[CONCERN] with realism in video games

[Lorddarthvik]

I don't mind realism, as long as it doesn't get in the way of my game.
I, for one, hate the fact that MMOs cater to the efficiency obsessed crowd. It kinda ruins the world building if you can't take the time to walk at least once in a while, and always just have to run everywhere cos it's efficient...
Back to KCD's realism: OMG the Hungarian speech is ducking hilarious! And disturbing sometimes.
Small spoiler: early on there is a horse chase where the Hungarians are shouting at the player, and it's not translated in text, so unless you speak Hungarian it's gibberish to you. The things they say are like "ima gonna kill you mofo" and such obscenities. I'm pretty sure it was recorded by real Hungarians as the speech is perfectly natural, but the actual words they say are today's spoken language, with all the abbreviations and differences to the original words from even like 20years ago. So the style is so much 21st century that it destroyed all sense of immersion instantly for me :D

 

[Printimus]

I do the reverse: I throw myself through the window of Olisar down to the ship-call pads every time because it's fun and hasn't stopped being fun. Been doing it since 2.5.

The moment that's no longer viable i'll find a way to make it viable, like wearing Lo-Grav underpants or just living on a low gravity asteroid.

lol

 

[Sirus7264]

I'm the type of person to watch an NPC walk around do their businees eat their breakfast and then goto work come home eat dinner goto sleep with his wife. Then i watch his wife she wakes up eats breakfast with her husband waves goodbye to him gets dressed up nicely sits downstairs until a knock at the door and lets "Jody" in for a good time then jody quickly runs out the backdoor as the husband is opening the door so he doesnt get caught wife goes up to husband and says i'll start dinner now.

 

[supitza]

I'm the type of person to watch an NPC walk around do their businees eat their breakfast and then goto work come home eat dinner goto sleep with his wife. Then i watch his wife she wakes up eats breakfast with her husband waves goodbye to him gets dressed up nicely sits downstairs until a knock at the door and lets "Jody" in for a good time then jody quickly runs out the backdoor as the husband is opening the door so he doesnt get caught wife goes up to husband and says i'll start dinner now.

That escalated quickly!

 

[Sintha]

So I turned on the game and wow some of the controls are obtuse.

It seems very silly that once I find my ship i have to press a button to lower the ladder, another to climb in, another to turn the power on and another to turn the engines on. Took me ages to figure this nonsense out....it was a clear example of something added that was intended to be real with no consideration for fun.

 

[Lorddarthvik]

So I turned on the game and wow some of the controls are obtuse.

It seems very silly that once I find my ship i have to press a button to lower the ladder, another to climb in, another to turn the power on and another to turn the engines on. Took me ages to figure this nonsense out....it was a clear example of something added that was intended to be real with no consideration for fun.

It is actually very handy that you can do them separately. I made good use of opening the doors without getting in on my Aurora while doing small box shipping missions. It allowed me to place the box in the doorway cos otherwise I just dropped the box automatically while climbing the ladder.
Also on ships where there is a ladder entrance, there is always an option to open and get in with one click and it's the one selected by default, and there is a keyboard shortcut that turns the ship to flight ready.
I think this is a good implementation of fun vs. realism. You have the option to be "efficient" or to be realistic, and it allows for creative solutions to problems, so it is fun.

 

[Sraika]

So I turned on the game and wow some of the controls are obtuse.

It seems very silly that once I find my ship i have to press a button to lower the ladder, another to climb in, another to turn the power on and another to turn the engines on. Took me ages to figure this nonsense out....it was a clear example of something added that was intended to be real with no consideration for fun.

Ah, but what if you just wanted to open up your ship, as bait for ship thieves or something? And being able to kill engines/powers separately is going to come in handy later, once they figure out emps. Also, killing engines is the only way i'm able to land my ship proper (I am a terrible pilot :grin:).

 

[Triebwerk]

We'll have to see how they do quest NPCs, since some quests will be turned in from your mobiglass/from a location that's always open (eg the cargo desk at port oli) For quests that need named NPCs, i'm not sure how they'll do it, so i couldn't say. Still, it's not a huge deal unless there's no easy way to wait for em, which there very well might not be. Since SC is an MMO, they cant just speed up the world for a few hours. Even if they end up having the important NPCs just sit in a bar for all eternity, i wouldn't mind that much.

For the needs thing, that's exactly the effect you want. It's no big deal if you don't, but most people are going to do it anyways. It's not really changing the system, it's just framing it differently. If you tell people they get something if they shower regularly, they'll feel better about doing it than if you tell people you'll take stuff away if they don't. Carrot and stick approach, yeah? :grin:

Maybe Miles Deckard passes out but he wakes up on aproach and answers, but with sleepy eyes and grumpy.

 

[Clematrix]

I agree with the general idea that too much realism can be problematic in games. The reality of a lot of actual situations is that they're pretty mundane and include a lot of waiting or sitting around. Like if in SC you went to buy something but they needed to change the receipt paper and couldn't figure it out so you have to wait until someone who knows the machine better is finished with another customer to complete your purchase. That would be some nice realism but terrible gameplay.

 

[Lorddarthvik]

I agree with the general idea that too much realism can be problematic in games. The reality of a lot of actual situations is that they're pretty mundane and include a lot of waiting or sitting around. Like if in SC you went to buy something but they needed to change the receipt paper and couldn't figure it out so you have to wait until someone who knows the machine better is finished with another customer to complete your purchase. That would be some nice realism but terrible gameplay.

This is what I would find to be a nice little extra "flavor" thing to increase immersion, if they did it once every 50-100 transactions or something, but it would be really annoying if they did it all the time. I really like the idea, but there are no machines that use paper receipts in the 'verse it seems.


This got me thinking about a realism thing, and please do correct me if I missed something about this, but I can't recall any devs mentioning it: there is no cash in the game, right? Or is there? If there isn't any, how will you conduct your illegal business?

I imagine your money is stored on your bank account, in a bank in UEE space. Let's say you are aboard a totally super secret asteroid pirate base, and wanna buy some highly illegal goods. Will you just transfer the money through your smartwatch, sorry, mobiglass like you do in a proper shop? Does every Pirate have a legitimate bank account as well, and the authorities don't know or do anything about it? Wouldn't the transaction from your mobiglass to the bank get tracked, so every time a transaction happens at the super secret pirate base, it reveals your location as well? How would it even have connection to the "network"?
I dunno about you, but after probably spending ages trying to find the secret pirate base, and probably having shat my pants navigating the dangerous environments it's hiding in, I would find it kind of a let down to just use my mobiglass payment as normal for those highly illegal goods.
Or, if I forgot to take cash with me, and had to go back to find an ATM, it would annoy me to no end!
So my whole "cash for illegal trades" thing could get real messy and annoying real fast, just like it would in real life.
Realistic, but not necessarily fun.

TLDR:
Would it be a reasonable gameplay element, in the name of realism, to make the player take out some cash from an ATM on a civilized world, so later he can make an illegal trade at a pirate base? Would this get annoying, or be the flavoring / "extra price to pay" for illegal transactions?
As for me, I would like it, but it all depends on how hard would it be to find an ATM nearby...
Where does realism for immersions sake end, and turns into annoying gameplay loop?

 

[Sraika]

This is what I would find to be a nice little extra "flavor" thing to increase immersion, if they did it once every 50-100 transactions or something, but it would be really annoying if they did it all the time. I really like the idea, but there are no machines that use paper receipts in the 'verse it seems.


This got me thinking about a realism thing, and please do correct me if I missed something about this, but I can't recall any devs mentioning it: there is no cash in the game, right? Or is there? If there isn't any, how will you conduct your illegal business?

I imagine your money is stored on your bank account, in a bank in UEE space. Let's say you are aboard a totally super secret asteroid pirate base, and wanna buy some highly illegal goods. Will you just transfer the money through your smartwatch, sorry, mobiglass like you do in a proper shop? Does every Pirate have a legitimate bank account as well, and the authorities don't know or do anything about it? Wouldn't the transaction from your mobiglass to the bank get tracked, so every time a transaction happens at the super secret pirate base, it reveals your location as well? How would it even have connection to the "network"?
I dunno about you, but after probably spending ages trying to find the secret pirate base, and probably having shat my pants navigating the dangerous environments it's hiding in, I would find it kind of a let down to just use my mobiglass payment as normal for those highly illegal goods.
Or, if I forgot to take cash with me, and had to go back to find an ATM, it would annoy me to no end!
So my whole "cash for illegal trades" thing could get real messy and annoying real fast, just like it would in real life.
Realistic, but not necessarily fun.

TLDR:
Would it be a reasonable gameplay element, in the name of realism, to make the player take out some cash from an ATM on a civilized world, so later he can make an illegal trade at a pirate base? Would this get annoying, or be the flavoring / "extra price to pay" for illegal transactions?
As for me, I would like it, but it all depends on how hard would it be to find an ATM nearby...
Where does realism for immersions sake end, and turns into annoying gameplay loop?

It's a cool idea, though it would definitely be tedious. Luckily, they've probably got a handwave to take care of that, like 'spoofed credit chips' or something.

 

[Vavrik]

My point is: exaggerated realism in PC games is only fun on paper. What do you think? Should realism in a video game ever be more important than fun and utility?

I totally agree, exaggerated realism is a huge problem in many "realistic" games, but there are ways to approach realism that aren't annoying at all, and can be a lot of fun. This is true especially in Sci Fi games, where you can simply invent a technology to get yourself out of a box. It depends on developer imagination, and you can usually tell where their imagination failed.

 

[maynard]

when I compare the babes that populate most video games with the women I see at my local Wal-Mart

I come down on the side of limiting realism in my game world

 

[supitza]

Yeah, one of the things that concern me is the implementation of realism. It's fun and realistic to press 5 buttons when getting into a ship.
I agree that you need to be able to enter the ship without powering it up (for stealth reasons) or powering the engine but not the onboard computer or whatever, but when you're entering your ship for the 50th time, you'll curse at all the time you lose doing the same, repetitive action.
And again with the KCD comparison: it's fun to bathe and keep your character clean; it's not fun to do it once every 2 game days and spend 10 minutes doing it (considering the time you're riding your horse to and from the baths).

EDIT: I was just thinking about WoW and its huge success. While it has nothing to do with realism, my opinion is that a huge part of WoW's success is the ease of use. Everything you want is a click away. And when you're playing the same game for hours and hours at a time, you really come to appreciate doing things fast.

 

[Radegast74]

Here's my #1 pet peeve with Star Citizen --> Dirty Windshields!

I thought it was CR having some weird idea, but NO! It actually is a real thing!
https://space.stackexchange.com/questions/25262/what-is-that-haze-on-starmans-windshield

Can we agree that, while it is realistic, I'd much rather prefer to believe we will have developed a better coating by the 2900's?
#TooMuchRealism

 

[Greengiant506]

Here's my #1 pet peeve with Star Citizen --> Dirty Windshields!

I thought it was CR having some weird idea, but NO! It actually is a real thing!
https://space.stackexchange.com/questions/25262/what-is-that-haze-on-starmans-windshield

Can we agree that, while it is realistic, I'd much rather prefer to believe we will have developed a better coating by the 2900's?
#TooMuchRealism

Its already in the works actually, "transparent aluminum" is the material planned to replace the windows on future spacecraft (and possibly upgrade the ISS) to prevent the scratching and fogging they are seeing happening to the glass with polymer(?) coating that is being used currently.
As this is an equal opportunity world, to those living on islands, the material referenced above is "transparent aluminium".

 

[supitza]

Here's my #1 pet peeve with Star Citizen --> Dirty Windshields!

I thought it was CR having some weird idea, but NO! It actually is a real thing!
https://space.stackexchange.com/questions/25262/what-is-that-haze-on-starmans-windshield

Can we agree that, while it is realistic, I'd much rather prefer to believe we will have developed a better coating by the 2900's?
#TooMuchRealism

On the same note, I have an issue with artificially crippling a ship for balance: for example, the Freelancer and the Starfarer. They gave them a shit view from the cockpit because they would've been too awesome if they had good visibility.
The Carrack has a great view and can also shield its cockpit (for the same reasons as the Starfarer - not getting destroyed in dangerous conditions).

 

[Vavrik]

I don't know if anyone here has played flight simulator games, but by and large they have a way of incorporating realism that is pretty interesting. If you want fidelity, you can run through the entire checklist for starting a 737, or you can simply hit E (or whatever the key is) and the plane will automatically start. Choice prevents players from experiencing "eyeball gouging" startup routines. They can elect to have fidelity or not.

The problem is, at least to me, if you remove reality for the sake of game play in every instance, what you end up with is essentially a fun, but very unrealistic cartoon. We already have fun but unrealistic cartoon space games though.

Some things in SC i am very disappointed in, because they are totally unrealistic. Item 2.0, for example. So we need a yellow highlight around every button, because why? We don't know how to push buttons? How come I have to right click on something, then move my mouse to the menu and pick the only possible action from the menu. If I clicked on it and didn't intend to, I'll eventually learn not to click on it. But if it has only one action then a click should be enough to do what it's supposed to do. It's 2948 for heaven's sake. Did we forgot to push buttons marked "OPEN" to open doors?

 

[supitza]

The problem is, at least to me, if you remove reality for the sake of game play in every instance, what you end up with is essentially a fun, but very unrealistic cartoon. We already have fun but unrealistic cartoon space games though.

There's a fine line between simplifying something and making it easy to use.

Some things in SC i am very disappointed in, because they are totally unrealistic. Item 2.0, for example. So we need a yellow highlight around every button, because why? We don't know how to push buttons? How come I have to right click on something, then move my mouse to the menu and pick the only possible action from the menu. If I clicked on it and didn't intend to, I'll eventually learn not to click on it. But if it has only one action then a click should be enough to do what it's supposed to do. It's 2948 for heaven's sake. Did we forgot to push buttons marked "OPEN" to open doors?

We need that yellow highlight in order to tell which objects in the environment we can interact with. Yes, it's very obvious for a button, but imagine a shelf with 10 boxes on it of witch a single box is interactable, the rest are decor.
With the right click single option I kind of agree; I imagine it works like that so you don't accidentally interact with an object you didn't want (like the Herald ladder or the Aurora doors, iirc) .

 

[CrudeSasquatch]

Immersion breaking?! Sleeeeep? Never!

View: https://youtu.be/Zf4MoLO2yQU