Coronavirus COVID-19 Thread

Bambooza

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I would not be writing in this thread if I wasn't trying to convince people of the seriousness of COVID-19, and urging them to take active steps. The fact that you and others have politicized this whole topic means I have been extra careful to just present unedited facts, and hope that people can draw the appropriate conclusions.
I would disagree with the politicized of the whole thread. While there has been some politicization of the thread, some nation thumping/bragging for the most part the thread has been a wealth of information discussion and fact sharing. On a whole I am honestly surprised given virus and deaths are scary things that tend to enact irrational fears much like those onboard a plan that is flying through mild turbulence. They know that the probability of a airplane crash is astronomical small but it does not change the current fear response and what responses it triggers. As of this writing there has been 1.26 Million reported deaths from COVID-19 compared to Cardiovascular disease claiming 17.9 million world wide per year. While the first gets world wide ongoing attention while the later being far more deadly is background noise. While I am not saying catching and dying from COVID-19 is akin to flying on a plane vs dying from Cardiovascular disease being akin to driving in a Car, the point is the fear response we are seeing in regards to the worlds reaction to COVID-19 is similar and in many ways that fear is being played out in these threads. While far more muted then the media it is still present in all its forms being a reflection of the core values of the individual and how they handle stressful situations. As much as we would like the world to simply follow our direction based upon what we so clearly see as the answer, this virus more then anything in my life time has shown how much culture influences reactions.

So yes there is some politicization of the thread when it comes to discussions on how best to handle a common threat especially when mix in heighten stress and fear that get focused on those who disagree with our clear solution with out remembering they too see a different part and have a clear solution based upon what they see. Even our posting of facts is tainted with this as we cherry pick supporting evidence to prop up our solution.

We are all in this together, no matter what the current threat is.
 
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NaffNaffBobFace

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COVID Catharsis Corner - reports from around the world from today, Monday 9th of November:

- World: 50,591,307 confirmed cases and 1,258,817 confirmed deaths.

- World: Pfizer/BioNTech Vaccine trials indicate a 90% effective rate. World reacts with hope however cautious optimism has been recommended - the treatment is still at trial and the doses themselves need to be stored at -80 degrees Celsius (-112 Fahrenheit), presenting logistical difficulties in distribution. Moves made to apply for emergency approval legislation to allow its release for mass inoculation.

- World: Around a dozen other vaccines in same stage of testing as this one, with over a hundred others under way.

- US: President Elect Biden names his Coronavirus task force team which will be put in place at the point he takes office "The challenge before us right now is still immense and growing. Although I'm not in office yet I'm just laying out what we expect to do and hope some of it can be done between now and the time I'm sworn in."

- UK: England recorded no significant increase in suicides during the first wave and lockdown in the spring. The first three months of the year saw an average of 84 per month, with the following five months seeing only a very slight uplift with an average of 85.4. The statistics are welcome following findings that suicidal thoughts were up in Wave 1, however mental health charities warn we should remain on our guard "The worry for us in mental health is the impact of a serious economic downturn."

- France: Students protesting schools remaining open during lockdown clash with police.

- Hungary: Announces partial lockdown to counter rising cases.

- Italy: Doctors warn 10,000 will die in the next month unless a national lockdown is imposed immediately.

- Ukraine: President tests positive for COVID-19 "There are no lucky people for whom #COVID19 does not pose a threat." he tweeted.

- Russia: Sees record high new daily cases.

- Belgium: Hospital admissions have peaked and are now in decline, leading to hopes the country has passed its second wave.

- Iran: Sees record high new daily cases.
 
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Aramsolari

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- World: Pfizer/BioNTech Vaccine trials indicate a 90% effective rate. World reacts with hope however cautious optimism has been recommended - the treatment is still at trial and the doses themselves need to be stored at -80 degrees Celsius (-112 Fahrenheit), presenting logistical difficulties in distribution. Moves made to apply for emergency approval legislation to allow its release for mass inoculation.
Yeah this Pfizer vaccine sounds like it has a lot of potential. I'm cautiously optimistic and hope that the authorities don't rush trials and testing before it's ready. I also hope that the vaccine isn't too expensive to produce and administer. Mass inoculations only work when you have....well the masses get it.
 
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NaffNaffBobFace

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Yeah this Pfizer vaccine sounds like it has a lot of potential. I'm cautiously optimistic and hope that the authorities don't rush trials and testing before it's ready. I also hope that the vaccine isn't too expensive to produce and administer. Mass inoculations only work when you have....well the masses get it.
I think the crux of this ones success will be the viability of traveling with it. 90% is a fantastic effectiveness, but a country will need a decent infrastructure to be able to keep it under the required temperature control - this won't be one they can take vials of in to the distant villages of Africa - or even the frozen tundra of the Arctic. A local temperature of minus 25 Celsius is cold, but not cold enough for a dose to remain viable... but off the success of this initial success will come advancements in stability and viability I'm sure...

I see this one as the one they would put in people in cities and other high density places where they will need a super high effectiveness and lots of people can be inoculated close to the supercool industrial freezers they'll need for them.

Other vaccine candidates may (or may not!) have lower effective rate, but may be easier to move around so even with a vaccine like the ones produced for the Flu which have about a 60% effectiveness, a place where people rarely cross paths anyway like remote villages may not need a very effective candidate to do as good a job as the one which needs the infrastructure to keep it viable.

Fingers crossed, not time to relax and take ones mask off yet, but hopeful.
 
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Aramsolari

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Other vaccine candidates may (or may not!) have lower effective rate, but may be easier to move around so even with a vaccine like the ones produced for the Flu which have about a 60% effectiveness, a place where people rarely cross paths anyway like remote villages may not need a very effective candidate to do as good a job as the one which needs the infrastructure to keep it viable.
Yeah I'm hoping in time there will be multiple pharmaceutical companies coming out with their versions of a vaccine. I read somewhere that the race for a vaccine is like the Manhattan Project or the Space Race. One company will reach it first and eventually others will get there as well, it's just a matter of time.

I'll like to see a Covid vaccine eventually be widespread and reach 'generic' status. You can't really clamp down on the virus until you have widespread and affordable vaccination similar to what we have for Polio and Smallpox.
 
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Michael

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Yeah this Pfizer vaccine sounds like it has a lot of potential. I'm cautiously optimistic and hope that the authorities don't rush trials and testing before it's ready. I also hope that the vaccine isn't too expensive to produce and administer. Mass inoculations only work when you have....well the masses get it.
Talked to some pharma auditor:
It is rushed.

Its a first of its kind treatment. To get proper data usally you would research 10 years for that kind of vaccine.
There are some studies ofc supporting the safety of the general idea.

In theory its safer than normal vaccine. But there is not that much data (yet)

Instead of using inactivated real viruses the new idea is that your body produces the necessery parts of the virus shell. So you inject the RNA into the cells and let your body produce it. This will be presented to your immune system and produce Antibodys and T-Cells.
If i remember right the whole idea is ~10 years old. (So there is a fairly good understanding)

The "infected body cells" will be reabsorbed after some time.

Question is here: other RNA/DNA might be accidently injected into your body cells

Biontech didn't really researched won vaccines till january / february.
 
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NaffNaffBobFace

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Talked to some pharma auditor:
It is rushed.

Its a first of its kind treatment. To get proper data usally you would research 10 years for that kind of vaccine.
There are some studies ofc supporting the safety of the general idea.

In theory its safer than normal vaccine. But there is not that much data (yet)

Instead of using inactivated real viruses the new idea is that your body produces the necessery parts of the virus shell. So you inject the RNA into the cells and let your body produce it. This will be presented to your immune system and produce Antibodys and T-Cells.
If i remember right the whole idea is ~10 years old. (So there is a fairly good understanding)

The "infected body cells" will be reabsorbed after some time.

Question is here: other RNA/DNA might be accidently injected into your body cells

Biontech didn't really researched won vaccines till january / february.
That explains the whole 'scientific breakthrough' thing that was bing said, many thanks that's really helpful. Still verging on cautious optimism but useful to see the new technique for what it is :-)
 
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Bambooza

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Talked to some pharma auditor:
It is rushed.

Its a first of its kind treatment. To get proper data usally you would research 10 years for that kind of vaccine.
There are some studies ofc supporting the safety of the general idea.

In theory its safer than normal vaccine. But there is not that much data (yet)

Instead of using inactivated real viruses the new idea is that your body produces the necessery parts of the virus shell. So you inject the RNA into the cells and let your body produce it. This will be presented to your immune system and produce Antibodys and T-Cells.
If i remember right the whole idea is ~10 years old. (So there is a fairly good understanding)

The "infected body cells" will be reabsorbed after some time.

Question is here: other RNA/DNA might be accidently injected into your body cells

Biontech didn't really researched won vaccines till january / february.
For those who are interested in a good jumping off point for understanding RNA vaccine.



BioNTech which is a German biotechnology company has been working on RNA treatments of RNA therapeutics for targeted treatment of cancer and infectious diseases. In 2008 Pifzer partnered with them to advance mRNA-based flu vaccines with Pfizer assuming responsibility for clinical development and commercialization.

The biggest concern I have as of this moment is mRNA vaccines are still very new and have not yet past any phase 1 clinical trials. Up to this moment most studies have been on targeted treatment of cancer with promising results. The biggest concern is we do not know if they have an unintended effects as mentioned in https://www.phgfoundation.org/briefing/rna-vaccines
Unintended effects: the mRNA strand in the vaccine may elicit an unintended immune reaction. To minimise this the mRNA vaccine sequences are designed to mimic those produced by mammalian cells.
There is a risk that those injected with the vaccine can trigger an auto immune disorder which can lead to things like Rheumatoid Arthritis or Lupus.

Which is why so few medical treatments move from Phase I to Phase IV.

Phases of a Trial - Treatment| Lupus Clinical Trials

Just to be clear I am not advocating to refuse the vaccine just know the risks as it is a rushed product that has lots of unknowns when applied to a large group. The question is the vaccines being developed have unknown risks and so its hard to say which one is worse.

As for the side effects of vaccines I have personally seen then as my middle child started to present with seizures two days after her first round of vaccines which sporadically continued on until she was three. While there is no definitive proof after all of the brain scans, blood works there is strong correlation that the vaccine triggered a underlining medical condition. With that being said the outcome while not ideal is far better then not taking the vaccine and taking the risk of her contracting and suffering through one of the many childhood diseases which lead to far worse medical conditions or death.
 

NaffNaffBobFace

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COVID Catharsis Corner - Reports from around the world from today, Tuesday 10th of November:

- World: 51,211,972 confirmed cases and 1,267,780 confirmed deaths.

- World: Passes 51 million cases, we passed 50 million on Sunday meaning 1 million more cases in the last 2/3 days.

- Brazil: Trials of a Chinese Vaccine candidate suspended after a case of a "severe adverse" reaction.

- US: Biden implores citizens to wear masks indicating the simple action could save tens of thousands of lives.

- Europe: Death toll passes 300k.

- UK: Liverpool, and the mass population trial has by last count tested 23,170, finding 154 active carriers. The population of Liverpool is about 466k so taking those numbers and rounding up there may still be over 3k active cases in the city... time, and cooperation of the locals in allowing themselves to be tested, will tell.

- UK: Following trial startup in Liverpool this week, mass testing to be rolled out to over 60 areas in the UK with the intent to test 10%+ of those communities each week with the rapid Lateral Flow tests which may be less accurate but are much faster and able to be used in the home.

- France: Teachers union hold a one day strike calling for better COVID protections as schools stay open while the country locks down.

- China: To disinfect packaging of all frozen food imports after cases in port workers linked to contaminated goods.

- Denmark: Government admits it had no legal grounds to order mass culling of mink animals which have been harboring a mutated version of COVID. They are now working on legislation.

- UK: Unemployment rate rises as businesses say Furlough 80% wage scheme extension came too late to hold on to employees they did not know they could afford to keep on.

- UK: Sees 532 deaths reported in 24 hours, the highest rate since May.

- Italy: Sees 580 deaths reported in 24 hours, the highest since mid April.

- Panama: Outbreak in a prison infects 390 inmates - 75% of the population of the facility.

- Norway/Sweden: Norway calls in home guard to help police patrol boarder as Sweden records 15k additional cases in the five days since Friday.
 

Aramsolari

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So as an update from here, people are becoming quite optimistic

People shouldn't let their guard down though. British Columbia was doing really well in the summer. Now we're getting over 500+ new cases a day. Most of the transmission is community driven as people have gone lax in social distancing and PPE wearing. I don't blame people as we're going through what academics coin Pandemic fatigue. Still....I hope people hang in a bit more and not give in yet.
 

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People shouldn't let their guard down though. British Columbia was doing really well in the summer. Now we're getting over 500+ new cases a day. Most of the transmission is community driven as people have gone lax in social distancing and PPE wearing. I don't blame people as we're going through what academics coin Pandemic fatigue. Still....I hope people hang in a bit more and not give in yet.
Masks are still mandatory and there are still restrictions on how many people can be in one location. It's helping.
 

Aramsolari

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Masks are still mandatory and there are still restrictions on how many people can be in one location. It's helping.
Yeah for some whacky reason masks aren't mandatory in this province yet. Most bigger businesses do have mandatory mask policies to get in. That said, many people just take their masks off the moment they're through the entrance lol.
 

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First and foremost, ColdDog, most of us here genuinely have no idea what you're going on about.
Stick figure time >
A virus = a micro organism --> that micro organism has killed and made extinct numerous species over the world 4 BILLION year history.
A virus --> disease = a virus like all living organisms need to feed, and in this case it feeds on humans, like the common cold.
A virus --> disease --> changes over time = just like humans come from Apes, they adapt to their environment.
A virus --> disease --> changes over time --> exists for the ages = viruses will never go away. They are a part of the ecosystem just like air or carbon.

You latch onto several topics at the same time and throw in ad hominem personal attacks to boot.
Personal Attacks... ok, sorry I said @Aramsolari -- Not... I never attacked you.

Your tone is combative, angry and has been for awhile.
Maybe, but I am sorry you melt when I speak.

NaffNaff isn't the only one concerned about you.
Don't worry about me... the more authoritarian the world gets, the more combative people get.

I've had my disagreements with you as well but I do care about your well being and really believe you need to take a break from this topic.
The virus is not going away... and I appreciate the thoughts.

This is primarily a thread about Covid19 and ideally shouldn't deviate too much. Members like NaffNaff drop in his daily updates on Covid19 news (which I genuinely appreciate), we discuss a bit about it, and then we move on. I occasionally drop in comments about Covid19 at my workplace and my province/city. Nothing here is meant to be taken too seriously as we're all just a bunch of gaming nerds. From what I can tell, you went way off tangent and delved into global poverty(?), how we don't contribute to charity (??), and how we're elitist (???). You accuse us of being uncompassionate and privileged. You adopt a stance of victim hood, something I find puzzling. Out of curiosity I went back several threads just to figure out what was it we said that ticked you off and I couldn't find anything. I implore you to identify the posts that you deem offensive, perhaps we can then rectify them.
I will always stand by assertion that the Northern Hemisphere only gives a shit about this virus is because it is in our back yard. Poverty exists with or without a virus, and I am simply saying get your priorities correct.

To end it off, I hope all of us are doing alright and I sincerely hope most of us take some time off to simply......breath.
You are totally correct.

If you remember anything that I write - is to check your perspective. Ask yourself, what would someone do who does not have socialized medicine, a science infrastructure, or an economy to weather this. Time is the healer of all wounds but viruses will be here long after we are just another extinct species.

I can imagine you folks this I am totally bonkers about the election and that is leading me to push harder on this thread. Actually, that is not correct, presidents come and go, so do politicians, but viruses in one form or other will be here to stay. So no, I am not losing my mind, I am just continuing to challenge the narrative because the Socratic Method is imperative for a enlightened society.
 

August

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Aramsolari

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Personal Attacks... ok, sorry I said @Aramsolari -- Not... I never attacked you.
'Coughs' Ahem...
"So, you know what really pisses me off about this thread? No, its I am not a denier. It is that many of the people on this thread only give a fuck about themselves."
Damn you should have identified which people on this thread you were talking about. Since I participated in this thread, my special snowflake self thought you were talking about me. 😢

"Maybe, but I am sorry you melt when I speak."
Got me there. I'm a puddle on the floor. 🥴

I can imagine you folks this I am totally bonkers about the election and that is leading me to push harder on this thread. Actually, that is not correct, presidents come and go, so do politicians, but viruses in one form or other will be here to stay. So no, I am not losing my mind, I am just continuing to challenge the narrative because the Socratic Method is imperative for a enlightened society.
Nobody here mentioned the elections until you did. Hmm.

Anyway. I don't think any of us question whether this virus is here to stay or not. You're preaching to the choir here so I don't really know what you're harping on about.

We're simply saying that letting nature take it's course and let it run rampant ISN'T the way forward (I assume that's what you're advocating?). That's why we're talking about PPE, social distancing (when appropriate), and medical treatment (anti-virals, vaccines) as ways to mitigate the harm caused on our population. As far as I'm aware of, nobody here thinks we can 'control' this virus. That would be naive and arrogant.

And no...nobody wants another economic shutdown like what we saw in March as well. That's why we're all sacrificing a bit (by wearing PPE and social distancing) so our healthcare services aren't overwhelmed. The Covid ward at my partner's hospital is filling up again. I really don't want to see her go through the same hell that she did in April/May.

It's really for the greater good that we're asked to do what we do.

ggood.gif
 
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ColdDog

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We're simply saying that letting nature take it's course and let it run rampant ISN'T the way forward (I assume that's what you're advocating?).
No I am not advocating that. Months ago people thought the world was falling... then they locked down... then the world and economy was falling. No, I never said let it run rampant... be grateful 8 months into it we're starting to get traction. Nothing is perfect... the virus may mutate and the vaccine may become ineffective... maybe not. We do not know. We as humans, in 2020 are not so privileged to have any benefit over people in 1400 had with the exception of science advances. People die, and like it or not... a VIRUS is mother natures population control, always has been, is now, and always will be.

So, again, check your perspective.
 
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