Car-nundrum

Patrick Spaceman

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In my mind this all boils down to one very important fact that you haven't yet mentioned. . . does the WRX have THREE pedals, or just two? The Merc is only a 2-pedal car, so if it's an apples-to-apples thing then I'd vote for the larger more powerful AMG. BUT even all that extra power and displacement doesn't make up for a 50% deficit of foot-controls IMO!!! #SaveTheManuals!!! :D
Want to drive a WRX....three pedals is the ONLY acceptable way to do so. It's also an antitheft device, wannabe fast and furious car thieves look in and see a stick....and keep walking. The Merc's a 7-spd auto, but you can use sport-mode and use paddle shifters on the wheel. I haven't tried that yet....took me a week to figure the seats out, and a YouTube video on how to open the hood. I did watch a video of someone using the shifters and looked like fun.

But yes, the WRX is manual, it's my second one also a manual and before that mostly V8's and manual's where possible. Although I do understand why the need for auto's on performance cars....nobody want's to be walking around in the dark, picking up a trail of gearbox pieces at 2am on the road while waiting for a tow truck, because they destroyed their gearbox...
 

Shadow Reaper

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My condolences not only for your loss, but your situation.

My EX fiance's family tried to stick me with their family hobby by "giving" me an old Corsair they wanted me to restore. It had rotted in the driveway for many years and was not worth restoring, but at one time the family owned five of them and it was a family thing.

I am happy to report I did not commit to someone else's hobby, and urge you do not consider it a family responsibility to keep a 13 year old car in the family. That's just someone speaking out of place who hasn't considered their position properly.

On an even more practical note, the AMG does not have active exhaust. It is loud ALL the time and that wears one down and makes driving much less enjoyable, especially on long trips. Cars that are quiet most of the time but that open up to free flow when stepped on are much more thrilling, and practical. So if you decide to buy the AMG, I suggest you investigate active exhaust baffles. Usually costs about $1k, so not bad.
 

Patrick Spaceman

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I see car, I click, yaaay...

Oh.
Sorry for your loss!

Tldr. : choose the one that makes you smile more. That's it.


It is a really tough question indeed!
Both cars are timebombs engine wise, so that makes little difference imo. As you are down under (unless it's just your VPN), I'd assume the supply of WRX-s will still be higher then the AMGs, so it might be wiser to keep the AMG to sell later?
Here it's the opposite. While generally any premium German or fun performance Japanese car went up 1.5-2x in price over the last year, as there so few Subarus around (death by rust and no one wants to pay for a new one when it costs as much as a decent German premium car), their price hiked more and will keep rising. Badly kept AMG's are rather cheap in comparison as ppl could afford to buy em but were unwilling to pay to keep em properly serviced.

Some questions to ask yourself if you want to overthink it:
- are you a sensible fun guy or a crazy fun type of guy?
- can you truly afford the AMG? Even if you don't use it, you will need to change oil and tires at least, as those are perishable items. Yes, engine oil should be changed 1-2years max in such a car regardless of mileage, and it will cost a fortune. Ofc you can keep to the manufacturers numbers for oil change if you surely want to blow it up, it's up to you...
Also it will eat those rear tires real fast and they ain't the cheap type, or at least you should go premium unless you wanna surely spin off the road and die, which is up to you as well ofc... And that's not counting all the "little" stuff that will go wrong as it is not a new car, like abs sensors and window switches and such..
- even if you can afford the upkeep, do you want to?
- does the AMG have enough of things like cupholders or boot space, things that you grew accustomed to and don't wanna let go?

Ah fuck it, just keep the AMG if you can lol
I know I would... (probably, never had the chance to drive a c63, only much slower versions)

Personally I love Subarus, I've driven a few for weeks at a time, 555 edition and old jdm sti included, but never had to suffer through owning one for years. Awesome fun cars which can be sensible as well for a great price.
I'd take the merc still, cos omfg that torque! Also rwd and luxury.. Yeah, I'd go with that cos I'm a sucker for that stuff. To hell with safety and insurance costs...
I just couldn't afford it but that's besides the point.
Anyways, in the EU I would bet on the Subaru retaining it's value more (becoming more rare and less of a gas guzzler) , but over there, I dunno, afaik you have a better supply of them still so maybe the merc will come out on top.

Anyways, I wouldn't consider either car as an investment. Too much upkeep on the AMG that will eat deeply into any profits, WRX is not an Sti...
As strange as it sounds I got my first WRX for the safety...that's what I pitched at my wife. As I wanted a "daily" when I bought it, I went with the 2.0lt the previous owner was having it serviced every 4000km....looking at the service book, it's like three years ahead haha, so mechanically it's sound. Also the 2.0lt as it was better "bang-for-buck" and the FA20 engine doesn't have as many issues (so far, if I ever modded the car i'd go as far as installing an Air / Oil seperator) Both cars are "similar" in size, the AMG is actually physically smaller than the WRX, two cup holders each and some loss of boot space (that's ok, there's only an umbrella rolling around in there).

Subaru is popular in Australia, and people usually keep them for long periods of time. Looking at carsales.com looks like there's over 500 current shape WRX's and less than 40 AMG C63's 2008-2010 for sale.
 

Patrick Spaceman

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My condolences not only for your loss, but your situation.

My EX fiance's family tried to stick me with their family hobby by "giving" me an old Corsair they wanted me to restore. It had rotted in the driveway for many years and was not worth restoring, but at one time the family owned five of them and it was a family thing.

I am happy to report I did not commit to someone else's hobby, and urge you do not consider it a family responsibility to keep a 13 year old car in the family. That's just someone speaking out of place who hasn't considered their position properly.

On an even more practical note, the AMG does not have active exhaust. It is loud ALL the time and that wears one down and makes driving much less enjoyable, especially on long trips. Cars that are quiet most of the time but that open up to free flow when stepped on are much more thrilling, and practical. So if you decide to buy the AMG, I suggest you investigate active exhaust baffles. Usually costs about $1k, so not bad.
Goodness a Corsair haha would have been ok if it was a Vauxhall Lotus Carlton, I read about the one the Police could not catch. We had similar when the WRX came to Australia, getaway car of choice. But yeah I hear what you are saying, common sense over sentimentality....but I will take it for a good drive first "if" I decide to let it go!
 

Cugino83

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Want to drive a WRX....three pedals is the ONLY acceptable way to do so. It's also an antitheft device, wannabe fast and furious car thieves look in and see a stick....
Hmm well hope the thief is not an european one: here manual shift are the normality, not the exception!
Only in the recent years we start so see some car with auto trasmissions, most on hybrid car for obvius reason, but also on some hight end vehicles becouse nowaday whats important is having a car with more HP then the others, not being able to actually drive it and having an auto trasmission allow idiot with big walltet to drive around with them... and crash on something as soon ass they actually try to leverage the engine power.
 

Lorddarthvik

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Hmm well hope the thief is not an european one: here manual shift are the normality, not the exception!
Only in the recent years we start so see some car with auto trasmissions, most on hybrid car for obvius reason, but also on some hight end vehicles becouse nowaday whats important is having a car with more HP then the others, not being able to actually drive it and having an auto trasmission allow idiot with big walltet to drive around with them... and crash on something as soon ass they actually try to leverage the engine power.
Truth! I see so many news about new supercars being crashed the first day after leaving the dealership lol
BTW having so many automatics comes with having tighter emissions regulations as well as higher torque. You can easily program an automatic to shift at the right revs to keep emissions in check, while still allowing for higher revs when put into sport mode. Also automatics can take higher torques without the need for an overly large and heavy clutch so there's that too. It's cheaper and easier for the manufacturer, and as you said it appeals to more idiots so they can drive anything.

@Patrick Spaceman
Buying a wrx cos safety is not a bad idea at all, with the 4wd it can indeed save your ass in some hairy situations. I fondly remember driving a beaten up jdm sti hatchback on a slightly damp road, when a cocky racer boy in his new hot Peugeot tried to keep up with me, and when a tight right hander came up I just took the corner without even noticing how fast I was going (clock was set to mph cos it came from the UK, so while it read 55kph it was actually mph lol) , and all I heard was the screech of tires from behind me. Looked in the mirror, poor guy almost licked the guard rail as he understeered into the corner lol
As for the sentimental value question, I tried not to touch it because it's entirely personal. All I can say is I didn't let go of the family's 24 year old Astra F for an extra 2.5 years, even though we already had a newer daily. But I didn't want it to rust to hell in my friend's garden where it was stored, so I finally sold it. It was in my family since new, so it was a tough choice to make.
I know I will inherit another car sooner or later, a vw bora that was bought for me many years ago as a "safe" first car, but grandad owns and drove it. I really love the old guy so it could hold a high sentimental value, but I hate that thing with a passion. Have only driven it like 5 times in 10+ years, a truly overpriced German piece of junk, I'll sell it in a heartbeat.
 

BUTUZ

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I'd keep the AMG but then I love my mercs.

mercles.JPG

It's the kind of car you buy because you say to your self "what the hell i could get run over by a bus tomorrow lets live life to the max" so to be honest it sounds like your Bro in law was doing things correctly. (very sorry for your loss by the way).

The 6.2 AMG 63 is probably the least reliable V8 engine merc made in the last 20+ years....but.....it's an impressive piece of machinery and will still go down as one of the all time great V8s - it just needs a fair chunk more maintenance than normal merc V8s. Once you experience the sound and torque those kind of doubts go away - at least for a while. Whatever you do don't go to a merc main dealer for work as they rip you off left right and centre - find a good local specialist who like mercs mercs and more mercs.

I'd say just follow your heart - if there's anything this year of covd etc has thought me it is to live life for RIGHT NOW not spending your entire life worrying, procrastinating, thinking about what you may need to live like in 30 years time.
 
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Patrick Spaceman

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Hmm well hope the thief is not an european one: here manual shift are the normality, not the exception!
Only in the recent years we start so see some car with auto trasmissions, most on hybrid car for obvius reason, but also on some hight end vehicles becouse nowaday whats important is having a car with more HP then the others, not being able to actually drive it and having an auto trasmission allow idiot with big walltet to drive around with them... and crash on something as soon ass they actually try to leverage the engine power.
Always fun to see on the news...."The car worth an estimated <SHIT LOAD OF MONEY> reportedly crashed at the first corner, and the thieves have been caught"
 
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Patrick Spaceman

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I'd keep the AMG but then I love my mercs.

View attachment 21033

It's the kind of car you buy because you say to your self "what the hell i could get run over by a bus tomorrow lets live life to the max" so to be honest it sounds like your Bro in law was doing things correctly. (very sorry for your loss by the way).

The 6.2 AMG 63 is probably the least reliable V8 engine merc made in the last 20+ years....but.....it's an impressive piece of machinery and will still go down as one of the all time great V8s - it just needs a fair chunk more maintenance than normal merc V8s. Once you experience the sound and torque those kind of doubts go away - at least for a while. Whatever you do don't go to a merc main dealer for work as they rip you off left right and centre - find a good local specialist who like mercs mercs and more mercs.

I'd say just follow your heart - if there's anything this year of covd etc has thought me it is to live life for RIGHT NOW not spending your entire life worrying, procrastinating, thinking about what you may need to live like in 30 years time.
Thanks Butuz, yeah it's a double edged sword. Sheer brutality vs expensive repairs. I did email the manager of one of the dealerships last year and called them "thieving c#nts". My father-in-law lost the PIN number for his radio in his Merc. Mercedes said they "couldn't find it" but come in with $300 and they'll replace the radio. I rang the service manager who flat out said there's no way known you can get a new PIN or find the old one followed with "I've been with Mercedes for over twenty-five years".....

I was home, so went on Google and in five minutes (because I wanted a cup of tea) found a place that can tell you what the PIN number is....busted out the credit card, gave them $20 and the VIN number, and they emailed back later that day with the working PIN number...so then emailed the local Merc dealer called them "thieving c#nts" and if they aren't then sack the service manager because he's proved himself a "useless c#nt".

Best use of $20 at the time.

We use a local guy for repairs now, but as you can see earlier I posted the last work invoice. I could have sourced used parts if I had too, but bro-in-law insisted on new parts (He didn't know at the time, that i'd ultimately be paying his repairs.....neither did I). As for the AMG yeah his Dad said go buy an AMG if it makes you happy and brings you joy, so he did.
 

BUTUZ

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Also not sure if you can hold a spanner but I do as much work as possible myself to save you 5000+ bucks a year - as really half of it isnt rocket science. Merc charged your bro 668 dollar for an oil change which is an absoloute rip off, it's 100 bucks worth of oil (if that) a 10 buck oil filter ad 50 cent copper washer and an hours work (if that).

Just about to do an oil change on my Nissan patrol now total cost £48 oil £9 filter.

I also do suspension parts myself and brakes.
 

Patrick Spaceman

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Also not sure if you can hold a spanner but I do as much work as possible myself to save you 5000+ bucks a year - as really half of it isnt rocket science. Merc charged your bro 668 dollar for an oil change which is an absoloute rip off, it's 100 bucks worth of oil (if that) a 10 buck oil filter ad 50 cent copper washer and an hours work (if that).

Just about to do an oil change on my Nissan patrol now total cost £48 oil £9 filter.

I also do suspension parts myself and brakes.
...and $100 for replacing windscreen wipers...ffs. Had to get my wife's VW serviced (it had to go in, due to Takata recall. VW wanted to charge $330 to replace the sparkplugs....$60 worth of spark plugs, rip off the air filter, plugs are right there...RIGHT THERE...IN FRONT OF YOUR EYES......a child could have it done in ten minutes). Yeah as for bro-in-law they ended up ripping me off, as I paid. He knew around that time he was done for, so that was his wish to have it serviced by them, so I wasn't going to argue time was short. If I keep the C63 that's the last time those clowns get to touch it.
 
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Dirtbag_Leader

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4wd it can indeed save your ass in some hairy situations. I fondly remember driving a beaten up jdm sti hatchback on a slightly damp road
*SORT OF* This continues to be one of the most prevalent vehicle dynamics myths out there, so it's important to get the real facts straight. 4/AWD does NOT 'improve how a car handles' or 'cornering ability' or anything of that sort. What it DOES do is improve the grip available *WHEN ACCELERATING* on low-traction surfaces. Not while cornering or braking though, it only helps with ability to go! The rate that a car can accelerate laterally (i.e. corner) is mainly determined (~70%) by the tires and then secondarily (~30%) by the suspension. Equation of frictional force: F=uN. You want F to be high, u = the coefficient of friction (between your tires and the surface) and the normal force N (effectively a function of how the suspension is set up to distribute the weight of the car when rolled into the corner), and that's it! Torque applied (or not applied) to the wheel does NOT enter into the equation.
At a much higher level, say on the Formula 1 track, there can be a *slight* advantage when coupled with torque vectoring; i.e. if you're full throttle coming OUT of a corner and exceed the grip available at one tire, then the ECU can dial back the torque applied to that particular wheel and then have 3 other (vs. only 1 other) wheels to try to redistribute the engine torque to, but that isn't really a situation that comes into play on the street, and again needs sophisticated torque vectoring to be relevant.
So good on you Darthvik for having good tires and being able to drive properly and within your abilities, because it's YOU (and your tires) that were able to outdrive the other schmuck; don't give away your due credit Subaru's marketing department (though to be fair, their suspensions are pretty good)!
(I am an automotive engineer so I'm qualified and know what I'm talking about here!)
 

Shadow Reaper

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All true but there is one other part to the equation. When you power all four wheels you essentially double the power losses in the drive system, which are actually much higher than most people realize.

I once watched a contest between five what were then supercars--each up around 600 hp. The test was 1-200 and back to 0. In order to even compete, the Lambo had to disconnect the front wheel drive because it was not even close to competitive until it did. Still, the 'vette was the only car that didn't crack its discs breaking as hard as possible from such high speed. The Z06 won the competition with the Ferrarri, Lambo, Ford GT and Viper mainly because the breaks were so good.

Point is though, its not the HP at the engine that matters. Its the HP to the ground and when you power all the wheels you double the losses in the drive system.
 

Lorddarthvik

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*SORT OF* This continues to be one of the most prevalent vehicle dynamics myths out there, so it's important to get the real facts straight. 4/AWD does NOT 'improve how a car handles' or 'cornering ability' or anything of that sort. What it DOES do is improve the grip available *WHEN ACCELERATING* on low-traction surfaces. Not while cornering or braking though, it only helps with ability to go! The rate that a car can accelerate laterally (i.e. corner) is mainly determined (~70%) by the tires and then secondarily (~30%) by the suspension. Equation of frictional force: F=uN. You want F to be high, u = the coefficient of friction (between your tires and the surface) and the normal force N (effectively a function of how the suspension is set up to distribute the weight of the car when rolled into the corner), and that's it! Torque applied (or not applied) to the wheel does NOT enter into the equation.
At a much higher level, say on the Formula 1 track, there can be a *slight* advantage when coupled with torque vectoring; i.e. if you're full throttle coming OUT of a corner and exceed the grip available at one tire, then the ECU can dial back the torque applied to that particular wheel and then have 3 other (vs. only 1 other) wheels to try to redistribute the engine torque to, but that isn't really a situation that comes into play on the street, and again needs sophisticated torque vectoring to be relevant.
So good on you Darthvik for having good tires and being able to drive properly and within your abilities, because it's YOU (and your tires) that were able to outdrive the other schmuck; don't give away your due credit Subaru's marketing department (though to be fair, their suspensions are pretty good)!
(I am an automotive engineer so I'm qualified and know what I'm talking about here!)
So, as is usualy with me, I've written 6 pages worth of text to explain why you are, ofc, wrong. Then I deleted it and written 5 more different pages. Then I started writing a Short concise version

1625968178795.png

And deleted that too, cos while you are not Wrong in a classroom scenario, you are kinda wrong in a real world sense.
Making assumptions like distribution of torque not coming into play.. maybe in the classroom it doesn't, but in the real world? Oh hell yes it does! The problem with that equation is that it is a vast oversimplification, an end-result in an idealized setting. It is describing the edge of possibility, not something that most people can or want to reach in the real world! And here's the difference between AWD and the rest, getting the highest possible grip/number whitout being an engineer and an experienced racecar driver at the same time!

Just to preface what I'm about to say, I know that 4/AWD in Not Magic! If you are silly, you will crash and burn just like any FWD or RWD car would, in most cases anyways.
I'm also a guy who did almost 2 years in uni as a "transportation engineer", the BSC before we could choose a specialization like Automotive or Aero and whatnot..It was boring as hell, it didn't have much to do with real world engineering ofc, and I didn't want to waste more time there so I quit.

"What it DOES do is improve the grip available *WHEN ACCELERATING* on low-traction surfaces. Not while cornering or braking though, it only helps with ability to go!"
Well, Yes, But...
If you are fast enough, everything is low-traction... lol
Also from a physics point of view, changin direction is basically acceleration..
The point isn't having the highest theoretical grip just because of AWD. You don't. The point is that in the real world, you do have that because of the balance of everything matters and makes it easy to have higher grip, even if that is Not the highest physically possible grip! Any random average driver will be able to get closer with a proper AWD car than with FWD or RWD!
Unnecessarily convoluted longer explanation follows:

Anyways, the point is, you don't just have Zero acceleration in a corner while being on the exact edge of grip. That's bullshit. In almost all cases you either decelerate or accelerate, including when you are "just" trying to maintain a constant speed through the corner. That is TORQUE applied to the wheels, acceleration! And it matters! Mainly cos of the BALANCE! Everything in that equation is a variable that changes constantly, and a key part of that is what your center of mass is doing! You can take a corner much faster if you can keep the car balanced and maintain grip all around, keeping that number high!
AWD is not about having higher overall speeds in a theoretical classroom cornering scenario.
It works in the real world because you can Use the power way more effectively coming out of a corner! You Dare to use the power! Going into one, it makes no difference ofc. But on your way through and out, you can maintain and have higher acceleration as the car won't want to understeer or oversteer as soon as a 2WD would, because you have that balance! The distribution of torque inherent to AWD does help keep the nose and rear level, to maintain a high level of grip and not overload either end, While your are accelerating! What it REALLY helps you in is to keep those constantly chanign number in the equation as high as possible, and still Control the car while being near that theoretical end-of-grip! Which in turn is not a number which when broken, just stops working fully and you lose all grip there is and just die. That's not how that works either on real asphalt. Controlled powerslides/Drifting is a thing ya know.. But anyways, that's another story.
In the real world, all of the above translates to faster cornering on the streets, especially against schmucks! Because you have the balance, you can easily have the higher grip while FWD cars for example struggle cos of the torque lifting their noses and causing understeer! You could ofc tune the suspension on an FWD to car to behave better, but most would find that unbearable to live with.

As for safety, it can help by being able to distribute torque to the wheel with the most grip to spare. No matter how small a difference, it can mean those 5 centimeters between you hitting that pole at 70kph or just knocking off the door mirror. It won't stop you from killing yourself if you do 200 on a frozen road with hairpin turns and no brakes... But it can pull the nose in and tighten up that turn radius in a way that almost feels like magic, IF the AWD is built well.
I urge you to get into a proper fun AWD car, or even just a good SUV and give it a slight trashing on a county road that you know and dare to drive fast. Or better yet, take it to a track day. You will be surprised how much of a difference it makes when the torque distribution kicks in, even more so if old school mechanical, and how suddenly the car will start taking that corner like a champ, even though a moment ago you were sure to hit that tree... Although I've been driving my AWD SUV for 3 years, it still surprises me to this day how effective it is on a damp autumn road covered by leaves. No pure RWD or FWD could have pulled off that speed in that corner last year...
So yes, it can save your ass in low grip situations easily by shifting the weight with Torque around and giving you a higher grip on the corner of the car that needs it the most.
Can this be done as effectively with just braking certain wheels? Wellll, almost, but it's most certainly not as fun, and the car having access to both torq.distr. and braking should be more effective.

BTW, any surface is low-traciton if you have if you have an AMG lol... But if you are talking about loose surfaces like sand, snow, well yeah, that's a different breed of problems entirely. Going into fluid dynamics for real world sand grip calculations is something way higher level then where I got to in Uni...
But on loose stuff, AWD Does increase your overall cornering speed! I don't need to explain this, you know that rally cars exist and they are AWD lol
From personal experience, I prefer sliding my awd X3 on frozen snow rather than my friends E30 rwd. You can keep up the speed and the slide for ages in that thing compared to the rwd, it's a lot more fun! It did cost me a main belt drive disk thingy (dunno the English term) cos of the increased load on the steering servo, but that's a common issue with older 30D engined bimmers. I was not given the privilege to drive his 555 on anything other then asphalt and a foot-deep wet mud track (where it almost got stuck) so I dunno how good Bubus are in the snow, but from what I heard they are real fun!


Anyways Thank you for the kind words!
The tires on that Subaru were 8+ years old very budget tires (the car wasn't mine), I have no idea if it had proper pressure in em or not, so it was all the doing of the Subaru engineers and all my talents lol.... Like I have any.... I do have lots of experience trying to drive fast in a slow car though.

The little "talent" I have, I acquired by playing every video game/simulator I could get my hands on since I was 4, being an RC car champ 4 years in a row in my country (1/10th scale electric unlimited class), and in the end going through 4 sets of shocks and springs which cost as much as the car was worth /set until I found the best setup for the old family hatchback FWD 1.6 100hp F Astra, and learned how to balance a car on the throttle throughout a corner. Also I've added the best Bridgestone tires at the time on bigger and wider wheels for more grip which has certainly decreased my top speed and acceleration slightly, but increased the lateral G considerably. It was a slow car to start with anyways. Also I had spent ages finding a shop that would adjust camber and toe-in to the numbers I calculated and liked instead of the factory toe-out values. The factory numbers just felt like I was driving a block of jelly...
I've trashed that car through the city countless times, made lots of boyracers in their riced civics run crying home to mommy, and set a record time for a cross-city run on which the statute of limitations is not up yet, so I won't give details... Yet I've never had an accident in 17years. Weird.
I've yet to properly learn how to left foot brake in/to a corner, but I'm currently looking into getting a fun-car for that purpose, for track days and LEGAL rallies and such (I'm too old to play on the streets), as I only got the family SUV at the moment. Also I know I'm not fast, but I am very consistent. When it comes to kart racing with friends I can consistently do the Slowest lap time to a tenth of a second!!! lol

One time my friend in his 555 Subaru was utterly shocked how I in the shitty little old (24y at the time) Astra could corner as fast as he did.. Ofc coming out of the corner I stood no chance as I could only accelerate much less then he could due to weight shifting... And again, the "torque doesn't matter" argument comes into the scene! My car would have understeered under higher acc as it raised it's nose due to all the torque being applied at the front, while he could push it more cos of AWD retaining a more balanced pose and more equal grip all around. So yes, AWD CAN make you faster and save your ass in certain situations and provide a means to escaping a nasty barrier IF you know how to use it. If nothing else, part throttle in an AWD car is putting less force on all 4 corners than an FWD or RWD car does to it's driven wheels, thus is it more balanced and has less chance of breaking traction if you slightly misjudge a corner or happen upon a wet patch. But if all you ever do is break then neutral-coast in a corner and hope for your god to have mercy on you, then it doesn't matter how many driven wheels you got... also you should have your licence revoked cos WTF are you even doing?

Disclaimer: when I write you in this post I mean as in general you, not you personally. my engrish is no that gud sometimes.

FFS it's 4 am again... even if it makes no sense I'm gonna go now...

To get back on topic:

KEEP THE AMG!!!! for the lulz! And the soundtrack.

@Shadow Reaper
Very true, having AWD saps power like crazy. Also they like to go light on the awd shafts and gearing when it comes to material use, which makes for lots of trouble when trying to launch hard. Subarus and xdrive bimmers among others are well known to break shafts and gears when you drop the clutch a lot.
But I bet if that race was a simple quarter miler, the AWD of the lambo with launch control could have gotten it off the line quick enough to win, or at least be real close.
 

Shadow Reaper

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Actually it doesn't. AWD Lambos are markedly slower than read drive. AWD doesn't help much on high friction surfaces like tracks, which is why few race cars are AWD. Theoretically, if you have a car with unlimited HP, then distributing that HP across all wheels would help, but even cars with over 1,000 HP don't usually bother with AWD. Teslas do quite well, but now we're talking about something much different because it can monitor for any slippage and adjust all four wheels at once.

Truth is, electric is the way of the future because it offers this advantage, but we're only just entering the age of that kind of car. Comparing cars with a few hundred HP, on dry pavement you will always get better performance from rear wheel drive.
 

Lorddarthvik

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Actually it doesn't. AWD Lambos are markedly slower than read drive. AWD doesn't help much on high friction surfaces like tracks, which is why few race cars are AWD. Theoretically, if you have a car with unlimited HP, then distributing that HP across all wheels would help, but even cars with over 1,000 HP don't usually bother with AWD. Teslas do quite well, but now we're talking about something much different because it can monitor for any slippage and adjust all four wheels at once.

Truth is, electric is the way of the future because it offers this advantage, but we're only just entering the age of that kind of car. Comparing cars with a few hundred HP, on dry pavement you will always get better performance from rear wheel drive.
OH wow, they really are slow once off the line. Watched a couple of videos and even when they can get away by over a cars length they can't outrun a Maclaren or similar rwd car.
BTW well built awd cars can have a huge advantage on a slippery surface in a drag race. Yes even petrol cars can adjust for slippage per wheel, and it's pretty effective, but it is much easier to do on electric cars. I love the new mini se even though it is just fwd, it's the most fun I had in a car on the streets ever. Even more fun than a tesla. Electric can be really fun.
 

Patrick Spaceman

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OH wow, they really are slow once off the line. Watched a couple of videos and even when they can get away by over a cars length they can't outrun a Maclaren or similar rwd car.
BTW well built awd cars can have a huge advantage on a slippery surface in a drag race. Yes even petrol cars can adjust for slippage per wheel, and it's pretty effective, but it is much easier to do on electric cars. I love the new mini se even though it is just fwd, it's the most fun I had in a car on the streets ever. Even more fun than a tesla. Electric can be really fun.
My wife has a front wheel drive VW Up! it's actually quite a hoot to drive.
 

Lorddarthvik

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My wife has a front wheel drive VW Up! it's actually quite a hoot to drive.
I've only driven the E-up! Apart from the unbelievable horrible turning circle (I swear my X3 has a smaller one) it's quiet good to just get around town. An i3 easily beats it in a drag race (experience, luckily I was in the i3) but still quiet nippy and usable. You can't beat that size when you are looking for parking lol
 
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Dirtbag_Leader

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I've written 6 pages worth of text to explain why you are, ofc, wrong
I am most definitely not wrong, but we're closer in agreement than you might realize, as many of your points are very much valid, though for slightly different reasons:
The point is that in the real world, you do have that because of the balance of everything matters and makes it easy to have higher grip,
This is 100% correct, but balance (aka weight transfer) is still independent from which wheels are driven. It is instead a function of steering angle, for transferring weight between the two sides, and acceleration/braking to transfer the weight fore/aft. And while it's managed slightly differently for each, managing weight transfer is equally effective in all different types of final drive systems. As an example, I track my E30 (RWD), and my co-worker runs an MX3 (FWD). His car is slightly faster in general, but I HATE driving his car, because you need to trail-brake it like crazy going into the corner, and then I always have trouble getting the balance 'right' again for the exit, whereas since I'm used to it I can balance my E30 with ease. My first Auto-X car was in fact a naturally aspirated AWD Impreza (non-WRX) and it was acceptable, but mostly because of the suspension it doesn't hold a candle to how my E30 or that MX3 can get around a corner. My point here is that while different drive systems indeed handle differently, that's more a matter of preference and you can't really argue that one is 'better' than another, as they just need to be driven differently. This is a pretty good graphic for this, and I think that since AWD systems fall in as a compromise, not prone to over-steer like RWD but with less under-steer than FWD, that makes the feel appealing to many people, which is fine and I think in line with what you are saying:
1626021383459.png

My original point though, which I still stand by, is that AWD is marketed as intrinsically better for cornering than 2WD, which is categorically untrue as it has no influence on the friction circle:
1626021872907.png
where the greatest cornering force ('C') is achieved with there is zero torque, neither drive nor braking, applied to the wheel, and C is thus determined by the tire material, road surface, and the suspensions ability to maintain the area of the contact patch.

So I can agree that AWD cars handle 'differently,' and I absolutely respect that you may prefer that difference, but the physics says different /=/ better. My preference is RWD, but I too will refrain from arguing it's better, just what I like better! :D
03-05-2021 JTI-3047.jpg
(see in this pic, my left front tire is so light it's not doing jack shit anything, and 98% of my right front tire is trying to push the car through the corner, and there's just not any more grip left for it to do anything else even if it wanted to! And yes I'm faster than/just passed that pokey S2000 back there!)
 
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