tools used by our fans.

robertsspaceindustries.com

Even in the 2014 update it only mentioned setting up a stall, singular, not the more recent update of multiple internal stalls taking up most of what should be storage space. Also, in that image the only mention of a place to do sales on the ship is in the Observation Room, which is overlooking the cargo hold and about the same size as the living quarters, this is completely fine.

Did you not watch the 2017 ATV? As far as I know, its the most recent talk about the direction the ship is going in and they clearly said that it has two major parts the internal Bazaar and an overlook that will house private meeting rooms. In fact not only did I link the ATV I also included a pic from it that shows the internal Bazaar drawing as a concept at that time.

 

[Talonsbane]

I think that there is 1 thing that we can agree on. That is that until the BMM is close to being released into the Verse, anything & everything is possibly going to change 1 way or another. This being stated, I do believe that CIG will do its best to make the BMM abide by the original concept idea of the ship while also taking into consideration the thoughts from the backers that own it.

 

[Bambooza]

Because most of my time will be spent exploring with my brother and an AI or two, I want to be able to sell resource locations, anything rare I may find (seeds for rare plants, artifacts, maybe rare chemicals from plants or animals), components or salvage from derelicts, and whatever else I come across or possibly capture? Pet Store?? So I do not think I will need a huge amount of SCU but I also want to be able to make a decent profit. I am hoping the shops in the BMM will allow me to do that at the end of the week or something, sell everything I have gathered while exploring.

I would imagine it would as its gameplay loop seems to be tailored to the end of the explore/salvage game loops. That items found and salvaged would be sold by an entrepreneur captain where the market demand sets a premium price. If the Bazaar is anything like the stores in the Privateer then the stores will be managed by NPC's like what we see in the stations currently and the development staff said while you wouldn't necessarily manage the kiosks yourself the envision the Captain being able to dictate the goods and prices of the items sold.

 

[Deroth]

Did you not watch the 2017 ATV? As far as I know, its the most recent talk about the direction the ship is going in and they clearly said that it has two major parts the internal Bazaar and an overlook that will house private meeting rooms. In fact not only did I link the ATV I also included a pic from it that shows the internal Bazaar drawing as a concept at that time.

I don't think you're understanding me, I'm completely fine with the Observation Room being the bazaar as shown in those images and talked about in that video.

The issue is with the more recent update from when the Kraken Privateer was announced last year that indicated the BMM bazaar was growing in size to take up much of what was to be the cargo hold and that the BMM is getting shrunk back down to a similar size as the Carrack was reduced to, consequent greatly reducing the cargo capacity.

 

[Bambooza]

I don't think you're understanding me, I'm completely fine with the Observation Room being the bazaar as shown in those images and talked about in that video.

The issue is with the more recent update from when the Kraken Privateer was announced last year that indicated the BMM bazaar was growing in size to take up much of what was to be the cargo hold and that the BMM is getting shrunk back down to a similar size as the Carrack was reduced to, consequent greatly reducing the cargo capacity.

I didn't hear anything about the BMM getting shrunk back down, any source? As for the cargo space, it is entirely possible that it maintains the total cargo volume but like the Privateer, some of that space will be earmarked only for the shops it's attached to. While allowing it to still be a great merchant ship will prevent it from being a decent cargo-hauling ship.

 

[Talonsbane]

Might I also remind some of you that are owners of a BMM that will be looking to enjoy the merchant / entrepreneur style gameplay life in the Verse, that we of TEST Squadron happen to have 1 advantage over most other players in other Orgs. That is our connections here with each other. We can keep in touch with our fellow TESTies who will be looking to enjoy other aspects of the game to find out what they are needing to help them not have to stop what they're doing & enjoying. Say our Mining corps with @Black Sunder are needing various supplies for their ships to keep their operations running efficiently. 1 of us brings them a BMM full of everything requested as well as other things that they will most likely need to be restocked soon. We trade them those items in exchange for what sources they want to offload with the person that gets the better deal paying the other the difference so that it's an even trade with a bit extra for the BMM for the convenience. Then take those resources that were bartered with to where they would get the most profit from. This is just 1 potential loop out of many of the various game aspects & we of TEST Squadron will be covering all of the angles given our numbers & diversity of what we want to do in the verse.

 

[Vashpede]

Yeah, I'd like to play a week or month in either that ship or another. Then set up the shop and let it run while I eat, shower, workout, or whatever. Possibly even leaving the ship and going to do things on the station/planet.

I dont want to have my character become a sell bot.

Exactly! I would hate to have to babysit for an hour or two while selling goods, I would like to be able to go off and do other things while it is selling, hopefully in my docked Banu Defender.

 

[Bambooza]

Might I also remind some of you that are owners of a BMM that will be looking to enjoy the merchant / entrepreneur style gameplay life in the Verse, that we of TEST Squadron happen to have 1 advantage over most other players in other Orgs. That is our connections here with each other. We can keep in touch with our fellow TESTies who will be looking to enjoy other aspects of the game to find out what they are needing to help them not have to stop what they're doing & enjoying. Say our Mining corps with @Black Sunder are needing various supplies for their ships to keep their operations running efficiently. 1 of us brings them a BMM full of everything requested as well as other things that they will most likely need to be restocked soon. We trade them those items in exchange for what sources they want to offload with the person that gets the better deal paying the other the difference so that it's an even trade with a bit extra for the BMM for the convenience. Then take those resources that were bartered with to where they would get the most profit from. This is just 1 potential loop out of many of the various game aspects & we of TEST Squadron will be covering all of the angles given our numbers & diversity of what we want to do in the verse.

I hope so cause I have a feeling there will be a few of us in need of a good fence.

Exactly! I would hate to have to babysit for an hour or two while selling goods, I would like to be able to go off and do other things while it is selling, hopefully in my docked Banu Defender.

I agree, and it's one of those areas I eagerly await clarification. Chris has stated he doesn't want passive income. That ships that do not have PC's on them will despawn if there is enough available beds for the NPC crew. So these two points don't make it seem like you'll be able to leave your ship to do other missions. But at the same time how can a Bazaar operate without being online and station for hours at a time? And it's not just the Merchantman the Privateer has the same conundrum as to how it will allow players and NPC's to come to the market without traping the Captain in a dull babysitting role of the stationary market playing solitaire and wondering why is all the rum gone.

 

[Vashpede]

I think that there is 1 thing that we can agree on. That is that until the BMM is close to being released into the Verse, anything & everything is possibly going to change 1 way or another. This being stated, I do believe that CIG will do its best to make the BMM abide by the original concept idea of the ship while also taking into consideration the thoughts from the backers that own it.

That is kind of how I see it. A lot of aspects may, and probably will change, but CIG will do their best to make it what it was originally intended for or what is going to be realistically fun for the players.

I would imagine it would as its gameplay loop seems to be tailored to the end of the explore/salvage game loops. That items found and salvaged would be sold by an entrepreneur captain where the market demand sets a premium price. If the Bazaar is anything like the stores in the Privateer then the stores will be managed by NPC's like what we see in the stations currently and the development staff said while you wouldn't necessarily manage the kiosks yourself the envision the Captain being able to dictate the goods and prices of the items sold.

I sure hope so! That is what my vision is for this phat baby and would bring me lots of joy. My ship lineup is Corsair, Vulture, BMM, and Defender so this is all circled around that loop.

 

[Vashpede]

I agree, and it's one of those areas I eagerly await clarification. Chris has stated he doesn't want passive income. That ships that do not have PC's on them will despawn if there is enough available beds for the NPC crew. So these two points don't make it seem like you'll be able to leave your ship to do other missions. But at the same time how can a Bazaar operate without being online and station for hours at a time? And it's not just the Merchantman the Privateer has the same conundrum as to how it will allow players and NPC's to come to the market without traping the Captain in a dull babysitting role of the stationary market playing solitaire and wondering why is all the rum gone.

Yeah I am hoping by passive income he means when offline. That would be a reasonable restriction and maybe there will be a tether for distance and the shops will close down or something.

 

[Bambooza]

That is kind of how I see it. A lot of aspects may, and probably will change, but CIG will do their best to make it what it was originally intended for or what is going to be realistically fun for the players.



I sure hope so! That is what my vision is for this phat baby and would bring me lots of joy. My ship lineup is Corsair, Vulture, BMM, and Defender so this is all circled around that loop.

Well if you are nearby and don't necessarily mind knowing where the goods are coming from or why some of them seem to have blood splatter on them then you can count on me providing quality merchandise at bargain prices.