Clarification on LTI by CIG

Thalstan

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It looks pretty decent, but if you read this early, please go back and read it now


it got initially published after an initial draft while it was still intended to be edited because Disco forgot how to use CIG tools in specturm. It happens.

From my take
Once 1.0 goes live, this is the CURRENT plan for Insurance.
  1. IN GAME Purchased Ships
  2. Ships can have insurance paid for in-game. If the ship is destroyed and you ONLY have insurance, the payout amount will be determined by the condition of the ship and the level of the insurance. Level 1 is the ship chassis and stock components, level 2 is level 1 plus it will include any custom components, level 3 will be level 2 PLUS any decorations (NOT CARGO)
  3. In addition, there are transferrable warranties that can be earned in-game. When you have insurance AND a warranty, you get the ship back. If it's level 1 insurance, it's only chassis and base components. Level 2 will get your custom components back as well, and level 3 will also include that decoration.
  4. for REAL MONEY SHIPS (Website purchased ships)
  5. ALL website ships will include a warranty
  6. Insurance will run the specified length of time (1 month to LTI) Once insurance expires, you will need to pay an additional cost to get the ship back, but you will ALWAYS be able to get it back.
  7. Insurance included in the website will be level 1. So you ONLY get your ship chassis and base components back
  8. You can purchase additional insurance that will AUGMENT your website insurance to boost it to level 2 and 3 if you desire. It does not REPLACE your insurance.
  9. Since all website purchased vehicles will have a warranty, you will get your ship back instead of just receiving a cash payout when it's destroyed.


Examples.
  1. I was nostalgic and kept my Hornet F7C Mk I ship. I am NEVER going to fly it, I am NEVER going to upgrade it as I have a F7A Mk II. I am keeping it as a Hangar queen. It has LTI on it and was bought on the website. I am fine leaving it at the base level insurance level. Even if I did fly it, since I am never upgrading it, I am still fine with just level 1 insurance and warranty.
  2. I have Zeus Mk II ES (Explorer). I have it decked out with rare and custom components that are hard to find and replace. Even thought I have LTI, I probably want to boost my in-game insurance to level 2 so that I automatically get my custom Components back NOW, if I had only a few cheap and very readily available upgrades, I might keep my level 1 insurance and "self insure" the upgrades.
  3. I have a 890 Jump that I have not only kitted out with a bunch of very expensive custom components, but I have also decorated it so that it's my personal traveling bar, ready to host a drunken Test bash, or a cocktail party (after a week of decontamination and fumigation from the Test bash). Because I spent 10 weeks curating and collecting those decorations, I decide that I want to up my insurance to level 3 just so I don't have to do it again.
  4. I have a 85X with 2 months insurance that I bought through the website (so it has a warranty. For some reason, I don't see any of the warnings, etc., and my insurance had run out, but I use it anyway. It gets destroyed. I will have to pay some other fee, but I CAN get my ship back. NOTE: That fee might be 100 percent of the cost of an 85x through the in-game store.
  5. I have a Cutty Black that I have purchased in-game. I keep level 1 insurance on it, but no warranty. It gets destroyed one day while I am busy searching the hold of someone else's ship;. I get money back from it based on the condition it was in (not sure when this is measured)
  6. I have a Connie I bought in-game and I keep level 1 insurance on it and I used one of my transferrable warranties on it. If it gets destroyed, I get back the base Connie Andromeda with the associated base components
  7. I have a Cutter I bought one time to get me the heck out of Pyro. I insured it for one month and forgot about it. Two years later, it was the only ship I had available to me (insurance timers) and I didn't want to bother with insuring it again, so I bring it out just intending to hop up to the space station. I end up botching the landing and it gets destroyed. That ship is now lost to me forever with no payout.

Hope this helps people.
 
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Mudhawk

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Sooo...
If I read through all that stuff correctly then LTI translates to a permanent Level 1 Insurance.
Stock components and chassis.
But for a li'l fee you can upgrade to Level 2 or 3 (In case of an extensive Whiskey collection this is advisable)
And if you bought your ship in the store for real cash then you can always get it back (for a fee) even if your insurance ran out and you ignored the big red "Wouldn't do that if I were you lass" popups.
On the other hand, if you earned your ship in game and did NOT get an insurance...
Ah well, I always look for cheeap deckhands. ;-P
PS: Gotta hand it to you @Thalstan. Great examples :like:
 

Thalstan

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Sooo...
If I read through all that stuff correctly then LTI translates to a permanent Level 1 Insurance.
Stock components and chassis.
But for a li'l fee you can upgrade to Level 2 or 3 (In case of an extensive Whiskey collection this is advisable)
And if you bought your ship in the store for real cash then you can always get it back (for a fee) even if your insurance ran out and you ignored the big red "Wouldn't do that if I were you lass" popups.
On the other hand, if you earned your ship in game and did NOT get an insurance...
Ah well, I always look for cheeap deckhands. ;-P
PS: Gotta hand it to you @Thalstan. Great examples :like:
Basically, it transfers to a permanent level 1 insurance PLUS a permanent non-transferrable warranty (you can't transfer it to another ship). That warranty part is the new thing and it's important to questions people new to the game or newly back from the game might have.

Thanks for the like! Appreciated.
 

Mudhawk

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Basically, it transfers to a permanent level 1 insurance PLUS a permanent non-transferrable warranty (you can't transfer it to another ship). That warranty part is the new thing and it's important to questions people new to the game or newly back from the game might have.

Thanks for the like! Appreciated.
Well yeah, that warranty part might be misunderstood by many. I don't know about US warranties but here in Germany a warranty is fixed to a product on purchase.
And it is the insurance you may have for your car that might be transfered if you get a new one.
Guess further down the road we'll need a TEST Insurance Personal Service (TIPS) or something anyway.
Considering the probability of our dear members getting blacklisted by your average insurance company....
(Then again, once our drydocks start pumping out ships no member will have to go without a testified standard issue Aurora in Yellow and Black one way or the other)
 

Raven_King

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This is a great discussion - really useful, thanks Montoya and Thalstan. I have two questions that I think haven't been clearly defined yet - and that's fine; it'll all become clear eventually, but I'll be looking out for clarifications on them as and when they are available.

I get money back from it based on the condition it was in (not sure when this is measured)
I'm sure Rich Tyrer said something to this effect, but after one full read-through and one quick re-skim, I didn't see this discussed in that post. Is its condition based on age, damage - measured when - or a bit of both?

Also, if you can earn transferrable warranties in-game, is there a cap to how many you can have. Do CIG want us to be able to just keep grinding for them however that's done, until we've got enough for all your ships we want to apply one to, will they be be capped per player/account, or will there be some sort of increasing cost so the first one or few are relatively straightforward to earn, and after that they become increasingly hard to earn. Just kinda theorycrafting here a bit. Happy to wait and see, it sounds like the overall plan is pretty sensible.
 

Mudhawk

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Is its condition based on age, damage - measured when - or a bit of both?
Good question. Though I'd assume it's something like Payout = Ship-value - (wear + tear + damage +used consumables)
So no more insurance fraud just because you lost a wing and the gas is gone.

Also, if you can earn transferrable warranties in-game, is there a cap to how many you can have.
And if the answer is yes, can we trade them?
So many collectors in dire need.
I smell money...
 

DirectorGunner

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For some reason scrolling screenshot tools doesn't work with Spectrum, but for backup:

Disco Lando | CIGsaid
Bottom Line Up Front:
  • This system is an evolution of our intended implementation, adding additional functionalities and comforts to our players, while maintaining every functionality that has ever been detailed.

Hi all, Disco here.

Dusting off the old Spectrum badge to address some questions that have come up across these forums about LTI and the notes Rich had about Insurance in his Star Citizen 1.0 presentation yesterday.

it is important to begin by reminding folks that the vehicle insurance system has yet to exist in the Persistent Universe. From 2015 to today, everyone just gets everything back to make things a little easier.

Rich's presentation was intended to convey how it will be implemented by the time Star Citizen 1.0 rolls out.

To avoid my traditional loquaciousness, I will limit myself to bullet points, cause when I used to write here, people often accused me of getting paid by the word.  

Here we go:

In-Game Purchased or Created Vehicles
  • UNCHANGED PLAN: You can choose to purchase insurance that will last for varying durations, just like it's always have supposed to. (No change.)
  • UNCHANGED PLAN: Level 1 is chassis and original, purchase-included components only and is the insurance that has always been offered since the project began. (No change.)
  • UNCHANGED PLAN: If your vehicle is destroyed without insurance, it is lost forever. There will be ways to track its duration in game when the system is implemented, and a warning when you summon your vehicle if it is without active insurance. The choice to operate without insurance will be deliberate, very noticeable, and entirely yours. (No change.)
  • FUTURE NEW ADDITIONAL OPTION: Level 2 adds custom components coverage to chassis. This is new and cool and especially important in a universe with massive crafting options and will be addable in game.
  • FUTURE NEW ADDITIONAL OPTION: Level 3 adds coverage to all your upcoming ship decorations, and still includes chassis and custom components, which is awesome and will be addable in game.
  • NEW IMPLEMENTATION: Just like in much of the real world, in Star Citizen 1.0 vehicle insurances at each level will pay out appropriate credit value for your destroyed vehicle chassis, components and decorations instead of replacing your vehicle outright.
  • NEW IMPLEMENTATION: There will also be separate, in-game earnable warranties that you can attach to any vehicle so that when it is destroyed AND you have insurance, you will receive the covered assets back instead of the credits value. This is intended as a nice convenience so you don't have to go spending the time re-acquiring anything, and these warranties will be things you can work towards and earn through gameplay if you are so inclined.
Vehicles Attributed Through the Website, and not Earned In-Game
  • UNCHANGED PLAN: All insurance will last for varying durations, just like it's always have supposed to. (No change.)
  • UNCHANGED PLAN: Level 1 is chassis and original, purchase-included components only and is the insurance that has always been offered since the project began. (No change.)
  • UNCHANGED PLAN: [EDIT HERE WITH CORRECTED INFO BECAUSE I'M OLD AND OUT OF PRACTICE AND I SHARED SUPER-DUPER OLD THINKING ORIGINALLY] If your vehicle is destroyed without insurance, the intention is that there will be an additional in-game cost to recovering it, but it remains on your account and accessible forever. There will be ways to track its duration in game when the system is implemented, and a warning when you summon your vehicle if it is without active insurance. The choice to operate without insurance will be deliberate, very noticeable, and entirely yours. (No change.)
  • UNCHANGED PLAN, AND UNIQUE TO WEBSITE PROMOTIONS: Lifetime duration means you never have to bother with renewing it in-game. All other durations are intended to be renewed through in-game means once the system is fully implemented. This has always been chassis and stock components, meaning it is Level 1 insurance with a lifetime duration. (No change.)
  • FUTURE NEW ADDITIONAL OPTION: Level 2 adds custom components coverage to chassis. This is new and cool and especially important in a universe with massive crafting options and will be addable in game.
  • FUTURE NEW ADDITIONAL OPTION: Level 3 adds coverage to all your upcoming ship decorations, and still includes chassis and custom components, which is awesome and will be addable in game.

These lists are, as you can see, mostly identical. (I changed this too after the edit above.  )

The Big Difference Between the Two
  • Regardless of whether you have Lifetime duration or one month to ten years or anything else between or beyond, if you have a vehicle attributed through the website, EVERY ONE OF THEM, regardless of its insurance duration, will ALSO have an automatic, permanent warranty that guarantees you will always get your chassis and stock components back instead of credits, provided you are also within the duration of your original insurance, or have renewed it in game to keep it active, or pay the additional premium cost to recovering it mentioned in my EDIT above.
  • [POST EDIT ADDITION:] Put another way, you can NEVER permanently lose your pledge ships.
  • If you add-on to your Level 1 insurance with Level 2 or 3 in game, your permanent warranty will recover the custom components and in-vehicle decorations respectively, instead of credits.
  • This effectively means there is no functional difference at all to the pledge insurance as you've always known it, but you will now benefit from the addition of new in-game addons that let you cover your custom components and decorations as well.
Special Additional Pledge Insurance Note
  • Adding additional in-game Level 2 or 3 insurance does not invalidate your existing Level 1 Pledge insurance.
  • It's easiest to consider these addons and not replacements. You will not invalidate your existing insurances by engaging in this new system designed to bring additional functionality and comfort to all players.  
That Bottom Line Once Again
  • This system is an evolution of our intended implementation, adding additional functionalities and comforts to our players, while maintaining every functionality that has ever been detailed.
Thanks for indulging my return to Spectrum. I'm gonna go back to show prep after CitizenCon.

See you in the videos!  

(Additional Edit and Context:)

So, behind-the-scenes info here, but we have a private staging forum where we can post and make all the edits we need to, fix formatting, terminology, syntax, all that stuff. Pretty standard, and I thought I'd saved an early version of this post there but IN FACT had actually published to General LONG before I was finished adding bullet points. (This is why I haven't been a Community Manager since 2016.)

I continued to add information without realizing the post was already public and now there are various, incomplete screenshots going around, again, because I became the video guy and haven't made a Spectrum post in several years. This post, as of 9:57pm UK time on October 21st, 2024, represents the full and corrected extent of the information we have to share at this time. Obviously, we have a lot to do between now and Star Citizen 1.0. When new or additional information becomes available, you can be certain we'll share.

And if it's on Spectrum, I'll get someone to remind me what buttons do what, first. 🫡
 

DirectorGunner

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Shadow Reaper

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I think the assured assets combined with fresnel nuisance issues contribute to the blanket up failing in insurance rusk similifucations due asyntoptic evolution of market values. Furthermore, vestigial amplifications of shareholder stocks fracturing in response to such evolution, preambulates returns non-linearly according to manifest ectecites emergent through calcified holdings. It’s a cluster fuck.
 
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Carlos Spicyweiner

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It looks pretty decent, but if you read this early, please go back and read it now


it got initially published after an initial draft while it was still intended to be edited because Disco forgot how to use CIG tools in specturm. It happens.

From my take
Once 1.0 goes live, this is the CURRENT plan for Insurance.
  1. IN GAME Purchased Ships
  2. Ships can have insurance paid for in-game. If the ship is destroyed and you ONLY have insurance, the payout amount will be determined by the condition of the ship and the level of the insurance. Level 1 is the ship chassis and stock components, level 2 is level 1 plus it will include any custom components, level 3 will be level 2 PLUS any decorations (NOT CARGO)
  3. In addition, there are transferrable warranties that can be earned in-game. When you have insurance AND a warranty, you get the ship back. If it's level 1 insurance, it's only chassis and base components. Level 2 will get your custom components back as well, and level 3 will also include that decoration.
  4. for REAL MONEY SHIPS (Website purchased ships)
  5. ALL website ships will include a warranty
  6. Insurance will run the specified length of time (1 month to LTI) Once insurance expires, you will need to pay an additional cost to get the ship back, but you will ALWAYS be able to get it back.
  7. Insurance included in the website will be level 1. So you ONLY get your ship chassis and base components back
  8. You can purchase additional insurance that will AUGMENT your website insurance to boost it to level 2 and 3 if you desire. It does not REPLACE your insurance.
  9. Since all website purchased vehicles will have a warranty, you will get your ship back instead of just receiving a cash payout when it's destroyed.


Examples.
  1. I was nostalgic and kept my Hornet F7C Mk I ship. I am NEVER going to fly it, I am NEVER going to upgrade it as I have a F7A Mk II. I am keeping it as a Hangar queen. It has LTI on it and was bought on the website. I am fine leaving it at the base level insurance level. Even if I did fly it, since I am never upgrading it, I am still fine with just level 1 insurance and warranty.
  2. I have Zeus Mk II ES (Explorer). I have it decked out with rare and custom components that are hard to find and replace. Even thought I have LTI, I probably want to boost my in-game insurance to level 2 so that I automatically get my custom Components back NOW, if I had only a few cheap and very readily available upgrades, I might keep my level 1 insurance and "self insure" the upgrades.
  3. I have a 890 Jump that I have not only kitted out with a bunch of very expensive custom components, but I have also decorated it so that it's my personal traveling bar, ready to host a drunken Test bash, or a cocktail party (after a week of decontamination and fumigation from the Test bash). Because I spent 10 weeks curating and collecting those decorations, I decide that I want to up my insurance to level 3 just so I don't have to do it again.
  4. I have a 85X with 2 months insurance that I bought through the website (so it has a warranty. For some reason, I don't see any of the warnings, etc., and my insurance had run out, but I use it anyway. It gets destroyed. I will have to pay some other fee, but I CAN get my ship back. NOTE: That fee might be 100 percent of the cost of an 85x through the in-game store.
  5. I have a Cutty Black that I have purchased in-game. I keep level 1 insurance on it, but no warranty. It gets destroyed one day while I am busy searching the hold of someone else's ship;. I get money back from it based on the condition it was in (not sure when this is measured)
  6. I have a Connie I bought in-game and I keep level 1 insurance on it and I used one of my transferrable warranties on it. If it gets destroyed, I get back the base Connie Andromeda with the associated base components
  7. I have a Cutter I bought one time to get me the heck out of Pyro. I insured it for one month and forgot about it. Two years later, it was the only ship I had available to me (insurance timers) and I didn't want to bother with insuring it again, so I bring it out just intending to hop up to the space station. I end up botching the landing and it gets destroyed. That ship is now lost to me forever with no payout.

Hope this helps people.
Someone made a copy of my motorcycle policy and gave it to CIG.
 

Sky Captain

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Listening to CIG's presentation, my reaction was that having 'insurance' already was enough, without adding a 'warranty' to the equation to complicate things further. Especially without adding new meaningful game play for the added complexity. Seeing these things renewed a sense that CIG might benefit from a director who drives game play clarity and fun over unnecessary complexities.
 
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Raven_King

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I’m with you in the complexity thing, but that horse has well and truly bolted so we might as well embrace it.

I like the clarification and added nuance about what the three insurance tiers and optional warranty (or automatic permenant warranty) mean. We can protect those ships and their components and decorations that we really care about, representing genuine value from some of our UEC but we do not have to pay to insure things we don’t care as much about. We can choose to take a risk, and be fully aware we are taking one.

The price of the various kinds of insurance and insurance tier upgrades hasn’t been discussed yet. CIG have previously implied it will be ‘small’ but we’ll cross that bridge when we come to it, for now, I am satisfied they explained more about what insurance/warranty will be provided for ‘free’ with ships ‘bought‘ in the pledge store, gifted, giveaways etc. So there is a small difference in value between a ship in your hangar with 2 month insurance and the same one with 10 year or lifetime insurance, but you never permanently lose any of them. That’s fine. Feels right.

I really like that the updated statements from Jared and Rich do not contradict much (or any?) of previously announcements about how insurance is going to work. Overall, quite happy about this. Curious about the prices though.
 

Bambooza

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Listening to CIG's presentation, my reaction was that having 'insurance' already was enough, without adding a 'warranty' to the equation to complicate things further. Especially without adding new meaningful game play for the added complexity. Seeing these things renewed a sense that CIG might benefit from a director who drives game play clarity and fun over unnecessary complexities.
It's done this way to help with crafting. If you just always got a hull then crafting ships would quickly become illrelevent. Now ship crafting is a viable option with a cash input through insurance payouts. That cash then in theory streams out to all the other gameplay loops that crafting has a direct impact on from mining and hauling as well as secondary loops like security and piracy. It's honestly a great game play mechanic for helping to creating dynamic player driven gameplay. It really gives purpose and with the tier system progression. Now controlling stations and bases has meaning in the resources you can secure and the advantage that provides. It creates points of conflicts and reasons to team up and fight each other for control of these resource nodes.

I honestly hadn't thought they where going to go full eve online with the crafting but it's a brilliant move and with in the sandbox world they created it's going to be epic if they can stay away from a few issues. Mostly around having a balanced economy and security response gradients and ramp up. Piracy is a necessity to create conflict and turmoil, but like any good fire it needs to be contained lease it burns your house down.

I understand the need for warranties but it's really going to have a bit of a negative impact on the games economy. The best option is to use the payouts to drive demand for ships which in turns drives so much more. Now I wish they gave us an update on subsumption as it will help to create the market floor.
 
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