Hahaha, no no, that's some weird wording in the article. Our pints are 20imp oz, so 568ml
Cargo haulers will probably get nerfed
- Thread starter Thalstan
- Start date
Ok this makes sense, but it doesn't consider what happens to the price of medpens when a load of medpens is delivered.Thanks for the response, apologies I didn't make it clear that I was partially theorycrafting there.
At the moment we are in the early implementation and indeed it is 100 units per SCU however you can purchase units in a little as 1, They will just go in a SCU box and rattle around a bit. Knowing this game for the scope it intends to have and that almost every other game with cargo as a mechanic takes the size of a unit into account, even if it is a rather simplistic Small, Medium, Large or "this item = 5 Cargo per unit", I don't expect SC to be any less rigorous with cargo considering they are going as far as to take velocities into account with balistic ship weapons to make sure the amount of damage a bullet does to ship armour is + 1000m/s if the target is advancing on you at that speed and -1000m/s if the target is moving away from you at that speed.
For example:
Mugs and plates. Both these items are available to pick up and carry around in the 'Verse right now.
- Taking a dinner plate from my cupboard, it is just under 1cm tall and 30cm wide. We can get 100 plates in a meter tall stack with a little left over and can have 9 stacks in a meter square. 900 plates in total in an SCU.
- Taking a mug from my cupboard, it is 10cm wide and 10cm tall. We can have 10 mugs in a stack and 100 stacks. 1000 mugs in an SCU.
Here is a spreadsheet showing the difference between the two, and what would happen if you only put 100 of each in an SCU:
View attachment 14569
It'd be really wild if you could cross-populate a SCU, but i think that would be over-complicating things:
View attachment 14570
Also, items larger than 1SCU are going to be one unit, but multiple SCU. Small class components are going to be person carryable. Large and Capital Ship components are going to be larger than a person can carry. You have 20 Large class coolers to get over to the Drake shipyards, you're going to need something bigger than Cutlass to shift them those. To put a number on it, lets say a large class cooler is 2 meters long by 2 meters tall by 2 meters wide, that's going to be one unit at 8 SCU.
I will happily concede that I have no idea where cargo may eventually go and it may stay as it is if it is determined not to be a priority mechanic that would benefit from the resources it would take to get this in place.
The economy will take care of any over or under supply of the product in the price that a load is worth - and supply always lags demand by at least the time it takes to move the product to it's downstream market. If you have a load of medpens and can't sell it at more than cost, you could always keep it and hope the buy price goes up. Or you can potentially try to sell it yourself (once the mechanics are in place). Not just for medpens, this applies to any commodity.
I'm not a fan of the control that CIG is planning on ingame pricing with the NPC's. I'm not saying it's bad, just that I need to see it actually in action and not in a simulation of a simulation so to speak. Show me how it works in the actual game, not on paper or a demo.
All bets are off btw if the beer is sold in metric measure. Then I used to drink liters (normally), and if I had to then half liters of draft.
In a can or bottle I have no idea what they're sold as now. "Can I have a twofer of Keith's, and maybe a 12 pack of Moosehead"... I think that's the 2nd last thing I ever said in an LCBO.
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They're not really getting nerfed as such, just more realistic with regard to size. I think they've realised that their shooting themselves in the foot every time UK makes a ship magically bigger, as if they carry on like that the Hull E is going to be the size of a planet.
I am disappoint that the Carrack has its size increase reversed, but I think it will be a more useful ship in compact form. I intend to replace my Cat with the Carrack as the cargo is not far off the same size.
The BMM needs to be reasonably big - its supposed to be effing big. 2000SCU would be fine.
I am disappoint that the Carrack has its size increase reversed, but I think it will be a more useful ship in compact form. I intend to replace my Cat with the Carrack as the cargo is not far off the same size.
The BMM needs to be reasonably big - its supposed to be effing big. 2000SCU would be fine.
I will go further and advocate for player-only markets
we need the ability to corner the markets for essential goods
an imbalanced economy is a feature, not a bug
there is no better incentive to make war than the obscene profits that come with monopoly power
why fight for a planet or asteroid belt if NPCs are just going to discover and bring greater quantities of those rare materials to market?
as things stand now combat ships' main purpose is to raise funds for development - there will not be any reason to PVP if there is no profit in territorial control
I signed up to fund a better game of fleet combat, not 'Kumbaya Around The Campfire In Space'
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I used to do the ol' 24 or 12. Now I'm a bit of a beer snob, and buy my beer by the 473ml can at the LCBO. Rarely by the 6 / 12 / 24 unless @CrudeSasquatch is coming to visit - beer consumption tends to skyrocket when we're together, haha.
I 100% agree with this. I dare say you've probably got a wealth more experience in this than I do, coming from the Eve crowd, iirc.
That being said, yes. We need need reasons to war. We need reasons to raid. We need reasons to hold onto resource rich regions.
Test, even if we could all sober up and go in the same direction for months at a time, could not control or put a stranglehold on a market. We have 19,000 members. The town I live in is about the same size. There is no way it could even hope to control even one strategic resource or area.
even If we had enough javelins for us to fully crew them all out, that will still only be about 200 or so Javs. Impressive, but it’s nothing in terms of what the UEE could bring down on you, plus that would leave you without anyone working or gathering resources, In short, we would be crushed like a grape.
make it seem like a real universe, with billions of people, many of which have their own ships and pilot other ships for their
corporations. Not like EVE where you and your fellow pod people are the only ones who matter.
even If we had enough javelins for us to fully crew them all out, that will still only be about 200 or so Javs. Impressive, but it’s nothing in terms of what the UEE could bring down on you, plus that would leave you without anyone working or gathering resources, In short, we would be crushed like a grape.
make it seem like a real universe, with billions of people, many of which have their own ships and pilot other ships for their
corporations. Not like EVE where you and your fellow pod people are the only ones who matter.
It could be they were too drunk to care.
I wouldn't be at all surprised if all the internal cargo carrying ships we still don't have are nerfed fairly hard in some way for capacity but I fully expect the Hull series with its external cargo to not be hit as bad.
my sentiments exactly, expressed better than I ever could
It's funny because I was just writing "My sentiments exactly" followed by something that means pretty much exactly what you wrote. I saw your post just before I hit send, and wrote this instead.
This is a great question. Tony's economic model doesn't seem to have variable prices on demand just inventory requirements but I can't imagine that they would not add a slider on the buy/sell price based upon how full the warehouse inventory is. Tony did say that the AI has its own cost and will only pick trade routes that turn a profit.
ha ha, great minds think alike
haha, It's still happening lol... wtf... nobody ever thinks what I'm thinking. probably a good thing too.
Sure you could
you and a few friends could grab your guns and take over the local liquor store, until the law showed up
now imagine a liquor store outside of any law enforcement agency's jurisdiction
in a cold and unforgiving PU, you and your TEST mates are the only ones that matter
My hope is they realize the issue isn't with the cargo capacity of the larger ships, but instead the crippled storage of the various locations driving an exceptional anemic empire collapsing economy.
Instead, a far more varied and robust supply of goods coupled with exponentially increased storage capacity of the various locations are needed.
The current economy is more like a single street of food trucks being supplied by a couple small convenience stores.
Instead, a far more varied and robust supply of goods coupled with exponentially increased storage capacity of the various locations are needed.
The current economy is more like a single street of food trucks being supplied by a couple small convenience stores.
I've thought about this a lot as you are right we need a reason to control territory over it just being epen size. All I can come up with so far is fighting over control of higher yield raw resources. The other thing that might be plausible with the physicalization of true AI agents is blockades to increase or decrease local prices if they are subject to supply and demand. But Chris has stated multiple times that he doesn't want a player-driven economy so we will never end up with an economy like what Eve has.
Well when you put it like that...damn. I feel I significant. I wanna be someone. (In game. RL validation is covered quite well, lol)
@Maybard does have a point though. If there's no economic effect due to player actions, then what's the point? We need to be able to affect the universe around us to some extent.
Hmm, just happened upon this old Ship Shape for Hull C.
Rather than all the earlier concept pictures with those whatever boxes, we actually know things about these, and since the video showed such good angel, we can do some math.
At first glance, it would seem like the ship is carrying 5*3*8 *4 *2, however, those aren't 1x2 and 1x3 SCU containers, they're actually 2x3x2m bulk containers, as seen here:
Which kind of explains why you can only see them in one orientation, they're irregularly shaped. Also the longer containers on the ends are 4.5m and 7.5m.
So the grid size is actually 7.5m * 6m * 16m *4 *2 = 5760m^3. Taking into account the containers having that 0.125m thickness, 5760m^3 / 1.25 = 4608 SCU, which happens to be what is listed on Hull C page.
So, the case with the Hull C isn't really that they overestimated the amount of cargo they can put on the ship, they've already implemented it with the size the site has!
Well, it could very well be the case that the SCU won't be adjusted for Hull C after all, or if it is done for balance purposes it's likely they'll just remove the 3rd layer of boxes (easiest), arriving at 3072 SCU.
Rather than all the earlier concept pictures with those whatever boxes, we actually know things about these, and since the video showed such good angel, we can do some math.
At first glance, it would seem like the ship is carrying 5*3*8 *4 *2, however, those aren't 1x2 and 1x3 SCU containers, they're actually 2x3x2m bulk containers, as seen here:
Which kind of explains why you can only see them in one orientation, they're irregularly shaped. Also the longer containers on the ends are 4.5m and 7.5m.
So the grid size is actually 7.5m * 6m * 16m *4 *2 = 5760m^3. Taking into account the containers having that 0.125m thickness, 5760m^3 / 1.25 = 4608 SCU, which happens to be what is listed on Hull C page.
So, the case with the Hull C isn't really that they overestimated the amount of cargo they can put on the ship, they've already implemented it with the size the site has!
Well, it could very well be the case that the SCU won't be adjusted for Hull C after all, or if it is done for balance purposes it's likely they'll just remove the 3rd layer of boxes (easiest), arriving at 3072 SCU.
Also, it's worth pointing that Kraken P, BMM and Hull have different purposes and can't be compared solely on the basis of cargo capacity.
Kraken P is a space station with landing pads and shops, where you can trade in space, on orbit, or on planet surface. To me Kraken P is akin to a mobile supermarket with parking lot, where you can not only take customer vehicles, but also deliveries, so with just in time deliveries you may not need to hold much cargo: get batch delivered -> sell -> re-order. I would note, though, that cargo hold for Kraken indeed seems way too small.
BMM, in my view, is a mobile boutique for more exquisite merchandise, as well as a mobile office for sole trader type business negotiations (for large corporates there is 890). BMM purpose is likely to be deployed only when landed. You won't have any fast moving consumer goods for on-sell purpose deliveries, and therefore you may require a larger cargo hold. You also likely won't be able to trade in space.
Hull series, in my opinion, has nothing to do with shops, rather those are freight industry. Hull E is something like an IRL marine supertanker able to carry 3+ million tons of oil (or other cargo), or like a super container ship. Hull D is closer to a large tanker or cargo/container ship. Hull C is like a cargo train, that picks cargo from a sea-port (where hulls E and D are unloading) and deliver to freight terminals. Hull B is like a large freight truck, that picks cargo from a freight terminal and delivers to a smaller terminal or a large warehouse. Hull A is like a small truck, that delivers cargo to retail clients. There is nothing more to it: no trading, no landing pads, and for most, no planetary landing with cargo. Just freight. Large cargo holds make sense to me.
So, comparing Kraken P and Hull E is like comparing a supermarket to a supertanker and saying that a supermarket needs to be able to store millins of tons of goods, because it has the "super" in it's name.
I need to admit that there is a tendency to nerf some large ships and make them smaller. To me, the most disappointing change was Carrack: from capital class ship to a large ship. I believe it is now smaller in size, has less decks, and overall doesn't look as impressive as it was originally pictured. Personally, I would much rather prefer it to stay capital class ship. I wouldn't mind traveling to places like ArcCorp to get it spawned if needs be. Maybe, Port Olisar needs changing so that it is able to spawn capital class ships. If not, traveling is fine by me. I don't see much point in downgrading a capital ship just to squish it to a smaller landing pad. Rather, maybe, create a large exploration ship. So, indeed, there is a risk that large ships may be nerfed and downgraded.